Jean Grey & Invisible Woman run a Marvel Gauntlet [PLS READ OP]

TITLE IS A LIE, THIS IS NOT A GAUNTET. WHICH OF THESE DUOS CAN JEAN & SUE BEAT?

RULES:

Everyone is current unless stated otherwise

Start at opposite ends of the X-Men Mansion front lawn

Round 1 - everyone morals on

Round 2 - everyone bloodlusted

Challengers:

• Savage Hulk & Apocalypse
• Black Bolt & Quake [both have royal family TP defenses]
• Magneto & Storm
• Vulcan & Human Torch
• Thor (base form) & Beta Ray Bill
• Wanda (base form) & Professor X (no cerebro)
• Ironman (his usual suit) & Captain Marvel [both have Stark tp-shields]
• Dr. Doom & Red Onslaught
• Ikaris & Sersi

They clear with moderate difficulty although the bloodlusted round they might have probably with some characters but nothing that would stop them

Ikaris and Sersi.

Iron Man and Carol Danvers

I thought this was the Gauntlet. You April Fools me 😂

The Thor and Bill will be Most difficult but Jean and Sue clear I believe

Seems like these battles are strategically made for Jean and Sue to win most rds....

Either way, Sue is MVP in most if not all rds that they can win!

Savage Hulk & Apocalypse

- Round 1: Apocalypse could probably prolong a TP battle with Jean, but eventually lose. The duo then 2v1 Hulk.

- Round 2: Bloodlusted Hulk isn't getting TP'd. He steamrolls.

Black Bolt & Quake

- Round 1: Don't know how good said TP defences are, but it doesn't really matter. Jean TKs both of the royals.

- Round 2: If Bolt goes for a scream off the bat, the royals could probably win. If not, Sue and Jean easily.

Magneto & Storm

- It's probably 50/50 between Magneto and whoever he fights. The other solos Storm and 2v1's Magneto.

Vulcan & Human Torch

- Vulcan can just drain everyone, can't he? And IIRC he's got really solid TP defense. Torch gets TP'd or gets comfortably beaten by Sue.

Thor (base form) & Beta Ray Bill

- Jean and Sue win both rounds.

Wanda (base form) & Professor X (no cerebro)

- Jean and Sue both round. They're far more well-rounded than Wanda. Jean can beat Xavier.

Ironman (his usual suit) & Captain Marvel [both have Stark tp-shields]

- Jean and Sue both rounds, easily.

Dr. Doom & Red Onslaught

- If Doom is serious about winning he could probably take Sue. I don't recall Onslaught doing anything Jean-level telepathically. Probably Jean and Sue for a majority both rounds.

Ikaris & Sersi

- Jean and Sue, comfortably.

Honestly, they clear in both rounds. The hardest round would probably be Thor & BRB for morals on, and Black Bolt & Quake for morals off.

They clear with high difficulty

- Isn't Savage Hulk, and most every version of Hulk for that matter, ridiculously resistant to telepathy? If he's bloodlusted, he's not gonna get TP'd. Jean's TK can't match his damage output, and I don't remember Sue doing anything that would be able to put Hulk down.

- On that note, hasn't Apocalypse defeat Jean in telepathic battles before, or at least held his own impressively?

- I figured Thor & BRB to be one of the rounds where Jean and Sue clear most times without too much issue. TP on Thor and BRB is considerably weaker than Thor so Sue should be able to handle him.

- Vulcan would still be able to drain both right? Psionic energy, humans are technically made of energy, etc. And it's certainly not out-of-character for Vulcan to drain off the bat.

- How good is the Royal Family TP Defenses thinggy?

- Also sorry, I've been tagging you a ton recently >_<

1) Hulk is normally quite resistant to telepathy, but he has been affected by telepaths at or below Jean's level on several occasions. She also has tons of feats penetrating the minds of supposedly immune or highly-resistant characters.

Her TK isn't powerful enough to harm Hulk, but she can at least use it defensively. Hulk is also a brick, meaning he would be severely lacking in options if Jean is flying.

As for Sue, her force fields are definitely good enough to deal with Hulk, though it won't be easy.

2) Apocalypse is a massive jobber with a very inconsistent track record. His psychic defences are good, but his offensive TP is garbage. Jean would definitely beat him.

3) Thor and BRB probably have the best physicals from any of the rounds, with some lightning and other versatile options to add to it. Thor's TP defences are solid too, but again, has been affected by weaker telepaths like Moondragon.

4) Jean is better than Vulcan when it comes to draining psionic energy. He has affected Rachel before, but Rachel has affected him too.

5) Good enough to keep out the Stepford Cuckoos, but they stated that Emma Frost could likely bypass them.

6) No worries lol.

If you want to learn more about the psychics, here you go: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/x-men/4060-3173/forums/x-men-psychics-respect-threads-2015730/

The Order seems out of place. But:

Challengers:

• Savage Hulk & Apocalypse - Jean/Sue Lose Both Rounds.
• Black Bolt & Quake - Jean/Sue Win Both Rounds.
• Magneto & Storm - Jean/Sue Lose Round 1. Win Round 2.
• Vulcan & Human Torch - Jean/Sue Lose Round 1. Win Round 2.
• Thor (base form) & Beta Ray Bill - Jean/Sue Lose Round 1. Win Round 2.
• Wanda (base form) & Professor X (no cerebro) - Jean/Sue Win Both Rounds.
• Ironman (his usual suit) & Captain Marvel [both have Stark tp-shields] - Jean/Sue Win Both Rounds.
• Dr. Doom & Red Onslaught - Jean/Sue Lose Both Rounds.
• Ikaris & Sersi - Jean/Sue Win Both Rounds.

@mooty_pass: it is not arranged in any order since it's not a gauntlet

Jean is NOT beating Apocalypse with TP! She FAILS to penetrate his defenses and gets KOd.

But Sue would def be a big problem....

@marvelfan1992: Oh ok. Gotcha

-Which is more consistent for Hulk? If he's got nearly an equal amount of TP resistance feats as he has feats of getting TP'd, I'd give more credit to his resistance feats, because feats and whatnot. One thunderclap should easily counter Jean flying. Add the incredible speed and power his jumps have, and Jean flying should be no issue at all.

Any Hulk or high-tier of that level wailing on Sue's fields should destroy her shields rather quickly. The duo aren't going to accumulate enough damage to logically put Hulk down before he overwhelms them. Add the fact that Apocalypse, despite being the big succ, does indeed have good TP defenses, appreciable offensive TP, and he's rather versatile with his Molecule Manipulation, Matter Manipulation, regen, strength, etc. He's far from a non-factor in this battle. He can, at least, distract one of the two while Hulk destroys the other.

- TBH, Jean and Sue would struggle a lot less with Thor and BRB than they would with Hulk. Hulk is kind of a full package. Thor is susceptible to TP, as you mentioned, and the power gap between Thor and BRB is enough that Sue shouldn't struggle too much with BRB.

- Jean can drain psionic energy?! Woah. Never knew that. Regardless though, Vulcan is the textbook definition of an OP energy manipulator. If it's energy, Vulcan should have little to no struggle in absorbing it, unless I'm wrong with that assertion. I'd go as far as saying even Quasar could drain the likes of Sue or Jean, and Vulcan's far above him. Any form of offense or defense from Jean or Sue will contain a considerable amount of energy. Even their mere make-up is energy in matter and whatnot. There's no reason why someone as good as Vulcan can't drain them. Even releasing psionic attacks, telepathy, etc. would all be attacks/defenses that Vulcan can immediately counter by absorbing that energy. It's not even like Vulcan has good strength or other forms of attacks that he can use to job. All he does is manipulate energy. I hope I'm not wanking his capabilities or blowing them out of proportion. He's only been beaten in the energy manip. category by those more impressive like Warlock. IIRC, he's got a really good track record in terms of wins and losses.

- Okay, so the Royals' TP defense is competent. Even then, Sue could probably beat them in-character and Jean would eventually be able to break their defenses. She's got more impressive TK AP than either of the Inhumans anyways. It's probably Sue and Jean's loss in the bloodlusted round, but that's only because I know Black Bolt's scream stuff is legit. Don't know anything about Quake. Is she a factor in their potential loss?

@boutatakeanl: nah, I don't think you're wanking Vulcan with the psionic energy manipulation stuff. It's definitely in his capacity as a high level omega energy manipulator

Logically, he should be able to manipulate it as good as her, even if not better.

But currently she has better feats at it than him, so I guess that's why it's still debatable.

Like Magneto, storm and polaris. Are the top 3 best at electro magnetic energy manipulation, logically Vulcan should be on their level or above, but people will still argue about it because he doesn't have feats on their level.

(lol, I guess "omega" status giving people a ranking higher than others with better feats just annoys some fans. Like, would Vulcan be a better energy manipulator than silver surfer because he's an omega? Exodus is an omega telekinetic, but people like surfer, Cable, Rachel, Nate grey etc have better feats, so their fans can get annoyed about it. Quentin Quire is an omega telepath, he should be the pinnacle of telepathy, but no one is going to back him up against moondragon or British psylocke or Emma frost. Even Jean's omega status doesn't give her the win because we know Xavier, Cassandra Nova, Shadow king, Surfer and some others are on her level and can take her down)

To be honest, Vulcan feats of resisting telepathy were mostly from when he was fused with Darwin, so there's an argument that he was able to do that because Darwin amped him (also because he started getting affected by telepathic attacks after he lost Darwin, and that Xavier used tp on him before he got Darwin) , but then there's the feat of him stealing a psychic connection and depowering the enemy that was channeling it, so it's obvious that his manipulation of psionic energy is still intricate and high.

Doesn't Quake always go for internal attacks? Can he attacks bypass psionic forcefields?

- All fair arguments. I just think that Energy Manip. is his immediate go-to attack. He's going to drain everyone on the battlefield, even his own teammate XD. I can't see Sue countering that, and even if Jean can counter it, it's still a 2v1 against her.

- Thanks for the context on his feats for resisting telepathy. I never knew he fused with Darwin when achieved most of those feats. But even at a base level, it would still take Jean a considerable amount of time to break his TP defenses. That is all time spent getting drained by him. Wouldn't Xavier and Jean have already tried TP'ing him before his fusion with Darwin, but they would have failed? I'd assume that's one of the factors that make him such a huge threat to the X-Men

^ Well said!

•Savage Hulk/Apocalypse: Jean and Sue win, so long as Jean targets Hulk’s mind first before he can get too angry both rounds. She has gotten through before even when Hulk was angry at the X-Men in her early Marvel Girl days. Even then, Jean also has powerful enough tk to defend herself and keep her distance.

Sue already has feats of going toe-to-toe with Apocalypse and he has no feats of penetrating her level of defense. If roles reverse, it will be a losing battle only because of Hulk’s anger being a factor.

•Black Bolt/Quake: Jean and Sue win most battles in both rounds. I’m uncertain about Quake’s internal capabilities through force fields, but since Black Bolt gets walled out by both women on all except his voice and will get shut down by Jean (since neither of them are gonna give him a chance to shout at them), this shouldn’t be a hard fight.

The Royal Family defenses have been scaled in the comics before. Emma has surpassed multiple members on her own for a prolonged period of time while affecting other people in the vicinity and Rachel has stated that both she and Jean are more powerful than their defenses. It’s a decisive win, even if Quake gets the same treatment

•Magneto & Storm: 50/50 on a variety of factors. My money is that if either Jean or Sue go down in either round, the elemental omega’s win.

This is by far the closest fight.

•Vulcan & Human Torch: Decisive win for the ladies in both rounds.

Vulcan’s psi defense feats were respectable when he was merged with Darwin. Don’t have anything to scale him without Darwin. Assuming they are anywhere near the same level, I’d imagine Jean would meet some resistance. If she reverts to pink form though, it’s a decisive win.

Sue knows how to handle her brother, so he won’t be as much of an issue as Vulcan would if Jean were to take Sue’s place and vice versa.

•Thor (base form) & Beta Ray Bill: Thor has very inconsistent psychic defenses and both ladies have good enough defenses to not completely be dominated by Thor in the first round.

Second round will need Jean to absolutely take them both out or else it’s a decisive lost.

•Wanda (base form) & Professor X (no cerebro): Oof, this might actually be the first lost if Sue doesn’t go for internals first round immediately.

Second round, Sue will have to mvp this because Xavier is stalling Jean for Wanda to start messing with Sue’s powers.

•Ironman (his usual suit) & Captain Marvel [both have Stark tp-shields]: Decisive win for the ladies. The Stark psionic shields are only prolonging the inevitable, since I don’t see either penetrating Sue’s shields (especially if Jean fortifies Sue with her own tk or amps her powers with tp), even together. Unless it’s one of Tony’s god armors, but I don’t think the op is talking about Tony having that access if they specify his usual suit.

•Dr. Doom & Red Onslaught: This might be a decisive lost cause for the ladies because of Doctor Doom in both rounds. If Doom defeats Sue quick enough, he can probably 2 v 1 Jean when she is busy. Red Skull isn’t winning a 1 v 1, but he might have the power necessary to stall Jean.

•Ikaris & Sersi: So long as Sue defends against Ikaris, Jean can shut them both down. Sersi’s matter manipulation does not normally kill, cannot penetrate Sue’s force field, and Jean‘s pink form can counter if absolutely necessary.

Overall, ladies can win most rounds here. Sue is a great partner for Jean.

• Savage Hulk & Apocalypse - Sue should honestly be able to beat Apocalypse. He has never consistently shown he's capable of offense that can take down her shields. Add to that the fact that Sue's force fields feel like they are a sort of kryptonite towards celestial tech. Jean could also pull off a TP win against Hulk as she has shown to be able to do before
• Black Bolt & Quake [both have royal family TP defenses] - Those psi defenses won't hold, and nothing barring a scream can get through their combined defenses. Jean and Sue win
• Magneto & Storm - Whoever fights Magneto will be in it for the long haul, but as powerful as Storm is, her lack of defenses and durability can be exploited and she can be taken down the most easily out of anyone here. Jean and Sue take it
• Vulcan & Human Torch - Torch gets taken down quickly with telepathy and Vulcan follows suit
• Thor (base form) & Beta Ray Bill - Sue and Jean i a great fight. I don't know about Ray's psychic defenses
• Wanda (base form) & Professor X (no cerebro) - Sue and Jean. I think Sue would beat Wanda while Jean and Xavier are locked in their engagement. Jean could also abuse her TK against Xavier
• Ironman (his usual suit) & Captain Marvel [both have Stark tp-shields] - Jean and Sue can definitely shield from whatever Ironman and Captain Marvel dish out while Jean works on those psi defenses, which won't last forever against her
• Dr. Doom & Red Onslaught - Sue actually has a pretty good track record against Doom, and Red Onslaught could give Jean trouble but would eventually fall. Jean and Sue
• Ikaris & Sersi - Jean can take out Ikaris with telepathy while Sue is busy fighting Sersi, or the other way around

They Get WRECKED at Thor and Bill But can beat most others

@ecstaticgrace said:

They're not all called the "Royals"? I thought that was another name for the Inhumans XD.

I did not know that. Thank you!

1) Having a 1 to 1 ratio in consistency does not instill any faith, especially if you are arguing against the most powerful telepath on the planet who has a history of penetrating Hulk’s defense. I gave credit where it’s due to Hulk in that his anger is a problem and is the main reason why it’s not an easy win.

Hulk’s bloodlust isn’t necessarily tied to his anger, as we have seen him not just attempt to kill his opponents before, but actually seek them out without tapping into his full anger. There is no reason to believe that Hulk wanting to kill Jean or Sue means he is starting out royally pissed at them.

2) Storm has been overhyped before, but I don’t want to fall into the danger of absolutely low-balling her. She still has speed feats on par with Jean and Sue and has more battlefield control than the girls.

So, putting her with Magneto complicates things when you consider that Magneto has scrambled Xavier’s telepathy before and Storm has hurt Charles before with her lightning storms. Jean has the benefit of Sue’s shields, but she isn’t having an easy time getting past both Magneto and Storm scrambling her telepathy.

3) Jean’s pink form is literally made to absorb psionic energy from both living and non-living things and she has absorbed on. a much grander scale than Vulcan could ever dream of. Ergo @del_torro’s point about Vulcan being a good counter in theory, but not in feats.

Emma was tracking amped-Vulcan. We can thank Darwin for that psychic resistance to both Rachel and Emma in that story.

4) I think you got it backwards.

The morals round gives Wanda the advantage to mess with the force fields via chaos magic because Sue would hesitate to kill and the bloodlust round is Sue aiming for internals as she has done in-character to Wolverine.

5) Most site Red Onslaught’s planetary psionic hate wave as a feat for him against Jean, as well as the fact that he is using Charles telepathy. Pre-AXIS Red Skull has nearly stomped Legion before getting full control of his powers and he soon “masters“ his powers in Uncanny Avengers. He isn’t beating Jean in a 1-on-1, but there is argument there to say she doesn’t completely stomp.

Sue handles Doom regularly? That’s not something I hear usually. I won’t argue, but I am rather confused.

@pyrofn: Well, I hard concede, but I'm going to keep trying:

- Fair, but I'd also be arguing for one who is technically among the best at resisting telepathy. Hulk's insane TP resistance isn't based purely off his anger, is it?

- I still don't see how Storm wouldn't just get immediately dropped by Jean or Sue. Storm just isn't on par with either of them. It should become a rapid 2v1.

- Was Vulcan's fusion with Darwin the reason he had such good TP resistance? Has that been established in the comics? I always thought his TP resistance was strictly a power of his own. What exactly has Jean done in terms of absorbing Psionic energy. Rather what are the feats that put her so decisively above Vulcan? Forgive my lack of knowledge, but is this "pink form" something she has regular and consistent access to? And when it's stated that she has the ability to absorb Psionic energy, does that mean any energy that is emitted from a power that is based on mental usage? Besides, Psionic energy isn't the only energy Jean is going to be giving off.

- It's not like Sue's only move is going to be a shield that Wanda can mess with, but I see what you're saying.

- I didn't know Red Onslaught was that good 0_0. All I've heard of him is that he doesn't match-up with Jean very well.

- Odd. I vaguely recall Sue having a really good track record against Doom, or at least being able to 1v1 him decisively, even if she'd end up losing.

They clear

Savage Hulk & Apocalypse

Sue and Jean win after a tough fight

Black Bolt & Quake

Sue and Jean win without too much trouble. Jean can shield from his physicals , Sue can shield from his voice and he get's one-shoted via TP. Quake is a non factor

Magneto & Storm

Sue and Jean win here. Whoever goes up against Erik is going to stalemate he has the defences to deal with both Jean and Sue as well as the offence to compete with Sue and outright overwhelm Jean. The problem here is Storm , her TP resistance feats are inconsistent at best and despite having poweful output she lacks the defence or durability to not get one-shoted by either Sue or Jean. Storm gets taken out rather quickly , Erik gets overwhelmed in a 2v1.

Vulcan & Human Torch

Sue doesn't really struggle with Johnny and puts him down rather quickly , Vulcan can counter Jean's TP but I don't see how he deals with TK and while he might be able to absorb Sue's constructs , a few Invisble constructs would be more than enough to take him out and I don't see him absorbing all of them especially the ones that aren't visible

Thor (base form) & Beta Ray Bil

Thor Get's put down with TP , Bill gets beaten by Sue.

Wanda (base form) & Professor X (no cerebro)

Without Cerebro I lean Jean beating Charles , Sue can deal with Wanda via better speed feats stornger defence and offence and decent counters to some of Wanda's hax.

Ironman (his usual suit) & Captain Marvel [both have Stark tp-shields]

Emma was pretty confident in dealing with Stark's TP Tech So Jean shouldn't have much problems dealing with it Sue and Jean shield as Jean works her way and eventually breaks through Stark's TP tech.

Dr. Doom & Red Onslaught

This is arguabley the hardest round , Sue has enough showings to say she can beat Doom and Jean would eventually take down RO after a hard fought fight

Ikaris & Sersi

Sue and Jean stomp either of them

Doom and red onslaught Doom in dan slott's run became a badass again defeating galactus and the ff at the same time it didn't stick because of Doom's only weakness and sue being here would definitely help red onslaugh is trouble on his own with doom's help no way they get through