THE DESTROYER VS THE AVENGERS: WHO WINS

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Jed's Avengers stomp while Jason's Avengers get stomped. Largely comes down to Thor having the Odin Force

Is there some reason Doctor Strange can’t BFR?

Thor has successfully BFRed the Destroyer before with a great wind vortex summoned by Mjolnir. Though it required hammering it with Mjolnir repeatedly beforehand, and that was just some army colonel possessing it. After being BFRed he just gave up and floated around in space.

Though under Loki's possession, it traveled between Earth and Asgard in a couple pages (minutes of comic time), and Asgard was stated to be a universe away in the same comic. And under Thor's possession, it shot a FTL beam that traveled across the dimensional barriers between the worlds (Hel to Earth in one panel, a heartbeat in comic time).

@rajjarsalt: Good point. Plus the Destroyer beat Thor so bad he went to Hel and only survived because Hela / Marnot sent him back.

Bfr is restricted.

Destroyer is interesting because it's obviously incredibly durable, but it does have a tendency to be circumvented with either environmental context or interfering with the host in some manner. Destroyer itself isn't that physically powerful punching-wise but it's very durable and has access to energy projection that could legitimately one shot anyone here if it hits. It can last for a long while and can fight theoretically forever while everyone else here will be worn down inevitably.

Problems here are twofold

First is the magical characters who could probably find a specific form of hax to keep it subdued

Second is Destroyer being no-diffed by Odinforce users like Thor.

Those are the two obvious variables that make Destroyer clearing pretty much impossible in most situations.

Destroyer should win

Ook ook

That likely wasn't even Strange, to begin with.

But Casey.

@rajjarsalt: >hax

>two questionable mystic characters firing generic energy blasts

?

@andromeda1001:

What makes you think it’s Casey?

'twas referring to the dialogue etc

and one of them's here too

The dialogue doesn't suggest any hax being used unless we're to assume Karnilla threw all of her hax out beforehand lol

@wastelandman said:

It's actually pretty much confirmed that was her in the recap part from Doctor Strange Vol.5#6:

@wastelandman: They mention that the man called "Stephen Strange"(With the quotation marks showing that it isn't referring to the real one) was the one with the Avengers.

@andromeda1001:

Hmmmm, I never noticed this at all before. I guess that explains about since the timelines seemed a little weird during that period.

I guess I need to update the RT for Last Days of Magic Strange. The wiki doesn’t list it as Casey in disguise too so even that site missed the detail.

@wastelandman: Yea. Strange wasn't even using the same suit as when traveling into space and during the arc with the Avengers. There are other inconsistencies too, but I believe that's the most noticeable one.

I wouldn't trust the Marvel Wiki that much, tbh. They got some things wrong here and there.

@wastelandman: That's good for Casey, actually. "Strange" had some good feats in that storyline, like matching Loki in a power struggle.

@andromeda1001:

It’s a little weird that Tony sent Strange to space and doesn’t question why he’s back with powers again and wanting to joining the Avengers immediately after, lol.

I’ve rarely seen the wiki have incorrect information so I’ve found it somewhat reliable. I hope they eventually update the info on Casey being the one in the comic since that’s a major detail. I wish they made Casey being the one in the Avengers more obvious in the actual comics.

@andromeda1001:

True I didn’t think about that yet. Looks real bad for Loki if he can’t even overpower Strange’s apprentice. This actually bumps up my perspective on her abilities a lot.

@wastelandman: If I'm being completely honest with you, there's always the possibility that maybe Waid simply decided to retcon it to fit into his works. Aaron might've intended to be the real Strange, but I don't know for sure.

Fair enough. I do believe it's quite reliable, but my point is that even they have some mistakes from time to time.

@andromeda1001 said:

@wastelandman said:

@andromeda1001:

What makes you think it’s Casey?

It's actually pretty much confirmed that was her in the recap part from Doctor Strange Vol.5#6:

Sounds like a retcon tbh. I’m not sure I buy that being the intent at the time it was written. lol

Strange even went on a rant about how Loki tried to replace him.

I mean, Loki was powering the forcefields to keep everyone alive in the sun, and his goal was to unite the Avengers, not actually win the battle.

@zetsu-san: As I said above, I do believe that could be a retcon, yes.

Still, it's not something uncommon. It has happened a lot in the past and will continue to do so.

@zetsu-san: I mean, Loki was powering the forcefields to keep everyone alive in the sun, and his goal was to unite the Avengers, not actually win the battle.

Yes, but Strange/Casey was only defeated by the Horde attacking him from behind. From that to when they started fighting, it took quite some panels. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's all that of a showing, but it's still nice overall.

@zetsu-san:

Sun level forcefields should be pretty low level as far as shield feats go for a top tier sorcerer, smh.

I remember strange generated passive psychic shields to prevent Hulk and even Silver Surfer, along with several others, from being crushed by extreme gravity for the rest of the issue and wasn’t even fazed the entire time.

@wastelandman: Loki was actually dropping Carol, Tony and Thor in the same storyline though.

@wastelandman: Nah, as said in DM, I think sun level forcefields is a big deal in Marvel more often than not. I mean Mangog died to the sun as did Knull.

@andromeda1001:

Wasn’t that Thor with his Gold Hammer? Carol doesn’t really do magic and Tony is meh at Strange’s level.

I would also like to interject that it is Jason Aaron’s writing. I wouldn’t put Jason’s writing into anything as reliable canon-wise. If you like the writing, Rajar, all the more power to you.

But as the person who has done Karnilla‘s RT (totally not a reason to shoe-horn my hard-work), it’s been stated before that Karnilla can in fact destroy a Destroyer.

And Karnilla has used hax to bfr or depower the Destroyer before Aaron’s run. She knows exactly how the armor works, so it makes no sense that she wouldn’t still in Aaron’s run, unless that run changed how Destroyers work.

@pyrofn said:

@professorrespect said:

@rajjarsalt said:

@professorrespect said:

@rajjarsalt: >hax

>two questionable mystic characters firing generic energy blasts

?

'twas referring to the dialogue etc

and one of them's here too

The dialogue doesn't suggest any hax being used unless we're to assume Karnilla threw all of her hax out beforehand lol

I would also like to interject that it is Jason Aaron’s writing. I wouldn’t put Jason’s writing into anything as reliable canon-wise. If you like the writing, Rajar, all the more power to you.

But as the person who has done Karnilla‘s RT (totally not a reason to shoe-horn my hard-work), it’s been stated before that Karnilla can in fact destroy a Destroyer.

And Karnilla has used hax to bfr or depower the Destroyer before Aaron’s run. She knows exactly how the armor works, so it makes no sense that she wouldn’t still in Aaron’s run, unless that run changed how Destroyers work.

Karnilla is powerful! Does she scale above the Norns?

OT: If the Avengers had Ikaris, they could win

@hickaris said:

@pyrofn said:

@professorrespect said:

@rajjarsalt said:

@professorrespect said:

@rajjarsalt: >hax

>two questionable mystic characters firing generic energy blasts

?

'twas referring to the dialogue etc

and one of them's here too

The dialogue doesn't suggest any hax being used unless we're to assume Karnilla threw all of her hax out beforehand lol

I would also like to interject that it is Jason Aaron’s writing. I wouldn’t put Jason’s writing into anything as reliable canon-wise. If you like the writing, Rajar, all the more power to you.

But as the person who has done Karnilla‘s RT (totally not a reason to shoe-horn my hard-work), it’s been stated before that Karnilla can in fact destroy a Destroyer.

And Karnilla has used hax to bfr or depower the Destroyer before Aaron’s run. She knows exactly how the armor works, so it makes no sense that she wouldn’t still in Aaron’s run, unless that run changed how Destroyers work.

Karnilla is powerful! Does she scale above the Norns?

Yep

@pyrofn: Good stuff, Pyro. It could be because of that insane buff Destroyer got with the last retcon, something about its raw ore being forged by countless Big Bangs and Crunches until it achieved some sort of perfect 7th dimensional form.

I might have deflected with Cul Destroyer > Balder Destroyer, but Balder Destroyer did fight King Thor in the JMS era.

Ooooh, how long ago was this retcon. Like pre-Jason Aaron era?

IIRC early Aaron era, as it's post Fraction

The destroyer wins tbh

@zetsu-san: wait, I'm confused. The Strange that went to Space wasn't Strange, but someone in disguise? When was this revealed?

@del_torro said:

No, it's the opposite. The real Strange went to space, while his apprentice(Casey) assumed his identity on Earth. It was revealed in Doctor Strange Vol.5#6.

@andromeda1001: oh, okay, i remember reading that