Sakuna (JJK) vs Kaiju No.9 (KN8)
VS
Both are as of current chapters.
Death or Ko.
Both have some knowledge of the other form respect threads.
Battle in Tokyo.
Sakuna (JJK) vs Kaiju No.9 (KN8)
Thats where city busting and durable level fodder comes in. Last dozen chapters we see Fortitude 7.0 and 8.0 Kaiju fodder used as a summoned army by kaiju 9.
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Kaiju No.9 mentally was controlling and ordering 100s of Kaiju at a time, including five 9.0 Mega Kaiju (No.11-No.15) like chess pieces on the board. Able to mentally reach out across all of Japan at the same time through the senses of the other Kaiju and guide them during across the Japan country, in battles taking place in several cities, at the same time. Should be noted this army of Kaiju was made in few months time.
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After Kaiju No.11 to No.15 were killed we see that in addition to the Kaiju above that No.9 also made dozens of fodder 8.0 Mega Kaiju that he air drops as the next attack wave. Each one leveling skyscrapers with a single blast and taking skyscraper busting firepower.
@sirfizzwhizz said:
Thats where city busting and durable level fodder comes in. Last dozen chapters we see Fortitude 7.0 and 8.0 Kaiju fodder used as a summoned army by kaiju 9.
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Kaiju No.9 mentally was controlling and ordering 100s of Kaiju at a time, including five 9.0 Mega Kaiju (No.11-No.15) like chess pieces on the board. Able to mentally reach out across all of Japan at the same time through the senses of the other Kaiju and guide them during across the Japan country, in battles taking place in several cities, at the same time. Should be noted this army of Kaiju was made in few months time.
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After Kaiju No.11 to No.15 were killed we see that in addition to the Kaiju above that No.9 also made dozens of fodder 8.0 Mega Kaiju that he air drops as the next attack wave. Each one leveling skyscrapers with a single blast and taking skyscraper busting firepower.
I'm up to date with the series so I knew these already but this doesn't tell us much honestly. We already knew No. 9 was stronger than all of them. And destroying skyscrapers doesn't mean much considering Sukuna can dish out and tank Multi-City Block - Town Level attacks. Plus he has an extra set of arms and mouth now.
Whether the verse equalizations are applied or not, Sukuna's domain will whittle away at No. 9 and he can target the core directly with the new attack he learned too. No. 9 also didn't show any kind of fire resistance feats to my knowledge so the attack that turned a volcano curse into charcoal might do him some damage.
That said I see possible win-cons for No. 9 as well, just find it more likely for Sukuna to win for now.
@sirfizzwhizz said:
@garouhm: they are not made with prep though. That was only name He had all these fodder monsters from the beginning. It mostly he controls pre existing Kaiju.
That's like saying Dracula summoning wolves to attack you or Swamp Thing calling on the trees to attack you. They already exist and used for battles.
The horn Kaiju were healed and mind control to fight Kafka in the first battle with No.9
Then No.9 controlled the mushroom like Kaiju for his own ends in a random city battle.
Then next we see Ant Kaiju who never go above ground being controlled by No.9 to kill Isia and get No.2 powers.
Currently we see many already existing and pre made Kaiju invading a city.
This is not prep it what he has on hand. These are tools.and extensions of himself. No different than the Shikigama summons used in Jujutsu.
High-level ones are made by him and he can already amp pre-existing kaiju. We rarely see how he prepares and the time it takes for him to do so. Calling it applicable in a battle with no prep is a bit too much right now. Not to mention he doesn't make them with his power but likely utilizes the Earth to do so:
Don't know which Drac you are talking about so I don't have an opinion on that but doesn't ST instantaneously grow new plants or morph already existing ones? I don't think it's the same with No. 9 especially since we don't know the details of his monster strengthening and making. We only know he can throw monster carcasses around. We don't even know what he was doing before he came to the testing field to strengthen that monster. It's too early to say he is a summoner.
Again, it's different from Shikigamis. Shikigami in JJK are always available and can be called with a simple hand gesture. Has No. 9 shown a feat like that? Except for his meeting with Kafka, this guy always does his fights planned. He had the time and freedom to position the monsters and call for them when necessary. However, that's not the case in this battle and it's not even mentioned whether there were any monsters around he can control.
@garouhm: The Kaiju tht already exist as I said can be and have always been called on. No.9 is only stated to make "name daikaiju" to counter the strongest members of the self defense force. The horn Kaiju, Ant Kaiju, and many of the non name species of Level 7.0-8.0 Kaiju are just controlled and called on by No.9.
Pre existing Kaiju that No.9 called on and healed.
Pre existing kaiju that exist in the earths underground and called upon by No.9 to attack foes.
Again pre existing Spore Kaiju that been around awhile but controlled on mass scale by No.9 to attack and defend against his foes.
Then final battle no.9 summons out of nowhere his mass produce species of Kaiju army. This is totally in character and viable tactics.
Just like these are in character and battle thread worthy summoning's.
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Invincible Doc Seismic is able to summon multiple Kaiju and Magma Men in every battle as his equalizer vs foes. Its part of his standard gear.
Robot calls in via teleporter over hundreds of his Drones that he uses in every fight to overwhelm foes.
Or how Ultimate Dr Doom had a army of Doombots serving him a nd summon them in many fights to fight for him or bolster his power.
Or Aquaman who summons and uses sea creatures to bolster his power.
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All of this is the exact same as Shinigami in Jujutsu Kaisen. Same thing.
@garouhm: TBH even without the summons I think range attacks would kill Sakuna. More so since No.9 is arguably faster than Sakuna is. Easily staying out of his domain or spatial slashes range.
No.9 before molting is able to generate projectiles with speed and momentum enough to damage the armor of Kafka himself.
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No.9 before molting is able to root his limbs through a city block and launch his projectiles at all angles. The combine firepower destroys several multi story buildings and street below. Something he can do while staying out of Sakunas range and domain.
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No.9 after molting shows a single projectile now casual large building. His weakest attack same level as the one above which required several projectile. Now only one small one is needed for same effect.
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No.9 after molting shows a single projectile now casual city block busting. feats. No.9 after merging with No.2 creates massive city block busting fireballs with his attacks. Bot feats well above Sakuna and Jogo best move, as this is just casual attacks for No.9.
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No.9 currently has the No.2 Kaiju special energy beam move, which destroyed thecity of Sapporo in Japan in power. Which is why Isia had to direct the energy to the sky not to wreck the city. Now No.9s own power set.
TBH even without the summons I think range attacks would kill Sakuna. More so since No.9 is arguably faster than Sakuna is. Easily staying out of his domain or spatial slashes range.
While I agree that No. 9 may be arguably faster if he opens the distance too much Sukuna also can dodge his air blasts.
No.9 before molting is able to root his limbs through a city block and launch his projectiles at all angles. The combine firepower destroys several multi story buildings and street below. Something he can do while staying out of Sakunas range and domain.
Tbf since he will be actively trying to dodge Sukuna's attacks, it will be hard for him to put his roots underground and catch Sukuna like that. And from that kind of distance, Sukuna can open his domain.
No.9 after molting shows a single projectile now casual large building. His weakest attack same level as the one above which required several projectile. Now only one small one is needed for same effect.
Wouldn't call it Large Building Level as we can see a truck on the corner relative to the size of the tent/building.
No.9 after molting shows a single projectile now casual city block busting. feats. No.9 after merging with No.2 creates massive city block busting fireballs with his attacks. Bot feats well above Sakuna and Jogo best move, as this is just casual attacks for No.9.
Above Jogo yeah but not Sukuna really.
Even this was only said to be able to "damage" Sukuna. This is 15 F Sukuna mind you and right after this, he one-shot the volcano spirit with a fire attack. Then he one-shot Mahoraga (who gave him a better fight) with the same technique 5 minutes later:
As far as explosions go, this doesn't seem below No. 9 and it's a heat attack to boost. He has +5 Fingers, extra arms, and a mouth for hand signs and incantation to strengthen his techniques too.
No.9 currently has the No.2 Kaiju special energy beam move, which destroyed thecity of Sapporo in Japan in power. Which is why Isia had to direct the energy to the sky not to wreck the city. Now No.9s own power set.
There's not much I can say until he uses it and we see the results.
Overall, yeah it won't be easy as I said before but I still think Sukuna can take it.
While I agree that No. 9 may be arguably faster if he opens the distance too much Sukuna also can dodge his air blasts.
I dont know if he can dodge as easy. Kaiju 8 is faster than Sukuna and he gets caught up in these current blast attacks.
Tbf since he will be actively trying to dodge Sukuna's attacks, it will be hard for him to put his roots underground and catch Sukuna like that. And from that kind of distance, Sukuna can open his domain.
I again think its easy. Gen is as fast as Kaiju No.8 and kaiju 9 still caught him off guard in that move.
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Add to this Kaiju 9 is even faster and stronger now as proven here.
Post Absorption of the Kaiju No.2 weapons, Kaiju No.9 comepetes evenly with the super hypersonic speeds of Kaiju No.8 and Gen in two on one.
Wouldn't call it Large Building Level as we can see a truck on the corner relative to the size of the tent/building.
Yeah looking at it that one is not that good.
Above Jogo yeah but not Sukuna really.
Even this was only said to be able to "damage" Sukuna. This is 15 F Sukuna mind you and right after this, he one-shot the volcano spirit with a fire attack. Then he one-shot Mahoraga (who gave him a better fight) with the same technique 5 minutes later:
As far as explosions go, this doesn't seem below No. 9 and it's a heat attack to boost. He has +5 Fingers, extra arms, and a mouth for hand signs and incantation to strengthen his techniques too.
This is part of my point actually. This attack is very much a super move, Jogo trump card. meanwhile Kaiju No.9 is doing moves like this casually. The we have to look at the energy power of Kaiju No.9.
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Kafka is shown when he charges his super punch to the max, destroying a city block from the physical launching into the sky, and punches a multi city block size Kaiju blob into the low orbit to explode. This is Kaiju 8s overall power and energy output. Also durability for his body. Yet I showed the casual projectile attacks of Kaiju 9 easily damaging Kafka with single shot even though Kaiju 9 was much weaker then, and much stronger currently.
Speed is still debatable. This No. 9 and No. 8 are on par with each other. And I think it will be harder for No. 9 to dodge since Sukuna's attacks aren't as obvious. So far only Mahoragacould see Sukuna's technique. The size of the slash and its degree are completely up to Sukuna whereas No. 9 can only fire air bullets that go in a straight line.
I don't think that has much to do with speed. He sent his roots behind him as you can see when he jumped back they were already loaded. Even then Narumi dodged them all and destroyed the roots. All while not even using his pre-cog weapon.
Clearly speed involve as Gen only engaged No.9 with a few pages. Yet these Roots werte planted well after the few pages when No.9 change tactics and already had Gen surrounded. It was not time or prep that pulled that feat off at all.
Yeah, I understand. You don't mean the power difference but the attack being casual whereas Jogo's is a maximum technique. That's why I give the meteor feat to show, that level of attack could only "damage" 15F Sukuna. It's not fatal even if he gets hit with attacks on that level.
If those are casual attacks his greater effort should bust a whole city, as stated with No.2 energy beam attack and power output which No.9 Observe. Sakuna best attack is little over city block himself with domain and ultimate attacks, otherwise limit to couple skyscrapers in level.
We can see Kafka below, it's pretty much 100 meters in diameter so wouldn't call it multi-city block sized more like city block sized.
I don't think Kafka punched that thing hundreds of kilometers into the sky. Maybe you meant something else but it generally says that low orbit is below 1000 km or several hundred km into the sky.
Weather Ballons operate in the Stratosphere, and seems clear that where this Kaiju mountain blob exploded at by art work. 11-50 KM from sea level.
I honestly see anything past where clouds can form as low orbit myself, but yes that is inaccurate.
That attack was above and beyond Kafka's limits. His limbs got wrecked and his monster form started to crumble from the force.
Yes and no. Its not beyond Kafka's limits, it was his limits. Its also stated he gotten stronger since that feat TRAINING with Hoshina and Isia after that feat. Its stated he gotten stronger by physically working out in his normal form. Yet No.9 absorb the power of Monster 2 as well "molted" for more power. Thus how he was able to fight Kafka and Gen the two strongest beings on the planet at the same time and hold his own easy.
The projectiles only did superficial damage. Even the super-charged ones could be blocked with a sound barrier. Kafka roared after the projectiles were shot so they weren't that faster than sound.
You really want to use science? Then I can do that too.
1)The Projectiles are bullets, kinetic force base, and must travel massively hypersonic speeds to attain the explosive energy transfer they hit with. So science back at ya there.
2) Kafka sound roar is a energy attack in itself and not bound by speed of sound. Its a physically seen thing, nor does sound have to be faster than hypersonic anyway since time and distance of the bullet travel to Kafka can be intercepted with his roar. Also NOTHING suggest or states the energy shields are speed of sound limit at all.
I cannot look this up where I am at, have to go home to my PC to open the link.
Tbh "The character y destroyed a/an x!" is used a lot to hype the threat level of something. AFAIR we never really saw how it destroyed a city and the monster had several Yoju supporting it. It's unlikely that it wiped out a whole city with a single beam.
Fair enough.
That Fire Arrow wasn't said to be limited and he used it back-to-back against two different opponents. Plus that was 15F Sukuna. Now he can simultaneously cast incantations and hand signs to further increase its power.
Well this is the same argument i been making. We dont know limits of No.9 Power as he was suffering from weakness and Regen issues after fighting Chief Isao with No.2 gauntlets already hitting No.9 twice with the ultimate No.2 move. We never seen full power Kaiju No.9 at play. We know this Base No.9 < Molted No.9 < Weaken No.9 Post Isao < Full Power no.9 Post Isao. Max feats we get is a severely weaken and injured No.9 post Isao.
The explosion is on the same level as the clouds around it. The highest clouds are around 12 km high (Cirrus cloud) but they are very flimsy-looking unlike the clouds on the panel which look much denser and like normal clouds. Even if we don't go that much into detail, it's unlikely for the explosion to happen in the Stratosphere. Our perspective, however, looks like it's in the Stratosphere. Considering we're looking at the explosion from up high, it's normal.
I guess then the claim is it could be or not be. Either way punching a literal small mountain in weight and size possible stratosphere or right below it is far superior by miles to ANYTHING in JJK in durability and strength. In JJK busting skyscrapers is seen as OMG power levels.
I mean if you are breaking your limbs by punching someone I would say you went past your limits.
If breaking your arm still beat the target you were punching its at limits, but this is perspective like my inaccurate low orbit comment. neither here nor there really.
After fighting with Isao he learned to better utilize his monster form but IIRC it wasn't stated that he got stronger. I remember him training with Hoshina but was it stated that his monster form also got stronger? Didn't he train with Hoshina because he was the best hand-to-hand combatant in the corps?
He train to get stronger too.
Why is he learning to channel power from lower body to fists and work out his body to accomplish this if it has ZERO affect on his monster form? Why is he training his body and not just learning techniques?
I mean, we all have to use science to get an overall understanding of where they stand in terms of stats and all. Stopping projectiles with a roar after the bullets are shot is a valid way to determine the overall speed of those air bullets in my opinion.
Except is the roar sound? Or is it energy in general with a roar?
As clearly seen the energy physically seen build up for this "roar" seems more to it than just soundwaves. Not to mention the circle looking thing between the projectiles hitting whatever and Kafka.
1) If we really use science the speed of the projectiles would have to be way further beyond that since the mass is incredibly small. The bullets are either air or some part of No. 9 either way, it's unlikely for them to be heavier than 2-digit grams. Causing City-Block-Level explosions with that kind of mass would require immense speed.
Agreed.
2) Sound may be a form of energy but it travels at around 343 m/s in the air and I think it's obvious that Kafka is using a sonic roar to repel the bullets.
Is it just sonic? Why the energy build up across his body godzilla style? Is his energy of roar truly not faster than the sound? Lightning is faster than the thunder that follows it from way behind. I just dont think its simply sound waves here.
The second part confused me a bit. Sound doesn't have to be faster than hypersonic? As far as I understand you mean that Kafka's roar would have intercepted the projectiles either way however I'm talking about the distance they (Kafka's roar and bullets) clashed. If you look at the panel you can see the clash happened roughly around 2 meters away from Kafka. The distance between Kafka and No. 9 wasn't big in the first place (middle-right panel) so even if we assume they shot each other at the same time, the bullets don't have much remaining distance to travel. Which is why I'm saying the super-charged bullets are Hypersonic at most.
I mean I agree hypersonic is accurate. Rail guns are considers super effective weapons vs these Kaiju and be only barely hypersonic levels.
Well this is the same argument i been making. We dont know limits of No.9 Power as he was suffering from weakness and Regen issues after fighting Chief Isao with No.2 gauntlets already hitting No.9 twice with the ultimate No.2 move. We never seen full power Kaiju No.9 at play. We know this Base No.9 < Molted No.9 < Weaken No.9 Post Isao < Full Power no.9 Post Isao. Max feats we get is a severely weaken and injured No.9 post Isao.
I don't think Sukuna is above No. 9 in power. We didn't see either of them blowing stuff up with destructive attacks. I only mentioned +5F and body parts to show that he too, didn't display all his power and they are most likely relative to each other at least.
I guess then the claim is it could be or not be. Either way punching a literal small mountain in weight and size possible stratosphere or right below it is far superior by miles to ANYTHING in JJK in durability and strength. In JJK busting skyscrapers is seen as OMG power levels.
Depending on where you think the Stratosphere starts it might get there but I think the explosion happened a couple of kilometers up in the sky.
To be fair that single punch is also above every feat in its own verse. 😄 That punch might end No. 9 if it hits directly. Also as I said before that punch was everything and more Kafka had to give. Maybe Unlimited Hollow Purple Gojo fired at the last fight can contend with it in power. It did cause a pretty big destruction after all:
We don't see the full extent of the destruction but judging from how several skyscrapers side-by-side don't even show the arc of the crater it's pretty big.
If breaking your arm still beat the target you were punching its at limits, but this is perspective like my inaccurate low orbit comment. neither here nor there really.
I don't know why, what happened to the target matters. If you have thrown the punch with proper form and still wrecked your limbs, I think that's beyond you but maybe it's about interpretation.
Why is he learning to channel power from lower body to fists and work out his body to accomplish this if it has ZERO affect on his monster form? Why is he training his body and not just learning techniques?
He is learning the Troop-Style combat? Isn't this a technique? He is learning to channel his power to hit with better form. That seems like technique training to me. It's not like he was gonna read books to learn techniques anyway. It needs practice.
As clearly seen the energy physically seen build up for this "roar" seems more to it than just soundwaves. Not to mention the circle looking thing between the projectiles hitting whatever and Kafka.
I guess you mean the electricity around his spine. I understand but that simply looks like a charge-up. Maybe it will be clearer when the anime gets released I will give it the benefit of the doubt but timing himself and explicitly roaring, even widening his mouth seems like he just countered with sound rather than deploying an energy barrier to me.
By "circle" do you mean the several rings on the shockwave? I think that's No. 9's air cannons dispersing and it's shown like that because of the impact and airwave.
Is it just sonic? Why the energy build up across his body godzilla style? Is his energy of roar truly not faster than the sound? Lightning is faster than the thunder that follows it from way behind. I just dont think its simply sound waves here.
As I said above I will give it the benefit of the doubt. Maybe the anime will make it clearer.
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I think you made fair points overall however my opinion hasn't changed much. I still think No. 9 has a chance, I just think Sukuna takes a majority. The new term at college starts tomorrow and I will be busy so I will be withdrawing from the debate. I will still read your answer to my post. Thanks for the debate, it was fun. 😄
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