Perk: EDITH - Your team gets full knowledge of the battlefield and 3 MCU Stark Combat Drones to aid you.
Deathhero61
Team:
Katara (3)
Neku (3)
Sponsor: Weasley's Wizard Wheezes
Perk: Weather in a Bottle - Allows your team to choose the weather on the battlefield. Options include heavy rain, thunderstorm, snow, strong winds, clouds, sun, or fog. Your team is immune to the negative weather effects.
Chosen Weather Condition: Thunderstorm / Heavy Rain
Tournament Rules
Video game and book characters get composite feats (as long as they remain the same point value).
Canon tie-in comics are allowed (as long as they remain the same point value).
Marvel characters are standard/base 616 versions. However, you can also choose characters from the Ultimate (Earth 1610) universe.
DC characters are Post-Crisis/Rebirth.
Everyone is in character and starts with their standard gear.
No character can be amped above a 4-point character.
Each team will get 1 full day of training together in order to get basic knowledge on each other and ensure decent teamwork. Every character on the team will also get an ear piece in order to stay in contact during the mission.
There will be 14 corporate sponsors, and each one can only be picked once. Once a sponsor has been chosen by a participant, it cannot be chosen by anyone else. Each sponsor will have 3 perk choices, and you may only choose one perk for each round. If you make it to the next round, you can change your perk.
Every battlefield will involve some amount of fodder, such as civilians and/or guards. They can be ignored, killed, manipulated, etc.
You must have completed a CaV/tournament or have over 500 posts in order to join. If you do not intend to see this tournament through to the end, please do not join.
Banned Powers/Abilities
Reality Warping
Time Manipulation
Space Manipulation
Luck Manipulation
Power Copying/Stealing
Speed Stealing
Precognition (things like Spider-Sense are fine)
Immortality
Instant-Kill attacks
Internal Attacks
Permanent Intangibility
Cloning
Any other types of powers/abilities that I deem as overpowered or unfair
Limits
BFR, intangibility, teleporting, and transmutation as offensive attacks cannot be used on the opposing team's characters but can be used against summons, fodder, and gear.
Teleportation/portals are limited to line of sight, and cannot be used to teleport within 50 feet of the mission's objective.
Telekinesis and similar abilities cannot be directly used on the bodies of the opposing team but can be used on their gear, or against summons and fodder. TK blasts against the opposing team are allowed.
Telekinesis and similar abilities are limited based on the lifting strength of each point value.
Telepathy: mind reading and telepathic communication are allowed on everyone on the battlefield. Mind control, illusions, and other psychic attacks can only be used on summons and fodder. This also applies to soul abilities, pheromones, gas, and magic-based telepathy as well.
Gear and hax must remain street-level.
Summons made by your own characters cannot be better than 1-point characters. You cannot have more than 5 summons for the entire mission.
Regeneration is limited to 616 Wolverine level, as in your character cannot have a healing factor that is better than Wolverine's and they must be able to be knocked out.
Invisibility is allowed but it can only affect the sense of sight.
Intangibility can only be used for 10 seconds at a time, with the user then being forced into a tangible state for 5 seconds before being able to go intangible again.
If you are unsure about any of the rules/limits, please ask! It is better to ask in advance than to risk being disqualified from going above the limits or breaking rules.
Characters
You have 6 points to spend on characters in order to form your team.
Essentially, 1-point characters are low-street, 2 and 3-point characters are mid-street, and 4-point characters are high street.
The criteria for each category is the maximum. If the criteria is wall level, then the character cannot exceed wall level but can be below wall level. If a character you want has the strength and durability of a 1-pointer, but the speed of a 3-pointer, they would cost 3 points.
Wall level refers to a standard brick wall. House level refers to a standard house. Small building level refers to a small building with 3-4 stories. Building level refers to a building with 5-8 stories, i.e. NOT a skyscraper.
Speed includes movement, reaction, combat, and attack speeds. A 4-pointer's speed cannot be hypersonic, i.e. higher than Mach 5.
For durability, a single strike that can destroy the object of that level should be enough to seriously harm your character. A 4-pointer must still be capable of being harmed by armour-piercing rounds or high-caliber rounds such as from long-range rifles, magnums, and heavy machine guns.
A bloodlusted Carnage should be able to solo your entire team in a random encounter under the limits/rules of this tournament, without taking any sponsor perks into consideration.
Low Street Level (1 point)
Striking Strength: Wall Level (busting a wall in 1-2 strikes)
Lifting Strength: 1 Ton
Durability: Wall Level
Speed: Arrow-Timing or Aim-Dodging (subsonic, under Mach 1)
Energy Projection: Wall Level
If your character can bullet-time, even handgun bullets, they are too fast for 1 point.
Low-Mid Street Level (2 points)
Striking Strength: House Level (busting a house in a few strikes)
If you want to be tagged to vote at the end, comment "T4V"
Vote for whoever was the best debater, or who convinced you more, not for which team you think would win.
Make sure to provide reasoning for your vote.
Votes based on obvious character bias will not be counted.
Be respectful, honourable, and civil.
Posting Rules
3 posts each
7 days to post
If you need an extension, let me know before the 7 days are up and I will allow you a 3-day extension (for a total of 10 days). Only one extension per round will be allowed.
Failure to post on time will result in disqualification and an automatic victory for your opponent.
Mission: Protect the VIP
Team A (Viking) must protect their VIP. Team B (Death) must eliminate the VIP. The VIP is a Navy Seal soldier equipped with a Kevlar vest, bulletproof helmet, assault rifle, handgun, and combat knife.
There are 15 civilians and 20 guards spread throughout the map. The guards are on high alert and will shoot either team on sight. Each guard is a trained Navy Seal equipped with an assault rifle and combat knife. Civilians will not attack, but they will scream and alert nearby guards if they feel threatened or are attacked. There are also eight security cameras around the map. Being caught in a hostile act by a security camera will alert all the guards. All the cameras are on street-level.
Team A Objective: Protect the VIP (eliminate enemy team)
Team B Objective: Eliminate the VIP (kill the VIP or kill the enemy team and then the VIP)
Please PM me your perk choice. I'll update the thread once you both do so and then you can get started. If you don't care about your opponent seeing what perk you pick, you can just post it here instead.
Feel free to also post a collage of your team and I will add it to the OP.
Civilians will not attack, but they will scream and alert nearby guards if they feel threatened or are attacked. There are also eight security cameras around the map. Being caught in a hostile act by a security camera will alert all the guards. All the cameras are on street-level.
I was gonna ask this in PM, but I think it will be interesting if we both know this. Will my team be known by their faces?
Civilians will not attack, but they will scream and alert nearby guards if they feel threatened or are attacked. There are also eight security cameras around the map. Being caught in a hostile act by a security camera will alert all the guards. All the cameras are on street-level.
I was gonna ask this in PM, but I think it will be interesting if we both know this. Will my team be known by their faces?
Yes, in the sense that any characters that aren't civilians/guards will automatically be identified as trespassers. So it isn't by knowing your faces, it's by not recognizing your faces.
Before getting into any details about my perk and plans for this round, let me just give an introduction about the ability of each member of my team (relevant to their plans) for the sake of anyone that doesn't know about them already. So, without further ado...
The Elder God:
Raiden, the god of thunder, comes from the famous Mortal Kombat universe (The version I am using here is from the movie version of MK released in 2021) which consists of a huge list of martial artists with special abilities tied to them. Along with being an expert martial artist, Raiden's chief abilities are based on lightning. He has demonstrated the capability to:
Avatar Yangchen, hails from the globally loved franchise - Avatar: The Last Airbender. The World of Avatar consists of four nations, each centred around of a martial art that focusses on manipulation of one of the four elemental art - Air, Water, Earth and Fire. In such a world, only one person is capable of bending all four elements, the Avatar. The avatar is reincarnated after the death of the previous avatar in the avatar cycle. Yangchen comes in the long list of avatars and is the last air nomad avatar before Avatar Aang, the titular protagonist of the franchise. You can look at the brief overview of what she is capable and where she stands in the universe's bending pole. I'll be using most of her feats from the novels - The Dawn of Yangchen and The Legacy of Yangchen.
To put it blunt, Yangchen is amongst the strongest unenhanced characters in the avatar franchise to the point where she is stronger than the routine avatars that we see, including the likes of Aang, Korra, Wan or Kyoshi, only rivalled by the likes of Roku and Kuruk at their prime.
She fought an ancient warrior spirit - General Old Iron to a standstill for a whole night and eventually started gaining advantage (an extremely minor one) by dawn when she was able to knock down the spirit, weeks after her completion of training. The reason for the impressiveness of this showing is that, Aang and Toph together accepted that they wouldn't be able to do any damage to the spirit when Old Iron woke up centuries after Yangchen and Old Iron reached a truce. Aang and Toph are two benders who are dead equals to Katara - one of the two characters in my opposing team. The showing alone puts Yangchen's combative capability above Katara by a good level and if it ever comes to a duel between the two, there is only one way it can go - Yangchen's victory. The fight with Old Iron also triples up to show both her firebending capability and her endurance/durability.
The inferno she rained on Old Iron essentially knocked the spirit off balance - which is something less than a handful of benders would able to perform. Shooting the blast by creating it mid-air and not from her hands/legs/mouth also showcases her skill in the element, which would provide more options and not restrict her to simply shoot blasts which can be easily reacted by people here. Lastly, the amount of area she set on fire at the end of her battle is also a testament to her power. The flames weren't drawfed by the gigantic size of the spirit.
Hailing from the western air temple, Yangchen's native element is airbending and needless to say, her skill or power is unrivalled in it. She has showcased the ability to use her airbending to enhance her speed in combats and used it to evade combustion beams. Combustion beams are some of the fastest attacks in the world of bending breaking the sound barrier, as shown in this moment. The ability was first showcased by Avatar Aang in The Blue Spirit episode. Yangchen improvised on the same by performing it in actual combat.
Avatar: The Last Airbender - The Blue spirit
Her control with airbending is also showcased in the novels. Yangchen can passively read wind patterns to a point where she can actually know if there is a change in the landscape based on how wind flows in an area. Think of this as an extended and improvised version of the airbending hypersensory we saw in The Last Airbender and The Legend of Korra. While we have only seen airbenders sense movements that happen close to them based on wind flows in and around them, Yangchen does the same to tell if there is a clearing in her route while she was in the middle of a forest or if there were some other people hiding inside bushes. This is most probably due to the fact that, airbenders during the older days used to control air in a room to the point where flames stand still. So, the point I'm trying to make is, sneaking up on her in close quarters is virtually impossible [1, 2]. I don't think this is as good as Toph's seismic sense that runs 24*7 across large distances, but she can sense if you team or the soldiers come any where close to her.
Original Airbenders, Book - 3, The Legend of Korra
The next section with respect to her airbending would be how she seamlessly applies her airbending in combat to end battles way too quickly. This is one aspect where she outshines any other airbender we have seen. Unlike the usual ways, Yangchen uses her airbending by bending air too close to her opponents and uses it in ways that are similar to telekinesis, but not exactly that. The best examples would be when she moved Kavik away from the door by simply hand waving, pulling him back when he was trying to flee from the Blue Manse[1,2], thought of air spouting her opponent and restraines from not doing so due to the results of damage, blowing wind downwards and lastly, clenching her fists to throw a guy far away. There are few other examples, but I just feel it would be redundant. The closest example of the move would be Aang thrashing Zuko with his own bedsheet in book 1.
Finally, along with her superlative skill, Yangchen also is a scarily powerful airbender - She could blow channels of water away by merely screaming in the ocean, completely shield herself and her allies from a combustion bender who rivals CM in terms of power and also neutralize the said combustion bender's beams by creating a void sphere around his beam[1, 2, 3, 4]. Now, I don't know anything about Neku from your side, but if my understanding is correct, he seems to be particularly skilled with fire. I'll wait for you to tell more about him, but from the looks of it, Yangchen does have answers to his fire based on how she dealt with fire in her life.
Gellert Grindelwald, is one of the most dangerous wizards from Rowling's famous Harry Potter franchise. He was considered the most dangerous dark wizard of all time before Voldemort arrived in the scene, though I think Grindelwald is the more dangerous of the two, that discussion isn't for this thread at all. Grindelwald's reign of terror spanned across the globe and went to a point where Albus Dumbledore had no choice but to duel his old friend and beat him in a duel that spanned hours and was considered the best in history. All this information safely puts Grindelwald at the very of the wizarding hierarchy along with Albus and Tom Riddle. With that out of the way, this is a shield charm demonstrated by one of Grindelwald's followers, the shield was able to withstand a massive sustained assault from an obscurus, Grindelwald was effectively scale well above this and be capable of taking on power of this magnitude.
The wizarding world of Rowling is extremely vast, so going spell by spell is a virtually impossible task, especially for the tournament, which is why I will get into two of the more important sub sections that are very commonly used in duels and areas that Grindelwald's expertise is monumental.
Transfiguration:
Transfiguration is the art of transforming a target from one form to another, could be sentient or non-living target. By Rowling's own admission, it borders on molecular manipulation on a low level [source]. By WoG, Grindelwald's transfiguration surpasses that of most wizards we know of [source]. He managed to transfigure himself into another human which might be some of the toughest tasks with the art. With that out of the way, he has also demonstrated the ability on a lower level where he transformed reigns of a chariot into snakes to attack aurors. Beyond basic usage, transfiguration is also widely used by high tier wizards below the levels of big three in active combat as well. My favourite example is from Minerva's fight with Severus Snape in the Half Blood Prince. Snape and McGonagall (back and forth) transfigure fire into a serpent into smoke and finally change it to daggers. Now while both of these extremely brilliant wizards, they are not on the same ballpark of wizarding skill as Grindelwald. The reason for bringing up the transfiguration section is that wizards use it in combat when fighting someone who knows more than the usual stunners and Expelliarmus spells. Given the opponents here entirely masters of elemental arts, Grindelwald will be using some of his best guns in the arsenal. Beyond just transfiguring attacks, Grindelwald is also capable of powerful disillusionment to the point where he can conceal himself. Top Aurors like Moody disillusioned Harry to make him into a human chameleon of sorts ensuring no one sees him. But the wizards of Albus and Gellert's capability are capable of completely turning invisible, as described by Dumbledore himself.
Dark Arts and Fire magic:
It was always around the corner. While he is an expert in transfiguration, dark arts and pyro kinesis is truly where Grindelwald shines above anyone. He is capable of conjuring some of the most dangerous dark magic and use it in tandem with fire. His usage of the darker variation of the shield charm stands out as one of the most impressive displays in the wizarding world. Grindelwald creates a ring of fire, uses it to let his allies pass, disintegrates his enemies, even capable of killing wizards while they try to teleport away from the spot and then lets the fire grow larger to engulf the Lestrange Mausoleum and gain sentience of it's own and form three enormous flaming dragons. He could passively control the flames while shooting other offenses similar to how he killed Leta Lestrange. While this was not explicitly confirmed, the last part of the magic mirrors that of a fiendfyre curse, the most dangerous type of dark magic.
Fantastic Beasts - The Crimes of Grindelwald
Fiendfyre is essentially a dark form of fire that has it's own sentience and could grow and consume objects and living beings alike. It has the ability to take it's own forms and only the most skilled wizards like Bellatrix and Voldemort have demonstrated the ability to not let it loose and control it according to their will. Grindelwald being the most dangerous practitioner of dark magic, should be capable of controlling it if he uses it. The curse is extremely well known to the point that, even people like Hermione and Crabbe/Goyle have knowledge on the curse.
Harry Potter - Order of the Phoenix, The Battle of Hogwarts and Deathly Hogwarts - 2
The perk I have chosen for this round is E.D.I.T.H - The perk provides my side, full knowledge on the battlefield, including the locations where civilians and Navy Seals are located at. In addition to this, I get three combat drones manufactured by Stark Industries (MCU). The drones have multiple types of guns attached to them including regular guns, sonic guns, laser, flame thrower, mini explosives. They have cameras inside them which help my side to track any movements in the locations.
My side's objective is to ensure our V.I.P is safe from your side and we have to kill your team to advance. My side spawns inside a large castle, a building which Yangchen can actually bend because it's made of stone. Our plan is a five layered protection for the V.I.P inside the castle.
The first step is the disillusion charm which Grindelwald will use on the three combat drones and send them outside the castle right in the gates of the grounds to keep a watch on anyone coming in from outside.
Right after this, Raiden will create a shield to keep intruders away ,just the same way he did in the film. Once he does this, he teleports to the top of the castle to keep watch outside and will also be controlling where the drones are.
The third step is where Grindelwald uses a smaller variation of the protective enchantments - Protego Maxima, Fianto Duri and Repello Inimicum. These shield spells will kill any intruder on physical contact and are completely invisible to the opposition. Immediately, he disillusions the V.I.P and turns him invisible to everyone.
The final move would be a Protego Diabolica shield charm around himself and the V.I.P. Since Grindelwald controls flame, he would let his team pass through it unharmed and to add to it, Yangchen being a firebender can manipulate the flames to not hurt her.
This is the protection provided to the V.I.P who we need to protect. None of these protections take time to be casted. Each spell, defense, bending technique all are accomplished in seconds by wizards and benders, so my side will have enough time to pull all this before your side find out where we are located.
The next step is about how a fight itself will ensue once your team reaches the castle grounds. The moment your side gets to the castle, Raiden will know about it because he is surveying from the top and along with that, the drones that are invisible will send a signal to my side who will be keeping a track of the movements. The dust cloud will definitely catch attention of your team, but they will not know about the dual layers of shield that has been set up which would be the downfall, especially Grindelwald's one. By that time, the drones would already start firing based on Raiden's commands and could kill your team. It will definitely take something that is on par with what Credence (obscurus) did to break through the shield and that is without considering the invisible nature of the shield and the drones attacking your side. I don't see Katara doing this when she's simply restricted to rain as her source. I'll stop here, because I am not knowledgeable as much about Neku and I don't want to make assumptions of a possible fight without knowing properly about a character.
Neku suddenly awakes in a place unlike Shibuya. He takes the time to observe his surroundings when he suddenly hears a familiar voice: Mr. Hanekoma.
Neku: what's going on Mr. H
Hanekoma: Phones, you got caught up in a game no different than the reaper games you're used too. The rules seem a little different but its the same game. This time you're forced to fight against other people in a series of objectives or direct combat. You may end up on a team again but there are no pacts necessary here so the stakes are a little different.
Neku: I'm stuck in another one of these horrible games, and not a single familiar face.
Hanekoma: Just remember Phones, "The World Ends With You", that-
Neku: I know Mr. H, expand your horizons, expand your world, and trust your partner. I will not get stuck in this cycle of desperation and fighting again. I will beat this game!
Neku received a buzzing on his phone, following a sharp pain in his hand. His phone had a message that read the following:
" Meet up with your team, you will have an day to prepare and following that, you will have 600 minutes to defeat the enemy team, failure leads to erasure."
Neku turns around to see Hanekoma has disappeared, he runs to the site of where the battle will be, where he sees a rather beautiful woman adorned in a blue dress.
Will be using both the anime and games. The games are the primary source material so most of what I will be posting will be from there.
I'll never help you! Maybe living in your Shibuya WOULD be easier. Maybe. Except one problem- it wouldn't be Shibuya! I was never good with people. I covered my ears and blocked them out. But you know what? If I don't clash, I don't change. The world ends at my borders, and the best moments slip away. Shibuya's full of people waiting for those moments, when we clash together and find something new. Here in the UG, I clashed. I changed. And now I know- Shibuya should stay just as it is! - Neku Sakuraba
Have you ever wondered what happens after death? Well Neku definitely had a strange answer to that when forced into a life or death game in another plane of existence known as the Underground, where he was forced to accomplishes tasks and fight monsters in order to have a second chance at life. Neku went through this three times showing a particular level of imagination and talent above other players.
Neku specializes in psychokinesis and the usage of psychs, which take the form of pins that he can equip. This gives him access to numerous abilities. Which includes but isn't limited to
I'll mention more attack options as the battle goes on, but outside of that he has very niche pins as well that help overall against pretty much any opponent.
"Have you ever tried scanning them all? Its like having the radio on every channel all at once"a single channel would obviously refer to a single person in this context. This implies that the range of scanning is massive and can potentially encompass all of shibuya. At the very least, like the first time Neku scanned, it would cover a large city block of people and considering how small this map is, it would be pretty useful for tracking down enemies and taking positions into consideration, it could also tell us what people know about the situation up in the castle, and and where the VIP is.
As for stats, I will keep this as simple as possible, some of the gifs should give some ideas on stats, but I'll use a couple feats here to paint a picture. For one, Neku scales to Joshua(Sealed) and Beat(as a reaper) among other characters. Joshua while arguably at his weakest was able to react to bullets.
Reaper Beat was moving fast enough to create afterimages, you'll see it throughout the boss fight. And Neku can survive a fight against him and has fought stronger reapers. Also one of the fodder noises Neku fights is capable of moving at mach speeds.
Nice and simple. I'll cover other tools at his disposal throughout the debate and if necessary more of his feats and scaling, but this is mostly everything that matters.
Katara
Katara was the last waterbender of her tribe, due to the vicious and savage conquest of the fire nation. Katara's mother gave up her life, in order for Katara to thrive and for their tribe to thrive as well. She was integral to propping up the Avatar and teaching him waterbending, which helped Aang get one step closer to restoring balance to the world. Even in the following generations, Katara taught the second Avatar. Katara is probably the best waterbender in the verse, she's mastered all sub-bendings of the art, and is an absolute powerhouse when she has access to water.
Waterbending/Stats
I haven't made an organized post for an avatar character in years, and Katara isn't my usual cup of tea, so that being said, I'm going to keep the feats in one section so we can move on to strategy as soon as possible.
To start, Katara's raw power is insane, and with the weather conditions that will be on the map, there will practically be water everywhere. Which means the scale she can operate at can potentially be quite impressive, like when she pushed a warship away with a wave of water.
But feats like that require a large amount of water she won't necessarily have at hand, however a decent amount of water can yield similar results, like here where she uses a pillar of water to lift up then launch a pair of motor boats into a distant wall way across the village.
Or when she generates waves that smack into Huu and break his footing
And later even uses water blades that cut up his body.
I'm almost positive my opponent is going to post speed feats for Avatar, especially from the OG show, so I feel its a waste of time to actually post feats for speed, but to summarize, lightning bending is a sub-element of firebending, and many characters in the verse has avoided them. Electricity is generally at the same speed or much higher than your regular bullets. There are plenty of calcs you can look up, and its just factually true in general. Katara herself has reacted to Azula's amped lightning bending on multiple occasions, so there should hardly be a debate there as far as reflexes are concerned. Dodging it here.
And using waterbending to react to the attack in time. Which is insane given the gestures needed to waterbending.
And for good measure, you'll likely argue Combustion Man's attacks as supersonic, well thankfully, Katara has reacted to these attacks as well and has matched their power.
Objective, Strategy and Sponsor.
There are 15 civilians and 20 guards spread throughout the map. The guards are on high alert and will shoot either team on sight. Each guard is a trained Navy Seal equipped with an assault rifle and combat knife. Civilians will not attack, but they will scream and alert nearby guards if they feel threatened or are attacked. There are also eight security cameras around the map. Being caught in a hostile act by a security camera will alert all the guards. All the cameras are on street-level.
Our objective is to wipe out the VIP, which should be pretty straight forward to do given the conditions and Neku and Katara's abilities respectively. So how we will handle this is Neku will scan the thoughts of civilians and guards, which will simultaneously give us an idea on where everyone is positioned. Since the Cameras are only on the street level, that means the rooftops are still an option, and taking out guards have never been easier thanks to our Sponsor!
Weasley's Wizard Wheezes (Harry Potter)
Jinx-Off - Your team is immune to all forms of magic and telepathy.
Weather in a Bottle - Allows your team to choose the weather on the battlefield. Options include heavy rain, thunderstorm, snow, strong winds, clouds, sun, or fog. Your team is immune to the negative weather effects.
Firebolts - Three Firebolt broomsticks are supplied to your team to allow flight.
The weather will be heavy rain and thunderstorms. This heavily benefits my team due to Katara's insane levels of precision as a water bender. As I said before she not only mastered all sub-elements of waterbending, but she is quite frankly the best waterbender in the verse the same way Toph is the best earthbender. We get to see this all come to a head when she fights Hama after being trained by her.
What feats like this tells us is that with heavy rain it will be as if she's always around an ocean's worth of water. This gives her a massive level of potential as far as offense, and it gives her way too many options as far as how to handle pushing into the battle to reach the VIP. Neku and Katara at the start of the battle will jump up to a rooftop away from the cameras and Katara will use the rain to create a massive cloud of steam that will cover the battlefield. Before anyone can recover and gather their bearings, she will then proceed to flood the area. Given the scale she operates at and the weather conditions, she can flood the entire map of hanamura in a single move, taking out all the guards, that thankfully Neku would be able to point out thanks to his scanning of the area. By the time whoever else is left recovers, Neku and Katara will be traveling throughout the map, taking the high ground, anyone we run into should already be damp from both the rain and Katara's waterbending, and Katara could just flash freeze them in a single move courtesy of the setup she would have already started via steambending. This won't even need any big gestures either.
The biggest problems here as far as combat potential is Yangchen truth be told, but if Neku and Katara cause enough chaos on the battlefield and break formation, they can easily force members of your team to take a more offensive approach and break their formation as well.
Katara and Neku would be pretty close as far as their approach is concerned, but Katara is essentially the main distraction with Neku running support. Neku has enough tools to counter most of what your team is capable of and based off your strategy it wouldn't stop Katara from flooding the battlefield let alone the castle. In addition, because of how small this map is, Neku will already be able to scan everyone here. While we are on the subject, you kept mentioning the disillusion spells and what not. That will not work thanks to Neku's scanning, he can scan for Noise, which are essentially the invisible monsters he has to face in his world. Scanning allows him to detect them.
This is solid because Noise exists on another plane of existence entirely, meaning, your standard level of invisibility will not work here.
Meaning, Neku will have no problems detecting the drones, Neku will also have no problem seeing the wall of flames. Even then, Katara's flood and steambending would interact and clash with it making it more visible. Worse case scenario, Neku can just read the minds of the security guards or your team to decipher what the plan is and where the VIP is.
Now finally, to discuss the elephant in the room. Yangchen.
To put it blunt, Yangchen is amongst the strongest unenhanced characters in the avatar franchise to the point where she is stronger than the routine avatars that we see, including the likes of Aang, Korra, Wan or Kyoshi, only rivalled by the likes of Roku and Kuruk at their prime.
She fought an ancient warrior spirit - General Old Iron to a standstill for a whole night and eventually started gaining advantage (an extremely minor one) by dawn when she was able to knock down the spirit, weeks after her completion of training. The reason for the impressiveness of this showing is that, Aang and Toph together accepted that they wouldn't be able to do any damage to the spirit when Old Iron woke up centuries after Yangchen and Old Iron reached a truce. Aang and Toph are two benders who are dead equals to Katara - one of the two characters in my opposing team. The showing alone puts Yangchen's combative capability above Katara by a good level and if it ever comes to a duel between the two, there is only one way it can go - Yangchen's victory. The fight with Old Iron also triples up to show both her firebending capability and her endurance/durability.
The inferno she rained on Old Iron essentially knocked the spirit off balance - which is something less than a handful of benders would able to perform. Shooting the blast by creating it mid-air and not from her hands/legs/mouth also showcases her skill in the element, which would provide more options and not restrict her to simply shoot blasts which can be easily reacted by people here. Lastly, the amount of area she set on fire at the end of her battle is also a testament to her power. The flames weren't drawfed by the gigantic size of the spirit.
There are several problems with this. First of all, this implies she outperforms Aang in his Avatar State while in base, not needing the Avatar State at all. This is problematic because Avatar State level characters are definitely banned. However, let's assume this is all fair and stuff, lets properly analyze it. Because lowkey you are misconstruing what actually happened, or blowing it out of proportion to make it sound more impressive than it actually is.
"Aang and toph accepted that they wouldn't be able to do any damage to the spirit" Knocking down Old Iron is not the same as damaging him and the reason he couldn't be damaged was because of his iron armor, which is why Toph stepped in.
As soon as Toph helped stripped him of his armor as opposed to Aang and Old Iron being in a stalemate, AS Aang one shotted him as opposed to before when he had the armor and their fight was competitive.
So the most I am willing to give you is that Yangchen fought well against him without the avatar state, but to be perfectly fair, Toph and her students were able to use metal bending to strip him of his incredibly durable armor, and Katara while using the rain managed to block one of his strikes with her ice bending so its not like her performance really matters in the grand scheme of things, she has a lot of stamina, she can get a cookie and some tea for her rituals if she likes, and maybe a pat on the back for all I care, we have no idea how a drawn out fight between General Old Iron vs Katara, Toph or Aang would go since it got cut short courtesy of Toph helping Aang and the latter one shotting him with the Avatar State. Yangchen's fight with General Old Iron tells us less and less about how powerful she is when we add additional context to the fight. Yangchen has no metalbending, and Aang used the Avatar State while also having some access to Yangchen's knowledge and skills yet couldn't put General Old Iron down despite creating a golem his size and straight up brawling him with sheer power, its clear that nobody was putting him down unless they had a way around his armor. Meaning in the grand scheme of things this feat is worthless to bring up.
The showing alone puts Yangchen's combative capability above Katara by a good level and if it ever comes to a duel between the two, there is only one way it can go - Yangchen's victory. The fight with Old Iron also triples up to show both her firebending capability and her endurance/durability.
I wanna respond to this in particular. You haven't shown a single waterbending feat on par with any of Katara's, General Old Iron is your only source of comparison and quite frankly, its not good enough, Katara being able to block his attacks with her small ice bending constructs should already tell you everything we need to know about her potential, the only statement you could use to try to uplift Yangchen was to bring up a statement that Aang and Toph makes, which only further incriminates Yangchen as well since she couldn't dent General Old Iron either with her Avatar State just like Aang couldn't while having access to some of her knowledge and having knowledge on how their fight went down courtesy of straight up asking Yangchen.
Nobody outperformed each other as far as General Old Iron is concerned, so at best this just means that based off sheer feats this debate is still competitive.
Katara blocked his strikes, Toph and her students were able to strip him of his armor via metal bending. Neither Yangchen nor Aang were able to damage the spirit. If anything Katara and Yangchen have similar showings.
Lastly, the amount of area she set on fire at the end of her battle is also a testament to her power. The flames weren't drawfed by the gigantic size of the spirit.
Thankfully Katara has fantastic showings against firebenders, especially the likes of Azula, one of the best of her Era while she was amped by Sozin's Comet.
Given her feats with General Old Iron which you are hyping up, you shouldn't have any problem with my arguing that a master waterbender can intercept Yangchen's fire attacks. Not that's its necessary since Neku will be running support with barriers and shields on top of Katara's own personal defense.
I don't think this is as good as Toph's seismic sense that runs 24*7 across large distances, but she can sense if you team or the soldiers come any where close to her.
Regarding your senses. They are useful and impressive, but how detailed are they and what are their best feats? Even if it can detect us as we close in on your location, Neku can still read your mind and tell when you are going to act and what you plan on doing next so no matter what Neku can still get the jump on Yangchen and can at least help Katara land hits or prep a counterattack. In addition, the heavy rain and thunderstorms will make it much harder for the enemy team to hear us approach. The thunderstorms can potentially short circuit the drones or hit any of the guards or members of your team while not hindering us in the slightest.
The next step is about how a fight itself will ensue once your team reaches the castle grounds. The moment your side gets to the castle, Raiden will know about it because he is surveying from the top and along with that, the drones that are invisible will send a signal to my side who will be keeping a track of the movements.
All that does is make him a target, and courtesy of Neku the drones and his position will be made clear due to the range of his scanning ability. So Raiden would be a sitting duck if Neku decided to snipe him with one of his psychs. If Neku gets at a close enough range, he could just spawn an attack a 1 pointer like him wouldn't be able to react to since it would spawn right around him before he would see it coming, a 3 pointer bender with special senses, could avoid this, but not a 1 pointer like raiden, especially movie raiden who has little to no feats.
The dust cloud will definitely catch attention of your team, but they will not know about the dual layers of shield that has been set up which would be the downfall, especially Grindelwald's one. By that time, the drones would already start firing based on Raiden's commands and could kill your team.
Katara will be flooding portions of the map with steam and water to break formations, and once we get in range of the castle, Katara could easily just flood the area with steam and water more aggressively, to draw people out, there wouldn't be a need to just rush in when Katara has the means to drag everyone out and force a skirmish. Katara has the most potential for scale and power in this fight because it will be raining heavily, providing her with a constant source of water. Keep in mind, people like Hama who Katara surpassed was drawing water from everywhere to stack and amp her attacks. Look closely at that clip, she throws a water attack at Katara, then pulls more water from the trees and flowers, and then combines that with her currently traveling water attack. She has literally nothing but rain and trees covering the battlefield. Katara could already make ice constructs by pulling water out of the air just like Hama, so having the rain will essentially give her everything she needs to work with and the thunder storms.
Also I might as well ask given everything I stated so far, what feats does the Wizard's shields have that suggest it could take full power large scale waterbending from Katara? Because it might just get destroyed as a byproduct of Yangchen and Katara fighting for control of the battlefield.
Katara has solid enough feats and the scale to completely disrupt the battlefield
Neku can see through invisibility spells. Being a player means being able to interact on multiple planes. Scanning helps in that process, so he can see invisible Noise. A mere invisibility spell isn't enough to hide from Neku, and he could straight up just read everyone's minds and see what the enemy team has cooking up.
Yangchen isn't as crazy as a powerhouse as you are depicting and this fight is a lot more competitive than you think.
I got a good idea of what Neku is capable of, from what you have shown. With that said, I have some disagreements with your plan in this situation in this location.
Counters:
Flooding the area:
What feats like this tells us is that with heavy rain it will be as if she's always around an ocean's worth of water. This gives her a massive level of potential as far as offense, and it gives her way too many options as far as how to handle pushing into the battle to reach the VIP. Neku and Katara at the start of the battle will jump up to a rooftop away from the cameras andKatara will use the rain to create a massive cloud of steam that will cover the battlefield.Before anyone can recover and gather their bearings,she will then proceed to flood the area.
I have two problems here,
Flooding the area in this manner is completely impossible, covering in mist is possible, but flooding is not. Why? Because no amount of rain will give you enough amount of water to flood the place right at the start of the battle. Look at the case in real world, I takes few hours of torrential rainfall to flood an area because only then the amount of water needed to flood is available. Even look at the showing you posted in the Southern Raiders, the dome Katara forms is a thin film. That in no way is going to flood an entire location in this manner. If she needs to flood the map, she needs to bend lot more water than the one enough to just form a hollow one, otherwise, I don't see the water supply being enough to flood all the buildings and the streets. Few minutes of rain will only give you water that will barely reach the ankle. To flood the whole terrain in the manner you are talking about, you need to bring water from an external source -- something like a lake or a river. I will slightly go off topic here because I want to stress this enough because while Katara is the best waterbender in the franchise, she wouldn't be able to perform all her feats here because the amount of water from heavy rainfall isn't the same as the amount of water a lake, river or an ocean provides. The rain does give you an advantage in terms of the cover or spread of water since she can bend water from any angle due to the outpour, but the quantity of water at the start of the fight or few minutes into it isn't as high as what she will have with large bodies of water. Even that advantage is neutralized because my team will be inside a building, so any water Katara brings will be her bring from outside the castle and that wouldn't give her the same advantage that rain does. This isn't me doubting Katara's capability, rather the amount of water that comes through rainfall is simply not enough to achieve what you are saying.
Morality - There are several civilians here, Katara is not the type to actually harm civilians. In fact she even saved Fire nation civilians in The Painted Lady episode. She is not the type to go flood the whole city block when there are civilians in it.
Also, I want to note something else about rain, look at the dome she forms in the Southern raiders, she basically combines all the droplets of water to form a large dome. In a fight against someone of this tier like Yangchen, she would need to be quick enough with her bending. This is not to say Katara is slower or something, but the time it takes to combine water drops from a lot of points in space is always going to be longer than the time it would take to bend if all the water were in a single spot, even if it is only by fraction of a second longer. There is also another factor to consider that, fighting inside a castle (assuming they get past the barrier, which I will get into, later on) will further increase time for her bending by a fraction of a second. It's not going to take as much as it did when she bent water from outside the factory, but this will still not as fast as Katara bending water from a pond right in front of her. Both of these are very minor advantages that will actually stack up on helping my side.
With that out of the way, I can see her covering the place in mist perfectly fine. But our team has ways to deal with it.
Yangchen being a waterbender herself, has condensed cloud into water once [1], so she shouldn't have troubles dealing with mist here. She would definitely know it's someone else's doing and would be able to turn it into water. Her waterbending power rivals that of Katara herself - She was able to part the ocean near the coast, deep enough to reach corals - which would be roughly 40mts, The platform she stood on (distance between the two walls was twice her height). Now the length of the wall wasn't mentioned anywhere, but that doesn't take anything from how impressive the showing itself is. To be clearer, she didn't just create two tall walls of water, she was actively resisting the force from that part of the ocean that is in vicinity of the walls. The most impressive part of all this is that, she did this with minimal motions, without any signs of strain at all.
The Legacy of Yangchen - Primary Sources
That's also not the only way for her to deal with it. As you can see in the feat itself, Kavik mentions that Yangchen is powerful enough to blow away waves in the ocean with airbending to similar effect, a feat which I had brought up in my opener - She could blow channels of water away by merely screaming in the ocean. All of this simply means that it is perfectly within her capability to easily deal with Katara's waterbending with air, water or she could burrow herself underground with earthbending. I'll save the rest of Yangchen vs Katara for the end while replying my disagreements with the rest of your strategy.
This doesn't just stop at this point, Grindelwald also has his own ways of dealing with water, there are spells in HP to deal with water.
There's the drought charm which is capable of draining water from puddles and ponds, which looks a fair amount of water that Katara will be able to get in the location. Ron stated that it can't drain water from a large lakes, but a lake is larger than the amount of water we have in this place.
The impervius charm is known to repel water and Hermione helped Harry with this spell during a Quidditch match which happened during rain. She applied it on his glasses to ensure he isn't wet. This isn't going to be helpful against larger moves but in cases of steam freezes and small tier techniques, Grindelwald would be able to survive.
These are all very low end compared to Grindelwald who could simply vaporize water up with his fire magic like killed Aurors in his very first appearance.
Fantastic Beasts and Where to find them
Transfiguration also allows Grindelwald to vanish objects or turn them into something that he could use as an offense. Some of the common instances of transfiguration were Minerva turning smoke to daggers, Snape turning fire into a serpent, vanishing a serpent into air. He could simply deal with water by transfiguring it into something else or vanishing it.
thankfully Neku would be able to point out thanks to his scanning of the area. By the time whoever else is left recovers, Neku and Katara will be traveling throughout the map, taking the high ground
Based on what I get from the feat you posted about Neku regarding scanning he was doing it to people in a building, is there any feat where he could scan such a large area? Because otherwise I don't see how he is scanning the whole map to find us from the starting point. The starting distance where your team spawn and our team spawn are in two different streets entirely and I haven't seen anything about Neku's telepathic range that suggests he could find and pin point my team's location from where he spawns. Also, I'll try to address your point about him being capable of finding out the drones even if they are invisible, isn't he scanning people's minds in the feat you posted? If my understanding is correct, it's why he could know what everyone is thinking. I don't see how that will help him find out drones, which are basically technological and don't possess minds to be read and have their positions triangulated.
Coming to dealing with Neku's telepathy, wizarding world has a field of magic called Legilimency and Occulumency which simply put, are the abilities to read/access memories/mind and blocking any intruder from performing legilimency/mind reading. Grindelwald has demonstrated brilliance in occulumency, his most notable feats being
Blocking Queenie from reading his mind when he transfigured himself as Percival Graves. Queenie, unlike other/most wizards was a born legilimens and the art came to her extremely naturally. She was capable of reading minds passively, didn't need a wand, incantation to perform the spell and is also capable of reading minds from a distance. [1, 2, 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, 4, 5]. The second and fourth one were done when the target were not in her vicinity at all, this is a requirement for most wizards to perform the art, not Queenie - who Grindelwald was able to block from accessing his thoughts.
capable of lying to the most accomplished Legilimens in history (Lord Voldemort) [1, 2]. Voldemort was searching for the Elder Wand and went to Grindelwald's prison in Nurmengard, but Grindelwald was able to lie to Voldemort about the wands' whereabouts despite the fact that Dumbledore won it from him. This is such an enormous feat because the only other person who managed to lie to Voldemort was Snape.
With all that said, I think Grindelwald is perfectly capable of blocking his thoughts from any sort of intrusion from Neku based on whatever I've seen so far. One last point I wanted to bring up here is that, you mentioned Neku could find out where the VIP was based on scanning my team's minds. Casting the disillusionment charm on the VIP means the only one who knows the VIP's location is Grindelwald, who is capable of shielding the VIP from any harm.
Now finally, to discuss the elephant in the room. Yangchen.
It's Grindelwald, to be honest. Given everything I know about Katara, Yangchen and have seen so far about Neku, Grindelwald is the single best combatant here and that's not really stretching anything. I would go on even further about what he can do, but before that, I'll have to address why Yangchen's feat against Old Iron is something above Katara's paygrade.
There are several problems with this. First of all, this implies she outperforms Aang in his Avatar State while in base, not needing the Avatar State at all. This is problematic because Avatar State level characters are definitely banned. However, let's assume this is all fair and stuff, lets properly analyze it. Because lowkey you are misconstruing what actually happened, or blowing it out of proportion to make it sound more impressive than it actually is.
"Aang and toph accepted that they wouldn't be able to do any damage to the spirit" Knocking down Old Iron is not the same as damaging him and the reason he couldn't be damaged was because of his iron armor, which is why Toph stepped in.
That's not what I meant btw, I didn't mean to say Yangchen > AS Aang. Aang fought the spirit in a boxing match of who is more powerful, that's not what Yangchen is capable of.
Aang fought Old Iron for a few minutes and was also holding himself back because there were a lot of people around. A fully unrestrained Avatar state Aang would be able to beat Old Iron fairly quickly if he hadn't cared about the people surrounding him. In the Avatar state, Aang himself raised the ocean level in the finale nearly submerging all of Ozai's airships after the battle was over, Szeto controlled multiple volcanoes, Kuruk raised a Tsunami, destroyed an island once, Kyoshi moved island, Roku obliterated the royal palace completely made of metal, Aang himself created a massive chasm around Yu Dao. There are several showings of what the avatar state is truly capable of if it weren't holding back. Old Iron is simply not capable of matching if Aang in the AS cut loose without any care for anyone else near him. His giant stone golem ensured Old Iron's focus stayed on him and they were both engaging in a fist fight.
That's not what I am saying Yangchen could perform. She is not going to match his blows the way the avatar state did. Aang's head on boxing match that completely involved only raw power wasn't the only means to fight the spirit. It was what Aang chose in that moment taking the condition into account. Yangchen was still capable of taking the fight to Old Iron, wasn't allowed to make a single mistake in the fight given how Old Iron seemed to be an actual warrior and not just any regular powerful bender. The overall combative ability she needs to demonstrate including power, mastery and versatility of the elements, skill, speed, combat IQ, etc. to pull this off is very much above any unenhanced bender's feats besides Kuruk's battle against Glowworm. I think what I am trying to say is, this isn't about just power, which I think is what you meant when you said about Yangchen outperforming the avatar state, but about the collective combative ability to be put in display to take the fight to the spirit for a whole night. All of this is something that I don't see Aang or Toph perform, they wouldn't last the whole night against Old Iron let alone actually manage to knock him down, which is still impressive because even if he wasn't really hurt, the power needed to knock him down is still hugely impressive. I would rather look at the fight together to place Yangchen's standing in the verse, because this is beyond a certain level of capability that is only matched by a select set of benders like Roku and Kuruk.
Toph and her students were able to use metal bending to strip him of his incredibly durable armor, and Katara while using the rain managed to block one of his strikes with her ice bending so its not like her performance really matters in the grand scheme of things, she has a lot of stamina, she can get a cookie anT=d some tea for her rituals if she likes, and maybe a pat on the back for all I care, we have no idea how a drawn out fight between General Old Iron vs Katara, Toph or Aang would go since it got cut short courtesy of Toph helping Aang and the latter one shotting him with the Avatar State.
There's no way I can imagine Katara, Toph or Aang fight the spirit for a prolonged time like Yangchen did given this is what Toph said during the fight. They may fight for a while, but doing it for hours on the trot is beyond their capability. The comic established the overall threat level of Old Iron. No one from team avatar could take him without Aang entering the avatar state, they would all get beaten quickly if they tried to do that. If Toph were capable of fighting it, the whole comic storyline wouldn't have happened. Even after his armor was removed, Old Iron was too much for Toph or Aang which is what the characters themselves say in the scenes. Yangchen was able to achieve what she did because she was better bender, fighter than anyone in the gaang across all aspects.
Gallery
Avatar: The Last Airbender - The Rift Part 3
To conclude things, it isn't about just whether Yangchen is powerful enough to block Old Iron's punches or if she could truly defeat the spirit, rather how capable she is as a combatant overall because what she achieved was still beyond anything Katara, Aang or Toph can manage.
Given her feats with General Old Iron which you are hyping up, you shouldn't have any problem with my arguing that a master waterbender can intercept Yangchen's fire attacks. Not that's its necessary since Neku will be running support with barriers and shields on top of Katara's own personal defense.
I absolutely don't have any problem with Katara being capable of blocking Yangchen's firebending, most collisions between explosive firebending and waterbending ends up with the water getting completely vaporized and the fire getting neutralized as well, because that's the nature of explosions in general.
I think it's about time we discuss Yangchen vs Katara because all said and done, this is bound to happen. Katara would immediately recognize Yangchen's arrows and Yangchen would recognize Katara's water tribe outfit and her abilities. Being the master of all the elements, Yangchen is better equipped of the two to deal with the other's offense because she can bend just as much water as Katara while not being skilled to the same degree. Beyond the natural advantage of mulitple elements, Yangchen's airbending also would be extremely unconventional for Katara in comparison to Aang, especially when she doesn't have a lake or an ocean's worth of water to deal with.
She could unconventionally target her opponents by not shooting projectile offense on them with very very minimal movements, like this.
Her AoE coverage with airbending in closed environments like the castle would be even more dangerous.
She's powerful enough to stop combustion beams from one of the strongest benders in the franchise.
Her asphyxiation is far more advanced than someone like Zaheer because she was able to apply it on a combustion beam itself to neutralize it. One of the times she did that, it's described that she managed to replicate the power of the combustion beam's shockwaves with her technique. Plus, Yangchen also has no qualms using the technique while hiding and ensure her opponents are knocked out. The castle in this scenario is the perfect setting to trap your teammates and knock them unconscious.
Lastly she actually utilizes her airbending enhanced superspeed in combat as well, so landing a hit on her would be a pain in itself.
Katara will find it extremely tough to handle all of it because some of these aren't blasts of wind she can block with ice and so on.
With all this said about her airbending, she still has a lot to offer with earth bending too. She's not as good with it as she is with air, but it offers a lot to her in defense and battlefield manipulation.
I'll add that being a sandbender further helps her in the above technique, because it's much easier to open a tiny fissure on sand than it is on earth, because the particles of sand are loosely held. The dust cloud I mentioned at the start would help her incapacitate her opponents because the floor is sand and it also blocks vicinity.
She has knows the best earthbending technique when it comes to evading opponents in a fight - underground tunneling. Yangchen managed to burrow within a mountain when she was descending downwards and had to change direction to not give away the position of air nomads. This is closest to teleportation sort of a thing in the verse.
Lastly, in what might be her best earthbending showing of power, Yangchen buries a large building which was stated to be relative to an apartment. Kavik also says the feat needs several masters working together to perform the same.
After all this, I think Katara while being good isn't going to come out of a battle against one of the strongest avatars.
Regarding your senses. They are useful and impressive, but how detailed are they and what are their best feats? Even if it can detect us as we close in on your location, Neku can still read your mind and tell when you are going to act and what you plan on doing next so no matter what Neku can still get the jump on Yangchen and can at least help Katara land hits or prep a counterattack. In addition, the heavy rain and thunderstorms will make it much harder for the enemy team to hear us approach. The thunderstorms can potentially short circuit the drones or hit any of the guards or members of your team while not hindering us in the slightest.
The senses aren't long ranged, at least not Yangchen is passively using them like the scene I showed. The best we can say is she can know that your team have come to the entrance of the castle. She may be able to do better if she actively tried to, however.
All that does is make him a target, and courtesy of Neku the drones and his position will be made clear due to the range of his scanning ability. So Raiden would be a sitting duck if Neku decided to snipe him with one of his psychs.If Neku gets at a close enough range, he could just spawn an attack a 1 pointer like him wouldn't be able to react tosince it would spawn right around him before he would see it coming, a 3 pointer bender with special senses, could avoid this, but not a 1 pointer like raiden, especially movie raiden who has little to no feats.
He will be a sitting duck only if your side get past the barrier right away, which is where Grindelwald comes in and so would the dust cloud that hinders Katara's vision. My side will have the drones to know where your team is, Yangchen would be able to find once you get to the entrance and Grindelwald would also know if the shield is destroyed. Coming to what the shield can withstand, this is the most basic shield charm in the HP verse - Protego. The shield charm I mentioned is basically a stronger variation of this one and it withstood impact from a massive horde of death eaters without any problems [1, 2]. It took Voldemort with the Elder wand to destroy the shield. To put into perspective what the death eaters are capable of this, they can explode structures fairly easily [1, 2]. Repello Inimicum, part of the shield charm has an offensive usage to it in this manner where it could easily disintegrate humans that pass through it. Grindelwald also managed to use it offensively when he disintegrating Leta Lestrange.
Fantastic Beasts - The Crimes of Grindelwald
So, I have multiple problems with Katara and Neku getting past the barrier.
First, the barrier is invisible to sight.
It disintegrates any physical contact with humans, so any second they touch the barrier, they are dead.
The drones, which aren't susceptible to TP (I assume scanning is basically TP, if I'm wrong, please correct me why along with the feat, since the next post would be my last), can blast sonic blasts, fire, laser, explosives, etc.
Assuming that your side get past the barriers (which is still in doubt due to the reasons I mentioned above), facing Yangchen and Grindelwald is better than anything they have ever done. Grindelwald's fire magic is better than any firebender from the avatar verse and transfiguration is something Neku might not be able to deal with. The manners in which he can attack is enormous making him the single most versatile combatant in play.
Wizarding world's sheer versatility can be too trouble some, but to give a better idea of how they duel,
There are spells that incapacitate opponents, either by binding them or using ropes, cords and chains. Any attempt your team tries to sneak into the castle, they could end up meeting something like this.
Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Part 2
Kingsley Shackleholt stops a death eater who was flying into the castle in the Battle of Hogwarts, sends him back flying across a long distance. He's basically using the body binding spell - Petrificus Totalus. The spell isn't projectile type either, so it would virtually impossible to dodge. Katara's water could stop it, if she manages to raise a wall between her and the spell, but given the nature of the spell, she wouldn't have any clue about what happened all of a sudden. Same could be said for Neku's shields, but he would have to know what is happening to raise the shield in the right time, because otherwise, non-projectile spells wouldn't miss the targets.
I would like to focus next on transfiguration in detail because he's up against people who are particularly proficient in elemental arts. The battle between Minerva McGonagall and Severus Snape gives us a look into what would possibly happen if two highly wizards duked out against one another. The result is, it wouldn't be a standard lightshow that we are used to in duels. Both were at their creative best turning each other's offense against one another. Minvera initially shoots flames on Severus, who managed to block it with the shield charm and then proceeds to transfigure it into a large serpent. Minverva quickly turns the snake into smoke and finally forming daggers out of the smoke. Both of these wizards are multiple notches below the likes of Grindelwald by all means, putting any doubts about his capability out of the window.
Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - The Sacking of Severus Snape
With all this discussion about fire, we have finally reached the section which I'd want to get into detail about -- partly because there is so much of elemental arts discussion and Grindelwald himself is extraordinary with fire.
He can unleash the flames into a dragon the same way he did in Paris or transfigure them into a serpent the way Voldemort did. These transfigured beasts are not explosive/destructive in nature but rather have heat/burning nature to their offense, to give you an idea of what the spell -- called fiendfyre curse (the semi-sentient fire that can take forms) -- is capable of, this is what they did when a final year student named Crabbe who didn't know to control Fiendfyre curse released it. [1, 2, 3, 4]. Fiendfyre is the most dangerous spell in wizarding world. It is basically fire cast from a wizard/pre-existing one that has been combined with dark magic to provide semi-sentience to it. More than casting it, the most challenging part with the curse is controlling it, which is where Crabbe failed. Another wizard who used Fiendfyre pretty well was Bellatrix. She used it when she attacked the Burrow in the Half Blood Prince, surrounding the Weasley's home and allowed only Harry to pass while Lupin was stranded and had to fight his way through with the fire which Bellatrix was controlling passively, while she drew Harry and Ginerva Weasley away. I'm just giving you the types of ways in which the curse can be used.
Now Grindelwald is a far more capable, accomplished wizards than Crabbe, etc. and it's even an insult to put their names together so he wouldn't let his own magic kill him in that manner, should be able to use it in ways like Bellatrix did as well, and not just making creatures out of it.
Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince
While I think your side (Katara specifically) is equipped enough to handle the flame itself, the flames are capable of burning your team if left unchecked, and such amount of flames moving around would definitely cause a distraction, enough for my team to get a sneaky strike in and kill Katara or Neku. This was exactly the same tactic Voldemort used in the Battle of the Ministry before the Second Wizarding War began, against Dumbledore. He created a flaming serpent that attacked Albus, while he teleported to a different spot when Dumbledore was dealing with the snake and shot a killing curse on him.
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix
Simply put, Grindelwald's spells are too tricky and versatile to handle, while at the same time, he is still powerful enough to fight his opponents with his magical ability.
Katara will be flooding portions of the map with steam and water to break formations, and once we get in range of the castle, Katara could easily just flood the area with steam and water more aggressively, to draw people out, there wouldn't be a need to just rush in when Katara has the means to drag everyone out and force a skirmish. Katara has the most potential for scale and power in this fight because it will be raining heavily, providing her with a constant source of water. Keep in mind, people like Hama who Katara surpassed was drawing water from everywhere to stack and amp her attacks. Look closely at that clip, she throws a water attack at Katara, then pulls more water from the trees and flowers, and then combines that with her currently traveling water attack. She has literally nothing but rain and trees covering the battlefield. Katara could already make ice constructs by pulling water out of the air just like Hama, so having the rain will essentially give her everything she needs to work with and the thunder storms.
Yangchen has her way to deal with steam, since she is a waterbender, so she can dissipate it or use airbending to clear it like Aang did in the waterbending scroll or once your team come close to castle entrance or somewhere, she would be able to tell someone has come. Plus, the shields will ensure steam doesn't enter our zone. It'd take some of Katara's bending to get past that and in that mean time, the drones can target her.
Also I might as well ask given everything I stated so far, what feats does the Wizard's shields have that suggest it could take full power large scale waterbending from Katara? Because it might just get destroyed as a byproduct of Yangchen and Katara fighting for control of the battlefield.
I've provided the capability of death eaters who tried to break the shield and failed to do it and the ability of one of the more basic shield charms to hold up to a small house getting destroyed. I'd say a stronger variation of the spell with an additional spell to support it should at least be capable of holding against explosive offense that can destroy some of those small structures in Hogwarts which the death eaters broke into bits. Katara would need to do more than her regular bending to get through it, that's assuming she actually knows she is up against a shield in the first place, which I highly doubt she would because the whole thing is invisible.
Flooding the area in this manner is completely impossible, covering in mist is possible, but flooding is not. Why? Because no amount of rain will give you enough amount of water to flood the place right at the start of the battle. Look at the case in real world, I takes few hours of torrential rainfall to flood an area because only then the amount of water needed to flood is available. Even look at the showing you posted in the Southern Raiders, the dome Katara forms is a thin film. That in no way is going to flood an entire location in this manner. If she needs to flood the map, she needs to bend lot more water than the one enough to just form a hollow one, otherwise, I don't see the water supply being enough to flood all the buildings and the streets. Few minutes of rain will only give you water that will barely reach the ankle.
You don't get it. Katara's feat in Southern Raiders, shows she can clump up a large amount of water via the rain, she can already pull water out of the air and the plants, why wouldn't the rain be enough if the water is literally everywhere? Using the idea that it takes a few minutes to hours of torrential rainfall doesn't really matter does it? These are benders who are compiling as much water as possible in a single area, while rain is spreading its water everywhere before it comes together to flood an area. Look at the feats where I showed her creating ice walls, the first one where she shields people from the debris of a house, and the other one where she fought against General Old Iron, and even here in the promise
Using little to no resources to create decently sized ice constructs. In The Promise, using a singular puddle, Katara made a large ice road that spread out across the battlefield meeting up with Aang who was a good distance away and reaching the king despite him being high up via his balloon.
This is why all that stuff you're saying about a flood doesn't matter, there would be water literally everywhere for her to gather massive attacks. Look how she makes this decently sized water spout for her friends during The Rift. She seems to use a little bit of water from her pouch and uses the rain around her to make a larger construct.
Think back to the fight against Hama, that big ass attack she threw at Katara was literally an attack she was constantly stacking on top of each other using additional water. Flooding an area as a waterbender isn't as hard as you think it is. Think about how much waterbending speed and power she has at her disposal.
Morality - There are several civilians here, Katara is not the type to actually harm civilians. In fact she even saved Fire nation civilians in The Painted Lady episode. She is not the type to go flood the whole city block when there are civilians in it.
Fair, this is exactly why Neku is here to mark off positions of civilians and guards via his scanning, Katara has surprisingly good control, and in order for the guards to properly do their job its not like they are going to be cluttered in close proximity with civilians. Keep in mind there's only 15 civilians. The map is big enough that such a number is worthless, they would be spread out so far that even if Katara was flooding portions of the map at a time, only a few of them would be in danger and Katara could rein in her waterbending just enough to not hurt them.
Even when she converted that rain dome back to water, it was still a decent amount of water, she could have kept collecting water, you know how much she can bend. Look at her time as the painted lady. She bent water from all the way down that cliffside, to up the window, and flooded the factory. The amount of control, sensing and precision she would need is great.
With Neku marking off positions and the duo taking to the rooftops anyway, we will be able to clearly see where the guards and civilians are.
Also, I want to note something else about rain, look at the dome she forms in the Southern raiders, she basically combines all the droplets of water to form a large dome. In a fight against someone of this tier like Yangchen, she would need to be quick enough with her bending. This is not to say Katara is slower or something, but the time it takes to combine water drops from a lot of points in space is always going to be longer than the time it would take to bend if all the water were in a single spot, even if it is only by fraction of a second longer. There is also another factor to consider that, fighting inside a castle (assuming they get past the barrier, which I will get into, later on) will further increase time for her bending by a fraction of a second. It's not going to take as much as it did when she bent water from outside the factory, but this will still not as fast as Katara bending water from a pond right in front of her. Both of these are very minor advantages that will actually stack up on helping my side.
With that out of the way, I can see her covering the place in mist perfectly fine. But our team has ways to deal with it.
I think you are misunderstanding, even if you are right, and the flooding takes time, the duo isn't in any rush. There isn't a time limit, and the only threat that is active on the field asides from the guards are the drones you have flying around. Keep that in mind. Raiden is only around to be on watch duty. As for a direct fight between Katara and Yangchen, we aren't bum rushing the castle, we are getting close enough to properly scan the surroundings and get an idea on what we are getting ourselves into, and if possible break the formation of your team by drawing them out with environmental bending. Yangchen is the one doing the heavy lifting here, as far as combat despite Grindelwald's prowess.
There's the drought charm which is capable of draining water from puddles and ponds, which looks a fair amount of water that Katara will be able to get in the location. Ron stated that it can't drain water from a large lakes, but a lake is larger than the amount of water we have in this place.
The impervius charm is known to repel water and Hermione helped Harry with this spell during a Quidditch match which happened during rain. She applied it on his glasses to ensure he isn't wet. This isn't going to be helpful against larger moves but in cases of steam freezes and small tier techniques, Grindelwald would be able to survive.
Thankfully, Katara will have plenty of water to work with as the fight goes on, so the defenses you mentioned won't mean much if with every movement Katara makes she can gather more and more water for her attacks. If she's afraid of water not being immediately available she can freeze some of the water and lean on her icebending more, the ice will remain on the battlefield as she is fighting, and she can immediately thaw it out and turn it back into water whenever, meaning a battlefield of ice, would just be constant compact sources of water everywhere.
Transfiguration also allows Grindelwald to vanish objects or turn them into something that he could use as an offense. Some of the common instances of transfiguration were Minerva turning smoke to daggers, Snape turning fire into a serpent, vanishing a serpent into air. He could simply deal with water by transfiguring it into something else or vanishing it.
How large of a scale can he do this on?
Scanning and such
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Based on what I get from the feat you posted about Neku regardingscanninghe was doing it to people in a building, is there any feat where he could scan such a large area? Because otherwise I don't see how he is scanning the whole map to find us from the starting point.
You weren't looking at the one I showed before that. Here is a longer clip. This is the first time he awakens scanning, he's in the middle of the street, right in the middle of shibuya, and we see him scanning multiple buildings, and a bunch of people at once. This is how he finds out he has his powers. This was depicted the same way in the manga one shot as well. In the second dialogue that you are linking, these guys are talking about how they could scan everyone that was passing by in that city block that they were standing in and the dialogue implies they could scan even further.
The starting distance where your team spawn and our team spawn are in two different streets entirely and I haven't seen anything about Neku's telepathic range that suggests he could find and pin point my team's location from where he spawns. Also, I'll try to address your point about him being capable of finding out the drones even if they are invisible, isn't he scanning people's minds in the feat you posted? If my understanding is correct, it's why he could know what everyone is thinking.
You also must have missed what I posted in the same section, scanning allows one to detect the unseeable. Here it is again:
This is solid because Noise exists on another plane of existence entirely, meaning, your standard level of invisibility will not work here.
Meaning, Neku will have no problems detecting the drones, Neku will also have no problem seeing the wall of flames.
These are essentially astral beings that operate on another plane of existence. What's cool about Scanning is that its not just to read minds. Noise are invisible monsters that exist on another plane of existence that can only be sensed through a player's scanning.
Grindelwald has demonstrated brilliance in occulumency, his most notable feats being
Blocking Queenie from reading his mind when he transfigured himself as Percival Graves. Queenie, unlike other/most wizards was a born legilimens and the art came to her extremely naturally. She was capable of reading minds passively, didn't need a wand, incantation to perform the spell and is also capable of reading minds from a distance. [1, 2, 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, 4, 5]. The second and fourth one were done when the target were not in her vicinity at all, this is a requirement for most wizards to perform the art, not Queenie - who Grindelwald was able to block from accessing his thoughts.
capable of lying to the most accomplished Legilimens in history (Lord Voldemort) [1, 2]. Voldemort was searching for the Elder Wand and went to Grindelwald's prison in Nurmengard, but Grindelwald was able to lie to Voldemort about the wands' whereabouts despite the fact that Dumbledore won it from him. This is such an enormous feat because the only other person who managed to lie to Voldemort was Snape.
But why would he have it ready let alone transfigure his mind? Why would he know to set up mental defenses? In addition, none of this is enough. In TWEWY, everyone in the verse(at least in Shibuya) naturally has their mind shielded. This is due to people naturally shielding themselves from others despite the desire to connect with one another, in TWEWY, they push that narrative even further and stated that Shibuya residents shield their own minds. Player Pins grant the user the ability to break through those walls, while also strengthening the user's resistance.
Secret Report 18
The Conductor has begun his work with the Red Skull pins. By bringing Shibuya's collective consciousness in line with his own, he hopes to accomplish his goal of rebuilding Shibuya.
The Conductor's zeal is unparalleled among Reapers. His strong presence was central to the Composer's ability to govern Shibuya, an area considered exceptionally chaotic even among the Higher Plane's denizens.
That the Composer would consent to base his plans for Shibuya's destruction on a Game with the Conductor shows his unwavering trust in his subordinate.
The unification of minds is the natural state of the Higher Plane. Given time, it might happen throughout the Underground. The current UG, however, is not ready.
People have erected walls around their minds, dividing their collective consciousness.
They coexist independently, like the cells that make up a single human being.
While the Player Pin hold Imagination strong enough to pass through those walls, the pin user's own barriers are strengthened. Were that not the case, the incoming flood of other minds could erode at the user's own consciousness. Consequently, those who hold Player Pins cannot be scanned.
Why does individuality exist?
This is something the Conductor has overlooked. Everything that exists has a purpose. Obsessed with his egoistic "protection" of Shibuya, the Conductor has blinded himself to the facts. With his blind ego funneled into everyone in Shibuya, the city's destruction is not far off.
So long as there is individuality, it is impossible to fully eliminate loneliness. There is no such thing as a shared reality.
Even people who believe they share a connection are not truly connected. They must actually make contact, clash, and learn about others through their foreignness.
Differences should not be denied; they should be accepted and enjoyed.
People must realize this if Shibuya is to be spared from destruction.
Meaning Neku will have no problem scanning people. Even those who's minds are shielded.
Other Counters
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It's Grindelwald, to be honest. Given everything I know about Katara, Yangchen and have seen so far about Neku, Grindelwald is the single best combatant here and that's not really stretching anything. I would go on even further about what he can do, but before that, I'll have to address why Yangchen's feat against Old Iron is something above Katara's paygrade.
Grindelwald is versatile but he doesn't have the stats, this gets into a direct fight, Yangchen is the only one holding her own realistically, Katara and Neku should be faster, the latter being much faster courtesy of his powers and through his mobility, teleportation and and much more.
Aang fought the spirit in a boxing match of who is more powerful, that's not what Yangchen is capable of.
Aang fought Old Iron for a few minutes and was also holding himself back because there were a lot of people around. A fully unrestrained Avatar state Aang would be able to beat Old Iron fairly quickly if he hadn't cared about the people surrounding him
He fought him blow to blow emphasizing raw power specifically because he knew with Old Iron's armor, he could withstand any assault thrown his way. This is why in spite of Toph stripping his armor, Aang didn't go for the kill until Toph was in danger. His armor was simply that much of an upgrade.
Old Iron is simply not capable of matching if Aang in the AS cut loose without any care for anyone else near him. His giant stone golem ensured Old Iron's focus stayed on him and they were both engaging in a fist fight.
I doubt this, this is one of Aang best showings for earthbending, if he wanted to stop Old Iron from fighting there were dozens of ways to do so, he simply couldn't put him down same way Yangchen couldn't and neither Avatar could metal bend.
The overall combative ability she needs to demonstrate including power, mastery and versatility of the elements, skill, speed, combat IQ, etc. to pull this off is very much above any unenhanced bender's feats besides Kuruk's battle against Glowworm. I think what I am trying to say is, this isn't about just power, which I think is what you meant when you said about Yangchen outperforming the avatar state, but about the collective combative ability to be put in display to take the fight to the spirit for a whole night
My point still stands, this is a stamina feat. When Old Iron's only offensive option is to punch things and his only defensive option is to rely on his armor and tank attacks, this isn't an impressive feat. Aang wasn't given a chance to have an extended fight with him, and Toph, despite showing one of her greatest defensive feats for a non-enhanced, non-avatar, bender, Toph blocked three giant fireballs from Aang in his Avatar State, hardly had a chance to do anything either. Aang and Toph both just came from fighting each other too, and Toph was unconscious from saving everyone from the mine literally not long before Old Iron came into play.
Sure you could argue she locked in, and showed grit, determination and creativity as an Avatar, but most of that fight was off-screen, this description and image, you are trying to paint to me and the voters doesn't make sense to me when I know you have far better feats that show Yangchen's talents and battle IQ. In fact, tell me right now in three paragraphs with explicit data breaking down what happened in the fight between Yangchen and Old Iron, I want you to break down all the strategies and genius plays she made in that fight that makes fighting him such a marvel as far as feats are concerned. You won't be able to, because those feats don't exist, most of the fight between them we haven't even seen.
All of this is something that I don't see Aang or Toph perform, they wouldn't last the whole night against Old Iron let alone actually manage to knock him down, which is still impressive because even if he wasn't really hurt, the power needed to knock him down is still hugely impressive.
Aang, the guy who knocks over large beasts with his air bending, the guy who stopped a volcano??? Toph? The one who in this arc blocked AS Aang's fire bending, the blasts that he planned on using to destroy a refinery? And also went toe to toe with Bumi? Who I know damn well you wouldn't dare say cannot replicate that.
The reason why I'm going out of my way to dismiss this feat is because in the same arc that we talk about Yangchen going toe to toe with General Old Iron, is the same arc Katara effortlessly blocks one of his punches with an ice construct, the same damn guy who was boxing with Aang in Avatar State. General Old Iron is just a big durable punching bag, that everyone has the means to fight, but only a metal bender can strip his defenses in order to harm him. Yangchen literally had nowhere to go and had no choice but to fight General Old Iron, the only reason you can say Aang, Toph, Katara and literally anyone else couldn't perform the feat is because they literally didn't get the chance to. The Gaang got chased by Azula and her crew and were deprived of sleep the whole time, but held them off, this happened over the course of a few days if I am not mistaken.
If Toph were capable of fighting it, the whole comic storyline wouldn't have happened. Even after his armor was removed, Old Iron was too much for Toph or Aang which is what the characters themselves say in the scenes. Yangchen was able to achieve what she did because she was better bender, fighter than anyone in the gaang across all aspects.
This is narrative nitpicking at best, Katara had no issues reacting to General Old Iron's attacks, and you just said Toph and Katara are equals, and Toph had no issues metal bending his armor off of him. And of course Toph couldn't stop him, no bending is getting through his armor except metal bending, and on top of that Old Iron could move around his armor as if he was a metal bender himself, so taking off his armor wasn't a permanent solution.
Toph, despite her prowess, her and her students needed to take off his armor scale by scale, and they were essentially at ground zero doing this. Keep in mind, Toph has solid mobility, she can bury underground, launch herself hundreds of meters away, why would she say "he's too fast, I can't hold him off."(meanwhile Aang is flying side by side with General Old Iron's sprint, on an airspout, Toph has tagged and reacted to Aang on multiple occasions and in this same arc tagged him while he was on an airspout) she's worrying about her students, plus if she tries to fight Old Iron alone, she has to deal with metal bending his armor and fending off his attacks up close, it wasn't going to be a fair fight as long as he has his armor.
If we go by dialogue and scans, nobody, not even Yangchen is capable of scratching General Old Iron if he has his iron armor equipped. It doesn't matter what feats Aang had during the final war in the OG series, it doesn't matter that Yangchen has some other cool feats, the fact of the matter is, when General Old Iron pulled up, nobody beat him until his armor was compromised. Simple.
Surviving a night against a beatstick that only knows how to punch and tank attacks isn't impressive, at the very least it isn't as impressive as you make it out. Yangchen's job was to stop him from destroying shit, General Old Iron pulled up while Aang and Toph were fighting and what maybe a few hours after Toph lifted up that mine to save everyone? Aang himself just like Yangchen couldn't deal everlasting damage. That's a fact. I don't have to debate at length about that, its just true.
I think it's about time we discuss Yangchen vs Katara because all said and done, this is bound to happen. Katara would immediately recognize Yangchen's arrows and Yangchen would recognize Katara's water tribe outfit and her abilities. Being the master of all the elements, Yangchen is better equipped of the two to deal with the other's offense because she can bend just as much water as Katara while not being skilled to the same degree. Beyond the natural advantage of mulitple elements, Yangchen's airbending also would be extremely unconventional for Katara in comparison to Aang, especially when she doesn't have a lake or an ocean's worth of water to deal with.
Yangchen's versatility is good, but this is where Neku comes in with his own brand of versatility, through the various powers he has, he has energy constructs and blades he can spawn out of nowhere which I have shown already, use telekinesis to counter bending as well, and create barriers to stop against elemental barrages. Neku can create attacks that Yangchen cannot bend or redirect and from directions she won't expect. The best part about this is that Neku is capable of spamming these techniques, and those chains I mentioned earlier? If Neku grabs her at a distance or spawns them around her like he does here, she isn't escaping easy. A volley of attacks coming from under you would be hard to ignore and equally hard to dodge. Moves like these can outright tag Yangchen or at least force an opening for Katara to actually land decisive hits with her bending.
In fact having as many tools as Neku does ensures that he aid Katara in any aspect of the match, you also said that water sources might be a problem for Katara, well thankfully, Neku has water Pins as well and as I shown in my opener can create giant ice constructs as well to give Katara more to work with while simultaneously attacking Yangchen
Coming to what the shield can withstand,thisis the most basic shield charm in the HP verse - Protego. The shield charm I mentioned is basically a stronger variation of this one and it withstood impact from a massive horde of death eaters without any problems [1,2].
Im going to need additional context for this, because first off, one of your links is dead, and secondly, from what I could gather the shield that withstood the impact of the death eaters, was a joint feat between wizards, and that spell covered the entirety of Hogwarts, how is that tourney legal if the spell operates on a such a scale(assuming Grindelwald can replicate it at that exact size to cover the entire castle)
Repello Inimicum, part of the shield charm has an offensive usage to it in this manner where it could easily disintegrate humansthat pass through it. Grindelwald also managed to use it offensively when he disintegrating Leta Lestrange.
If these straight up disintegrate people then you are breaking the rules because instant kill abilities especially stuff that allegedly just disintegrate people into nothing, shouldn't be in the tourney, are you sure these aren't just fire spells? Because if so then it won't matter because Neku has shields and barriers he can cast on himself to get through. Like for example a water barrier.
He will be a sitting duck only if your side get past the barrier right away, which is where Grindelwald comes in and so would the dust cloud that hinders Katara's vision.
Neku also has wind based powers, he can easily just clear it away, plus that dust cloud wouldn't stop Katara from snuffing it out with a steam cloud.
My side will have the drones to know where your team is, Yangchen would be able to find once you get to the entrance and Grindelwald would also know if the shield is destroyed.
The drones are gone, and if we got through, it would simply just turn into a direct fight, if push came to shove, Neku could just scan where the VIP is, and depending on if he gets a line of sight on him, can snipe him.
Assuming that your side get past the barriers (which is still in doubt due to the reasons I mentioned above), facing Yangchen and Grindelwald is better than anything they have ever done. Grindelwald's fire magic is better than any firebender from the avatar verse and transfiguration is something Neku might not be able to deal with. The manners in which he can attack is enormous making him the single most versatile combatant in play.
Wizarding world's sheer versatility can be too trouble some, but to give a better idea of how they duel,
There are spells that incapacitate opponents, either by binding them or using ropes, cords and chains. Any attempt your team tries to sneak into the castle, they could end up meeting something like this.
I don't think you get this, I feel like you somehow keep blowing past the fact that Neku has almost all of these abilities outside of transfiguration, not that he needs it when he can also spawn attacks at differently angles.
Kingsley Shackleholt stops a death eater who was flying into the castle in the Battle of Hogwarts, sends him back flying across a long distance. He's basically using the body binding spell - Petrificus Totalus. The spell isn't projectile type either, so it would virtually impossible to dodge. Katara's water could stop it, if she manages to raise a wall between her and the spell, but given the nature of the spell, she wouldn't have any clue about what happened all of a sudden. Same could be said for Neku's shields, but he would have to know what is happening to raise the shield in the right time, because otherwise, non-projectile spells wouldn't miss the targets.
This is direct TK into ragdoll. This isn't allowed, and you even admitted it was not a projectile or anything of that nature so it isn't a TK blast.
Now Grindelwald is a far more capable, accomplished wizards than Crabbe, etc. and it's even an insult to put their names together so he wouldn't let his own magic kill him in that manner, should be able to use it in ways like Bellatrix did as well, and not just making creatures out of it.
Has he ever used the spell?
While I think your side (Katara specifically) is equipped enough to handle the flame itself, the flames are capable of burning your team if left unchecked, and such amount of flames moving around would definitely cause a distraction, enough for my team to get a sneaky strike in and kill Katara or Neku.
Neku can read your mind, any plans or strategies you have will already be known, and seeing as Neku has so many ranged options, including attacks he can spawn in your immediate area. from beneath you, are even from above and behind you.
Katara still has plenty of range and power with her water bending, simple flash freezes like these are quick and easy to throw out. Katara will be able to defend herself if Neku gives her a warning about what the enemy will do.
By the time you even get this spell off, Katara would have already been spamming her attacks to douse the flames, remember, Neku can generate ice attacks and water attacks for Katara to use. He can essentially generate the resources she needs to get the most out of her bending.
This was exactly the same tactic Voldemort used in the Battle of the Ministry before the Second Wizarding War began, against Dumbledore. He created a flaming serpent that attacked Albus, while he teleported to a different spot when Dumbledore was dealing with the snake and shot a killing curse on him.
But did Grindelwald use this tactic, and has he ever cast this spell? You didn't really break down scaling or what spells Grindelwald should know, so mentioning all these characters doesn't really help me understand why Grindelwald would think to use these attacks.
Simply put, Grindelwald's spells are too tricky and versatile to handle, while at the same time, he is still powerful enough to fight his opponents with his magical ability.
Well, lets actually break down matchups then.
Neku vs Grindelwald- Neku has speed enhancement abilities, short range teleportation, can spawn elemental attacks with virtually no cue on where they will spawn, as you already know he can create shields and small barriers. Scanning is designed to get through shielded minds, so he can read even a talented wizard's mind, and scanning also allows to detect the invisible. Neku also has better scaling and feats for speed so he can press those advantages while also having access to this much versatility.
Katara vs Grindelwald- Katara courtesy of the weather conditions and her partner being Neku, she will have all the water she needs, if she's quick about it, she can overwhelm Grindelwald through sheer power. Katara has dealt with fast opponents such as Ty Lee, Azula, and her own peers such as Aang, an established air bender who should be just as fast as Yangchen, especially seeing as he has the same exact feats of reacting to combustion beams which I cannot see Grindelwald reacting to like Yangchen, and Team Avatar did.
Neku vs Yangchen - This could go either way, but i'd favor Neku since he can read minds, pin her down with wires, or spawn attacks form behind, on top, or from below. And not all of the attacks he throws at her has to be elemental, they could be energy based attacks as well or energy constructs.
Katara vs Yangchen - Katara has faced off against all elements, from different people of varying levels. Katara has the capacity to fight back against most of Yangchen's arsenal, the longer the fight goes between Yangchen and her the more likely she is to lose, but she can definitely hold her off while Neku runs support.
Yangchen has her way to deal with steam, since she is a waterbender, so she can dissipate it or use airbending to clear it like Aang did in the waterbending scroll or once your team come close to castle entrance or somewhere, she would be able to tell someone has come. Plus, the shields will ensure steam doesn't enter our zone. It'd take some of Katara's bending to get past that and in that mean time, the drones can target her.
Good, that means the water and steam will keep Yangchen busy, and Neku would have sniped the drones by then since they are the only ones actively moving across the battlefield looking for Katara and Neku, by the time the duo reaches the castle, there wouldn't be anyone to stop Katara from bombarding the barrier.
I've provided the capability of death eaters who tried to break the shield and failed to do it and the ability of one of the more basic shield charms to hold up to a small house getting destroyed. I'd say a stronger variation of the spell with an additional spell to support it should at least be capable of holding against explosive offense that can destroy some of those small structures in Hogwarts which the death eaters broke into bits. Katara would need to do more than her regular bending to get through it, that's assuming she actually knows she is up against a shield in the first place, which I highly doubt she would because the whole thing is invisible.
Neku has water and ice pins, plus with all the rain, she can handle breaking the barrier. Plus you do realize Neku also can wail on the barrier right? You have two 3 pointers using destructive attacks on your shield. Neku is no pushover. If they both actually work together the shield can come down.
Team vs Team
Both of our posts are getting a little cluttered, and we are jumping back and forth between points. This section aims to summarize both of our teams, and go over point and point about this battle. Countering each individual point when both of us are essentially listing off a bunch of powers will make our posts hard to read. Think of this as a summary section.
Raiden stands on top of the castle keeping watch while controlling the drones.
The Drones will be cloaked by the illusion spells made by Grindelwald, which based off the rules will only hide the drones from the basic sense of sight.
Yangchen will be guarding the VIP directly
A barrier will allegedly surround the castle entrance, destroying people on contact, and the barrier will also be invisible via the same spell.
Yangchen will use earthbending to create a dust cloud that will spread across the battlefield or at least cover the castle.
DeathHero61: Objective- Destroy VIP
Katara and Neku take to the rooftops as they enter Hanamura from their spawn point, the buildings leading up to the chokepoint
As they travel from high ground to high ground, Katara will steam bend the rain, obscuring the view of the guards and civilians, making it harder for video cameras or anyone to spot us right away.
Neku will activate his scanning skill to read the minds of guards and civilians, and mark off their positions, this could potentially give Neku information on the position of other guards or the layout of the map.
Katara will then start to bend large amounts of water and cause flooding by compacting the water, if you look closely at the map in either videos, there are plenty of spaces where water will bundle up, plus there are several trees spread out as well, meaning those are additional sources of water to pull from. Neku's scanning is to understand where civilians are positioned so they aren't put in danger by Katara's waterbending.
As she approaches the castle, Katara and Neku's objective at that point would be to draw out the enemy with waterbending and use the heavy rain as a way to boost the amount of water she can throw at the castle.
Now lets discuss where our team clashes on my end.
Neku's scanning isn't just mind reading, its able to see that which is unseeable, even the mind reading aspect of Scanning is simply another way to see since people's thoughts manifest as fragments that can be seen by scanning. If that's hard to grasp, scanning is used to detect Noise, astral beings that operate on another plane of existence that cannot be seen normally unless they make themselves seen on purpose to attack others. Neku can scan people and even tell when someone is getting possessed by Noise. Spells that only hide things from sight, isn't enough. Spells shielding the mind won't help since Scanning is designed to go through mental barriers. This means, the drones will be detected and sniped out of the sky by Neku's various ranged attacks before we get to the castle and the barrier will be easy to see. Here's the sugar on the cream and the cherry on top, Neku can potentially scan your team and see what you have planned as the duo approaches the castle. So a lot of what you mentioned shouldn't be major factors because Neku will already have that intel.
Katara's potential to influence the battlefield is just as potent as Yangchen's even though she isn't as versatile as an Avatar, and Neku's own abilities helps her compensate for that gap in versatility.
If the duo manages to get past the barrier, the battlefield only becomes chaos from there as Katara and Yangchen through their elemental bending vie for control of the castle and the fate of the VIP, Neku can dash around the chaos and potentially use any number of methods to attack the VIP or simply attack Yangchen or Grindelwald.
Now that we have come to the final post, I'll just say, it was a very good to be a part of this! Going into my final thoughts, I'll address what I consider to be important talking points from our debate and then reinforce my points once again for the final time.
Flooding:
I'll make myself clear here once again, my initial point was that the amount of water needed to flood a city block sized location is sizeable and a few minutes of rain will not be enough in any way, shape or form. Now let's look at Katara's additional source of water here, you have posted multiple moments when she conjures water from air and all of them aren't filling the gap in volume between what rain provides and what she needs to flood the place.
The feat from Promise, she creates a ice path that is essentially as narrow enough to only accommodate one or two humans across it's breadth and is as thin as a regular stone. The only impressive portion with respect to the scale needed here is the length and that alone isn't filling the massive difference here.
The feat from The Puppermaster episode when she battles Hama, she is still bending water that is only a few times larger than Katara. This, once again isn't going to fill the gap I talked about earlier.
If you really look at these feats, they are impressive from a skill perspective, but for the purpose you are trying to argue here, they aren't really cutting.
To further emphasize my point, look at the factory feat you posted when Katara floods the factory and the rain dome she creates. There's a huge difference in the amount of water she is using between the two scenes and if she has to fill a location that has several buildings, she is going to need a lot more water than what she has here. It's not a matter of capability of Katara, rather the volume of water is itself not sufficient to achieve what you are arguing here.
Book 3: The Southern Raiders
This is why all that stuff you're saying about a flood doesn't matter, there would be water literally everywhere for her to gather massive attacks. Look how she makes this decently sized water spout for her friends during The Rift. She seems to use a little bit of water from her pouch and uses the rain around her to make a larger construct.
Lastly, to clarify one other scene you posted, her feats from Rift where she saves people during rain is Katara bending right in front of an ocean.
Gallery
The Rift - Part 3
About Grindelwald's transfiguration against Katara, he's amongst the greatest users of transfiguration based on:
Achieving human transfiguration, which is complex in itself, because perfectmolecular manipulation on a low level[source] (which is what transfiguration is, as told by Rowling) is hard to achieve on such fine levels and Grindelwald was able to do it.
With that being said, he would reliably scale close to Albus Dumbledore who managed to turn a large barrage of glass into snow. To give an idea of the amount of glass here, this is what Voldemort used to attack Albus. There is also Hermione's statement that essentially says transfiguring anything as large as a dragon as extremely hard. So, that's probably the limit in this setting.
Or if Katara bends more water than what he could transfigure, he could simply vaporize them with his fire magic that is powerful enough to do this or simply teleport out of that spot.
Fantastic Beasts and Where to find them
Summarizing it, Grindelwald would be able to transfigure anything in and around the place, even Neku's swords, fire, etc.
You weren't looking at the one I showed before that.Here is a longer clip.This is the first time he awakens scanning, he's in the middle of the street, right in the middle of shibuya, and we see him scanning multiple buildings, and a bunch of people at once.
This definitely looks like an upgrade from the one I saw earlier, but even here, the people he is scanning within a range that's smaller than the distance between the spawn points between our sides. So, I don't see this being enough for Neku to scan my side from right where your side spawns.
Coming to the mechanics of scanning, from your own description about the Noise, they are still beings alive with a mind right? Not technological gadgets of sorts, so I don't see how this translates to finding three drones. Even if you are right in that he is capable of finding my drones, how would Neku know when to scan? All your evidences so far only show Neku doing one task at a time, not multitasking, like say scanning and fighting, nor does the ability seem to work passively like say Queenie's.
To conclude, there is still doubt about the nature of scanning and Neku still wouldn't automatically know the timing of when to scan to perfectly spot the drones.
But why would he have it ready let alone transfigure his mind? Why would he know to set up mental defenses?
Top tier wizards generally use legilimency and Occulumency pretty actively both in combat and out of it, it also is a skill that sets them apart from good wizards. In a situation like this when Grindelwald seeking to save a person, he would absolutely want to maximize his chance of victory and that includes Occulumency as well.
In TWEWY, everyone in the verse(at least in Shibuya) naturally has their mind shielded. This is due to people naturally shielding themselves from others despite the desire to connect with one another, in TWEWY, they push that narrative even further and stated that Shibuya residents shield their own minds. Player Pins grant the user the ability to break through those walls, while also strengthening the user's resistance.
This looks really good for Neku, but Grindelwald has protected his mind from the greatest mind reader in the Wizarding world, a franchise with people capable of blocking thoughts -- means he should be capable of stopping Neku from reading his thoughts. If I draw a parallel here, Neku seems to be someone that can intrude and read memories of people that can shield themselves, which is very much what Voldemort did at the peak of his powers and a frail, old, out of practice Grindelwald managed to shield his mind from Tom. Even if eventually Neku proves to be too much on scanning, it will still take some time to get through and I don't see Neku multi tasking to keep up with Grindelwald's other magic.
My point still stands, this is a stamina feat. When Old Iron's only offensive option is to punch things and his only defensive option is to rely on his armor and tank attacks, this isn't an impressive feat. Aang wasn't given a chance to have an extended fight with him, and Toph, despite showing one of her greatest defensive feats for a non-enhanced, non-avatar, bender, Toph blocked three giant fireballs from Aang in his Avatar State, hardly had a chance to do anything either. Aang and Toph both just came from fighting each other too, and Toph was unconscious from saving everyone from the mine literally not long before Old Iron came into play.
Sure you could argue she locked in, and showed grit, determination and creativity as an Avatar, but most of that fight was off-screen, this description and image, you are trying to paint to me and the voters doesn't make sense to me when I know you have far better feats that show Yangchen's talents and battle IQ. In fact, tell me right now in three paragraphs with explicit data breaking down what happened in the fight between Yangchen and Old Iron, I want you to break down all the strategies and genius plays she made in that fight that makes fighting him such a marvel as far as feats are concerned. You won't be able to, because those feats don't exist, most of the fight between them we haven't even seen.
This is essentially losing sight of the forest for the trees, simply because we didn't see each and every move doesn't invalidate the whole feat in itself. The fight clearly paints a picture of what Yangchen was capable of and juxtaposes that with showing Toph and Aang actually trying to fight the spirit and accept inferiority during the battle. It's not the case of where Toph saying she is incapable of taking on Old Iron without even knowing who he is, she is standing right in front of him and the moment he turns his attention towards her, she simply says she can't hold him off. This is quite literally Toph losing a battle against him and needed Aang intervening.
I'll cut short about what I have told in my previous two posts since we are going back and forth on this - Yangchen was not going to win the battle against Old Iron, but she was still capable of knocking him down with her bending and taking the fight to him for a whole night, neither of which Aang or Toph were able to do, in fact they even battle and halfway through the fight say they aren't winning. Even if Yangchen isn't killing the spirit, there is still a world of difference in the quality of a bender who can stalemate a massive threat and someone that lost in minutes. Of all the people that interacted with Old Iron, Yangchen demonstrated the best showings without the avatar state.
The barrier was indeed raised by every single professor in Hogwarts, so obviously I'm not trying to scale Grindelwald over the combined might of them, I merely showed how the spell would act, but that would at a lesser power level.
To quantify what the shield could withstand, I linked the shield charm casted by one of his followers - link. (Remove the '/' at the end of the gif to view it, since CV throws up issues). Here the wizard casts the more basic Protego shield charm to protect himself from a building getting destroyed. Now the version of barrier the professors used is a more advanced version of the shield charm, since they are casting the stronger version of Protego (Protego Maxima), strengthening the shield charm with an additional spell (Fianto Duri). To give a baseline, the shield barrier would effortlessly hold up to damage on the same level as the gif linked above.
About the disintegration part, the disintegration isn't the same as the ones which you usually calculate. The same spell wouldn't disintegrate a building sized object or something, it's more of a style to show killing people. To further add to it, any spell in the franchise caps out below building tier beside one outlier moment.
I'll counter some of your remaining arguments since I wanted to do a post that basically reinforces my team's capability and also keep the final post from exploding too much.
Grindelwald:
My team's best fighter and undeniably the most versatile combatant here.
He is capable of teleporting in battles and use it strategically, which ensures your team would be extremely hard pressed to land a strike on him.
He is a capable Occulumens (someone capable of blocking their mind from intrusions) -- likely the best in that area, which means it would take quite some effort to break into his mind.
His transfiguration and telekinesis can be applied on any object in the area and would take anyone off guard immediately because he would be able to simply to turn the opponent's attack into nothing, or worse, use it to his advantage by making the object attack his opposition or transfigure into a snake.
His fire magic is his best offensive measure, the three best methods include - blasts of fire that are hot enough to burn white; dark fir shield that kills people on contact and stops them from teleporting and could also be transformed into sentient beings, talking of which; fiendfyre - a semi-sentient fire that is the most dangerous form of magic in the franchise - which is a spell known to students in Hogwarts.
Yangchen:
Arguably the most powerful person being invovled here.
On her own, she could take down Katara and has a very clear advantage in power, speed against Neku.
Yangchen is the most mobile of the lot here, she is the fastest person of the lot here.
Raiden, drones and the VIP:
Raiden mainly controls the drones, teleporting them from one spot to another, if necessary.
The drones and the VIP are invisible.
Only Neku is capable of finding the VIP through scanning, but that would also leave him open.
The drones would able to kill Katara if they land a clean hit when they are invisible. The battlefield being covered in mist, dust, etc. would help this to our advantage.
The VIP will be secured in the middle of Grindelwald's fire charm which would be able to kill any enemies.
Katara's additional source of water here, you have posted multiple moments when she conjures water from air and all of them aren't filling the gap in volume between what rain provides and what she needs to flood the place.
You're missing the point, if she can gather water from thin air, and her surroundings, she can stack onto her attacks and constantly build them up. The reason i brought up the factory feat because it shows you how much water she can pull from a far distance without even seeing the water. This is why I keep bringing up the Hama feat, because Hama not only is pulling water from the grass she pulled from other sources at the same time to stack her attack in size. This isn't taking hours to accomplish when there would be large puddles and rain everywhere, it just wouldn't realistically. Remember, she can flash freeze with no additonal water source.
This doesn't matter the way you think it does, and even then, this could be done while on the move like I discussed in my last post.
Lastly, to clarify one other scene you posted, her feats fromRiftwhere she saves people during rain is Katara bending right in front of an ocean.
Except she wasn't she was standing away from the ocean, meanwhile Sokka and the spirit had the ocean behind them, in addition by the time Katara intervenes, Iron was already walking towards the refinery.
Or if Katara bends more water than what he could transfigure, he could simply vaporize them with his fire magic that is powerful enough to dothisor simply teleport out of that spot.
Summarizing it, Grindelwald would be able to transfigure anything in and around the place, even Neku's swords, fire, etc.
Some of Neku's attacks are pure energy, has he demonstrated transfiguring energy attacks? From what i've seen he's used this against certain elements, magic attacks, and inanimate objects.
Coming to the mechanics of scanning, from your own description about the Noise, they are still beings alive with a mind right? Not technological gadgets of sorts, so I don't see how this translates to finding three drones.
Uh no, Noise are astral beings, they are literally invisible and can only be seen through scanning, that's the point. Scanning isn't just reading the mind, I'll post it again in case the voters don't want to scroll again.
You also must have missed what I posted in the same section, scanning allows one to detect the unseeable. Here it is again:
This is solid because Noise exists on another plane of existence entirely, meaning, your standard level of invisibility will not work here.
Meaning, Neku will have no problems detecting the drones, Neku will also have no problem seeing the wall of flames.
These are essentially astral beings that operate on another plane of existence. What's cool about Scanning is that its not just to read minds. Noise are invisible monsters that exist on another plane of existence that can only be sensed through a player's scanning.
You're drones don't matter, and your wall doesn't matter.
Even if you are right in that he is capable of finding my drones, how would Neku know when to scan? All your evidences so far only show Neku doing one task at a time, not multitasking, like say scanning and fighting, nor does the ability seem to work passively like say Queenie's.
It worked automatically when he first gained the power, and he seems to be able to at least sense danger before it comes, like in episode 6 of the anime(16:05)
Top tier wizards generally use legilimency and Occulumency pretty actively both in combat and out of it, it also is a skill that sets them apart from good wizards. In a situation like this when Grindelwald seeking to save a person, he would absolutely want to maximize his chance of victory and that includes Occulumency as well.
Im asking about Grindelwald, not other top wizards, what are his habits? When does he use it? What situations does he find himself using it?
This looks really good for Neku, but Grindelwald has protected his mind from the greatest mind reader in the Wizarding world, a franchise with people capable of blocking thoughts -- means he should be capable of stopping Neku from reading his thoughts. If I draw a parallel here, Neku seems to be someone that can intrude and read memories of people that can shield themselves, which is very much what Voldemort did at the peak of his powers and a frail, old, out of practice Grindelwald managed to shield his mind from Tom. Even if eventually Neku proves to be too much on scanning, it will still take some time to get through and I don't see Neku multi tasking to keep up with Grindelwald's other magic.
This is essentially losing sight of the forest for the trees, simply because we didn't see each and every move doesn't invalidate the whole feat in itself. The fight clearly paints a picture of what Yangchen was capable of and juxtaposes that with showing Toph and Aang actually trying to fight the spirit and accept inferiority during the battle. It's not the case of where Toph saying she is incapable of taking on Old Iron without even knowing who he is, she is standing right in front of him and the moment he turns his attention towards her, she simply says she can't hold him off. This is quite literally Toph losing a battle against him and needed Aang intervening.
There is an extreme amount of problems with this argumentation that is easy as hell to pick apart if you know about the comics, this arc and the TV Show and considering Katara and Toph's feats IN THIS ARC, its shabby at best.
Toph has one of the best defensive feats in the entire verse from a non-bender in the form of blocking three fireballs from an Avatar Aang who was aiming to destroy a refinery
Katara, who we both agree is Toph's equal(IIRC you mentioned this in your opener) blocked a punch from Old Iron casually with a small ice construct, meanwhile Yangchen has only been depicted doing so while in the Avatar State.
Also something you conveniently ignored me mentioning is that right before Toph's altercation with both Aang and General Old Iron, Toph was unconscious after bending tons of metal to save Katara and her father for a sustained period of time. This is literally at the beginning of the Rift, Its a lot of scans, but for everyone's convenience, check out this link where you can read the Rift part 3. If Toph has the same tier of feats as Aang and Katara, her being exhausted, and wanted to protect her students are the only logical explanation, either that or its a low showing that can be considered an outlier given Toph's long extensive history.
I'll cut short about what I have told in my previous two posts since we are going back and forth on this - Yangchen was not going to win the battle against Old Iron, but she was still capable of knocking him down with her bending
The insane part about this is you are blowing it out of proportion. Also quite frankly, I already called you out on this in the first post, you cannot have your cake and eat it too. There is no skillful application of firebending that can be down to knock down General Old Iron, that Aang couldn't have possibly done with Earthbending a massive construct that matches his size while in the avatar state. Either you are scaling Yangchen over Avatar State aang, and are blatantly over the limits, because of that fact or this feat isn't as impressive as you think it is, since neither parties invovled could put him down with his armor. Pick a lane, there is no other choice based off the info available. If Yangchen did this with air bending, or maybe environmental bending, sure, I can see what you would be saying, but she did this with the most direct element of the four, meaning you would have to be implying she did this with brute force.
Even then, stopping the momentum of his punches entirely with bending constructs is an equally impressive feat whether you like it or not, and Yangchen only accomplished this while in her Avatar state. No analogy to forests and trees matters here, the fact is you have no information or feats to support your claim in a meaningful way, if Yangchen did indeed knock over Old Iron, then that means she outperformed Aang in the Avatar State, the only other explanation to make this work is to argue Old Iron got stronger which would line up well with your interpretation of Team Avatar's performance given Yangchen is the only one who knocked him down, which is an impressive feat in your eyes.
I'm going to say what I said before, Toph has actual mobility feats, has various options to get away from Old Iron, but didn't use any of them, Toph was basically unconscious a few minutes ago after her metalbending feat at the beginning of the rift, and Toph in the same arc has feats on the same tier as Katara and Yangchen, nothing you said proves anything, the characters we have been discussing are relative at best, Yangchen having a slight advantage at best due to her versatility as the Avatar. Fighting General Old Iron, who's only options of attack are throwing punches and tanking hits, isn't an impressive feat, your logic is flawed because you said Old Iron is too fast for Toph, yet Katara who YOU said was an equal to, reacted to Old Iron just fine.
This feat straight up sucks in hindsight, for what you are trying to do.
The barrier was indeed raised by every single professor in Hogwarts, so obviously I'm not trying to scale Grindelwald over the combined might of them, I merely showed how the spell would act, but that would at a lesser power level.
To quantify what the shield could withstand, I linked the shield charm casted by one of his followers - link. (Remove the '/' at the end of the gif to view it, since CV throws up issues). Here the wizard casts the more basic Protego shield charm to protect himself from a building getting destroyed. Now the version of barrier the professors used is a more advanced version of the shield charm, since they are casting the stronger version of Protego (Protego Maxima), strengthening the shield charm with an additional spell (Fianto Duri). To give a baseline, the shield barrier would effortlessly hold up to damage on the same level as the gif linked above.
About the disintegration part, the disintegration isn't the same as the ones which you usually calculate. The same spell wouldn't disintegrate a building sized object or something, it's more of a style to show killing people. To further add to it, any spell in the franchise caps out below building tier beside one outlier moment.
1.Then that tells me nothing about the scale the shield would operate at under Grindelwald and considering you cited what was accomplished with that spell, I can only assume you were trying to scale.
2. All I really saw was the interior of the building being destroyed and portions of it being destroyed, even then, that isn't enough against both Neku and Katara who are in that tier with their attacks, their combined might would likely destroy the shield, especially with the rain bolstering her force.
3.Cool so its just fire. Not sure what the threat is then. You mention later in your conclusion that his fire is white hot, Azula's fire is blue which is higher on the scale. Not really as threatening as you think it is.
The rest of your conclusions are unfounded, but I will tackle them one at a time, since I am pressed for time.
Yanchen isn't faster than Neku, like at all, as far as travel speed, he can amp himself to move at supersonic speeds, which not even Aang or Zaheer could do with airbending or flight respectively, he has reacted to Reapers who can create afterimages with their speed, and scales to characters who can react to bullets. There is no speed advantage here.
There is no indication that scanning hinders him in any capacity, especially when he has been shown sensing danger before it approaches in Episode 6 of the anime. Scanning is also more than just reading minds, which means your entire plan falls apart at the seams.
Raiden would have to fire off bolts of lightning to teleport the drones which would make his position known and make the position of the drones known once they are summoned to a new location given how his teleportation works. All this does is make it easier for Neku to snipe them.
Neku has so many options to take on your team with Grindelwald being the only one with the flexibility to do anything and he's a point lower than Neku and much slower.
Vote for whoever was the best debater, or who convinced you more, not for which team you think would win.
Make sure to provide reasoning for your vote.
Votes based on obvious character bias will not be counted. (I know the CV Avatar community and their opinions very well, so I will be especially vigilant about this.)
Be respectful, honourable, and civil.
In the event of a tie, I will vote to break it. Voting will remain open for 4-5 days.
Alright, I've skimmed through it somewhat and now I need to go in depth because I see some compelling arguments for what I once thought was a wash. So far DeathHero61's defense of Katara against Yanchen is intriguing, but I'm equally impressed at viking1205's representation of Grindelwald... Neku reminds me of Kingdom Hearts Dream Drop Distance character but in the Persona universe for some reason... His feats are impressive but I'll have to review them further... I'm curious to see how Raiden will be able to get in on the action despite his limited feats.
There was a lot of confusing aspects to this debate. I understand the time crunch in tourneys is real and elaboration was replaced with conciseness, but to my understanding, these were the main points of contention:
Yangchen and Katara's battlefield control
Grindelwald and Neku's versatility Grindelwald's shield Neku's Scanning
Raiden and the drones (this seemed like it won't matter though in the grand scheme of things)
Based on everything presented, and me not feeling like re-reading the entire CaV again to find exact examples, it's hard for me to break these down individually. But I think the big thing here is that Death admitted in his second post that Yangchen would end up beating Katara:
the longer the fight goes between Yangchen and her the more likely she is to lose
albeit an obvious enough conclusion. At the very least within the confines of this debate, Yangchen is beating Katara eventually. And while I think Death did take a more offensive approach to this debate, with Viking a bit more on the defensive, his arguments regarding Neku (the only character I'm not already familiar with here, so I'm going totally off of what Death presented) were not solid enough to give his team the necessary advantages to complete the objective. I am convinced that Neku is the fastest here overall, between the benders and Grindelwald in versatility, and would know about the invisible objects in the area with a very good chance of being able to determine the opposition's plans, at least Yangchen's who would obviously be observing Grindelwald. But despite his versatility, Death didn't really convince me of his actual power level in any reasonable way. The power behind Grindelwald's spells weren't really addressed in any major way that I understood on Neku's part.
I wish Viking had been a bit more diligent on exactly why Grindelwald could do the same things that weaker wizards can, because I think Death was unfairly critical of both Yangchen and Grindelwald's scaling in his counters, but Viking also has the advantage that Death wasn't countering on some big points regarding Grindelwald because he spent a great deal of focus on Yangchen, who he perceived to be the powerhouse of the team based on her raw power. For example, I don't recall Grindelwald's legitimate, on screen feat of Protego Diabolica that he used in Paris being countered because Death was focused on the scaling to Voldemort and some fodder students who were obviously so far beneath Grindelwald that anything they can do, Grindelwald can most definitely do. So I'm stuck between Viking not pushing it and Death not really commenting on how his duo would deal with it. As a voter, that's honestly frustrating (again, to be expected of a tournament with deadlines) but the impression I come away with is that Death clearly felt the need to counter Grindelwald doing it through scaling because he didn't comment on the feat itself, but did try to convince me that there isn't proof of Grindelwald doing something similar--functionally the same, for that matter--that a near-fodder did. | This "feats only"-ish mindset is one of the things that bugs me most about the debate as it does on the site in general. This was also a big issue with the Yangchen vs Old Iron aspect (thankfully Yangchen > Katara was admitted and I don't have to trudge through both sides' logic regarding that fight) and it's really sad when we see people not even give the slightest bit of leeway because they want to try and persuade voters into believing things that make no sense, like Grindelwald somehow being incapable of or unwilling to use Crabbe-tier magic simply because he hasn't done such. While I'm willing to assume he can't for this debate since Viking doesn't have exact evidence of him doing such (and that's where the uncontested Diabolica feat comes in, if it wasn't clear), Death still tried to cast doubt as if I would find that remotely reasonable as an argument. Though again, this did have its merits within the confines of the debate, and it's pretty easy to cast doubt on characters like Yangchen and Grindelwald if you don't have prior knowledge on either series (and I know personally that Viking is prone to make generous assumptions of their own).
As far as the shield goes, I was convinced that Neku and Katara can break it and kill their target if left unattended. But from everything I read, it seems like they'd have to personally kill Yangchen and Grindelwald for that to happen. I'm more inclined to believe that Yangchen vs Katara is taking place than anything else, which is a set in stone win for Yangchen, which leaves Grindelwald vs Neku. Neku's strong point, above all, seemed to be his ability to spawn attacks on characters, which I could see working well if not for Grindelwald's teleportation that Viking proved he'd use in active combat. Apparition seems much quicker than Neku's teleportation, and Grindelwald in general was proven to be the more versatile character all things considered, while Death failed to prove to me that Neku has a power advantage. I can see Neku holding out with his stats (particularly speed and durability), defenses and point-blank spawned attacks, and he can definitely kill either of his opponents if he gets a well placed hit with his more lethal moves, but I see Grindelwald, if not beating him, holding out until Yangchen wins due to that superior versatility. I don't fully feel the need to comment on the opposite match-ups happening since they really seem much less likely to me.
With all this said, I'm giving my vote to Viking. Death having Katara and Viking have a Yangchen put him at a disadvantage from the very start that he couldn't make up with Neku while Viking also had Grindelwald. I'm willing to touch on anything either voter felt I missed. And thank you both for a good read!
@deathhero61@viking1205: This was an enjoyable read. Death, I am glad to see you back in action after what I believe has been a while. Viking, I'm glad to see you stepping out into competitive-general debating.
Voting in matchups involving characters I believe I have deep knowledge on is always difficult, because I need to largely separate my own views from what is actually shown. But at least I don't think it should happen fully, as each voter comes in and gives their take with their own background info and line of thinking. With that said, I will be voting for @viking1205. While Death convinced me on several aspects (the drones being ineffective, Neku's scanning allowing for his team to nullify the surprise factors of Viking's team's defences, his team's ability to breach the protego barrier et cetera), in the end, this came down to a straight up fight, and I just wasn't convinced it would be more than a challenge for Yangchen and Grindelwald.
I actually feel like Death showed more than enough to show how Katara would make a bending duel with Yangchen competitive through the weather conditions, but, sort of that, not much else was proven. I was left unconvinced by Neku's ability to fight either opponent efficiently here, really. He had some cool moves, but everything seemed to be restricted to relatively close range combat, which, against people of this scale and power level, it's just hard to envision getting to that at all, not with Katara having her hands full (to say the least) with either opponent. He's fast and versatile, but not much else. A lot of the best feats Viking brought up were left unanswered, including Yangchen's raw waterbending power being comparable to Katara's as well as her ability to limit the effectiveness of the rain/mist bending, her speed and environmental airbending, which Katara would be unprepared for, and a very large part of Grindelwald's arsenal. Death chose to focus on the things he could definitely cast doubt on, that is, in-verse/logical scaling, and this part is subjective enough to bite Viking's team in the bottoms, but it was not enough to circumvent what seems to be an unbalanced battle from the get-go. Death's final post still questioned transfiguration being enough to deal with energy attacks (which makes no sense to me as a question) and going as far as to call Yangchen's battle with Old Iron a feat that sucks. I think it was clear by that point he had to resort to actively undermining the opponents' abilities to have a shot.
I think Death could've convinced me more if he had accepted a direct confrontation simply not being in his favour as is, and utilised a more creative approach, like how the heavy rain along with Katara's environmental control could potentially let his team kill the VIP without the need to win or even battle against the other team. I think this was sort of hinted at at points (like when he mentioned that chaos would ensue in the bending battle), but it remained unclear.
Good job to the both of you. A strong opening round for whomever moves forward. Good luck!
Vote for whoever was the best debater, or who convinced you more, not for which team you think would win.
Make sure to provide reasoning for your vote.
Votes based on obvious character bias will not be counted. (I know the CV Avatar community and their opinions very well, so I will be especially vigilant about this.)
Be respectful, honourable, and civil.
In the event of a tie, I will vote to break it. Voting will remain open for 4-5 days.
I cannot accept Ancient's vote as he did not provide any reasoning, including after I informed him that I could not count his vote until reasoning was given.
So with 2 votes for Viking, he is the winner and moves on to the next round!
Excellent job to the both of you. I love seeing Avatar characters getting used in tournaments.
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