The Last of Us Official HBO Trailer

Your thoughts on this so far ?

Why'd they make this??? Isn't the game already like a big, cinematic movie??

Also surprised Ellie is still white.

@cattlebattle:

I don’t mind as long as the show delivers. However I am really not feeling the casting. The trailer is looking surprisingly good though. Like a high quality production.

This has become most anticipated new series of next year

Looks good but I'll watch this mainly because 95% of the show was filmed within a 100 km radius of where I live, ran into filming many times/different locations.

All I know is that the Bloater at the end was caked up. It might've just been perspective, but it looked even bigger than the ones in the games to my eye.

It must've been Shaq that got infected. Possibly even Yao Ming.

And at the very least, the show looks like it will be excellent as a standalone piece.

@rogueshadow: I was thinking the same. My guy was looking massive. I can see them making the Bloater something you want to avoid at all costs in the show. Early TLOU cinematic trailer vibes when Joel and Ellie were hiding from 2-3 clickers, trembling in fear. The Bloater will probably be something like this on steroids.

In gameplay you just go ham on it. A mere nuisance mini boss. In-verse it is probably more so like a dark souls boss fight for them, lmao.

OT: This show was honestly unnecessary. Since it's just the first game all over again. But you can't play it this time. And the casting choices are pretty meh.

I hope Pedro & Bella Ramsey can carry with their acting so that it might be entertaining to watch, at least.

@cryolancer47:

I can’t wrap my head around the Pedro and Bella casting. Forget the side cast. I don’t even like the main cast. Pedro is an excellent actor, but I just can't see him as Joel. Same thing for Bella as Ellie. This decision is mind-boggling to me.

@uuth: Same here. Neither look anything like the characters. And it's not like they couldn't find anyone that closer resembles Joel & Ellie than Pedro & Bella.

But I don't really care about this series anymore. So they can do what they want with it.

Tbh they hype it up for the player in the first encounter, then at the bus depot at the end of the game you're just blowing through two at a time while whistling a tune, lol. Makes sense really, Joel is like "Eh, I got this" when the first one appears. Just another Tuesday in-verse.

I think the vibe from the cinematic will probably be prevalent in this show. In the museum scene where there seem to be only a few clickers around, the situation looks tense. Irl even a few runners would be a big threat when low on ammo. They're so savage and all it takes is a bite to end you. With clickers, even headshots aren't a guaranteed kill.

It will rarely be worth engaging any infected in straight up melee if they can avoid it. He should be able to handle situations when it comes crunch, but it's something to avoid where possible.

And yeah they had the bloater coming out of the ground like it devil himself, lol. I imagine we won't see that many proper encounters with them though.

Also, I can't visualise this Joel going at this Bloater with a machete at all.

@rogueshadow: A few runners would be a guaranteed death, if you had nothing but your hands and no option to run away. The game always has them coming at you one at a time and if they happen to come at you as a group then they are just slapping the shit out of you. The little quick time event, pressing a button so you can break free. It is very convenient and makes sense for gameplay, but it would be certain death if they kept it semi realistic. I always felt like the aspect of helplessness wasn’t translated well into the game. You never feel like Joel from the cinematic IMO not even on a high difficulty mode. One of the little gripes I always had with the game.

IRL I don’t see how you fight TLOU infected or WWZ zombies. They are running at you, wild asf, like a rabid dog. So many attack variables with no pattern. You would be done against 2, let alone 3. It’s like fighting someone with a knife. One hit and you are screwed and the person doesn’t need some fancy move, just some wild unpredictable stabbing attacks.

I think you are right. This cinematic more grounded vibe will probably be more prevalent in this. The Bloater scene looks more like a action scene though. I hope they don’t go too crazy with it, fighting a horde of infected with a bloater in the mix. The machete scene, lmao.

I'm way more curious how they're going to adapt The Last of Us Part 2.

Assuming they even go down that route anyway.

@uuth: Yeah without ammo/a melee weapon, anything more than two runners would be GG. Can’t really see how you could come away without at least getting bitten if you don’t have body armour or something.

Even 1v1, implementing technique on something this spasmodically frenetic that will straight up break its own bones and tear its skin off to drag and claw its way to biting you would be insane irl. If there are several, you basically need a weapon that can at the very least buy you time with a single hit.

And it’s true but it would probably be hard to bring that feeling in a combat game for its entire run. They probably could’ve done a bit more to bring it out with the Stalker encounters though. Stalkers barely even register as a thing in the first game.

Lol, I don’t see Joel John Wicking his way through infected in this but we’ll see. I think in general encounters with infected will be smaller in terms of both frequency and the numbers present. The bloater part looks more like a duck and run scene to me. Like they disturbed a horde and will just be in full flight mode. Maybe it catches up to them later and they're forced to take it on. I do expect the gym fight, a boss battle for Joel and Bill to tag-team. Can see Ellie and David taking one on as well like they do in the game. Maybe have him coming in clutch for her to give the sense to the audience that maybe he's aight and not a paedophilic cannibal.

@rogueshadow: The stalker we’re so underutilized in the first one, hahaha. I only recall the sewer section. They were not unique enough either tbh. Just runners with some low tier stealth ability. Man they were really ass.

Can’t wait for Bill. He had a great dynamic with both Joel and Ellie in the game. For the little time we spent with him they managed to write him brilliantly into the story. I rarely feel like this for a side character, especially if he is just in it for a mission. Bill is my G. Also yeah would be dope if they tag-teamed the bloater. Maybe it’s a duck and run scene like you said. Luring him into some of Bills traps. Over-taxing it’s durability.

How do you feel about Pedro as Joel now after the trailer dropped ? Still not doing it for me at all. The voice, tone, mannerism… even the dialogue appears strange to me from the little we heard. That’s not my boy Joel. I can only hope it’s not throwing me off too much.

@uuth:

Yeah I was actually thinking of the sewer section where you're stuck with Sam when you mentioned the vibe from the cinematic. It comes out in that part if you go in low on ammo in the higher difficulties. The enemy A.I. still runs on a circuit though. They don't really go out of their loops. Once you know the tricks well enough it always becomes surgical tbh. The stalkers pop up a lot more in the remake though.

Bill the GOAT, lol. He really pops after just one chapter. Very memorable. Only Fat Geralt contends with him in terms of screen-time to eliteness ratio. The casting on him looks good. He'll be one episode and done here I expect. Tess too I imagine. I don't really know how they're gonna manage this, I can see 9 episodes being enough, but it looks like they're adding a bunch of additional material as well.

Pedro is a good actor and I think that the character he's playing will be good, but yeah I don't see Joel onscreen. I try and just view most adaptations as mostly elseworlds at this point or I don't think I'd enjoy most media, lol.

The only dialogue that stuck out was the "you keep going for family" which reads wrong to me. Even though Joel prioritises family, it's not something "you keep finding something to fight for" Joel would say. I think this Joel will fundamentally be written as softer. I get more good guy energy. In many ways game Joel is a bad person at his core. Cold as hell. He should have that energy until Ellie softens him up way later on. I don't think this Joel will have that energy but I'd like to be surprised. Idk, it is what it is, I've made peace with it, lol.

@rogueshadow:

Yeah that’s definitely going to be my problem with it. His rougher, more masculine energy aside, I like Joel because he is a grey character. The show could take advantage of it and explore his backstory down the line a bit. Fill the holes that the game implied, but ultimately left out. Perfect opportunity. What he had done to survive and how he forced Tommy through the same. I feel like that’s a key aspect to his character. They’ll probably go the surface level route. Ellie softening an already soft version of Joel and this will be it. His whole character progression.

I see what you are saying though. Keep the expectations low. It is a different continuity after all. A little dessert. I can definitely tell that you are not the same since the defenders, hahahaha. That was your turn back moment. Never seen you as hyped for any piece of media ever again, lmao.

Also the family line was what stuck out to me as well. I knew you noticed that right away. Every time I see new TLOU content, I associate it with you, because of our prior convos. The moment he said that I was like:

@uuth: I would definitely be down for the TV series giving us more flashbacks and context. Even if it’s saved for later seasons and they give Tommy flashbacks during his time in Washington to flesh it out. Or if they give breathing room between Part I & II as I think they should, they can put it in there.

The supposed dark shit he did will be low-tier though. Cries about it after. Bawling to the heavens.

All that shit. A sub-Clem tier torture scene.

Hahaha. It’s true tbh. They three-pieced me with TLJ, the Defenders and finally GoT S8 all within 18 months of each other. I never fully recovered. I thought I was ready to hype again with TLOU2 and got hit with a one-shot tko out of the gate.

Hahaha, the spicy LOU convos. Before the dark times.

Yeah it stuck out to me immediately tbh. Just not something Joel would say. Very off for his philosophy. Tribal and familial, but he's on the hustle to survive for survival’s sake. Killer Joel is only skin deep here. Just under the surface is the family man. In the game it was buried 200 miles beneath the Earth. It made the development of their relationship more satisfying. It immediately tells you that the writing is likely quite different as well as Pedro’s performance. Maybe reading into it too much though, Idk. It does feel off.

Wonder how this Joel will react to getting got by Abby's squad. They might have him go out screaming like Stephen from Django Unchained when she kneecaps him. You just never know.

It sounds like I hate the show, hahaha. I'm here for it. Looks good as its own thing I'm mostly memeing. It'll be distinct from the game but I'll try to divorce myself from that.

@rogueshadow:

Damn I forgot to respond, sorry my guy.

TLOU 2 was a let down, but Defenders, TLJ and GOT final season were a disaster. I still believe the idea for TLOU 2 was good. It just fell short in execution. Some decisions didn’t make sense and Joel died too early into the game. Even now it doesn’t feel like the franchise is ruined. I’ll be hype when TLOU returns with another sequel or prequel. I am biased asf though so there is that haha.

Yeah the show has the chance to dive into the past. It’s like a given opportunity because the game left it out. It would be foolish not to take it IMO. By the looks of it, it appears they want to do a 1 to 1 replica of the game. The scenes look almost identical. Extra content is the only path that could make it really interesting for me. Otherwise its not really intriguing for a fan of the franchise. Like a nice snack, but nothing crazy.

Only difference will be Joel hitting us with the Clem tier torture scenes. Joel shedding manly tiers after every kill. Showing next level sympathy like a samurai. I can already see Joel shouting at the top of his lungs "What have you done !?" as Ellie bashes David’s brains in. He’ll hit her with the Naruto speech afterwards

while this trailer had none of the classical The Last of Us Darkness and the " less is more " approach with its musical and visual choices , and the actors look nothing like the characters I think they are supposed to be , The Cinematography was really beautiful and I would've loved this trailer if this wasn't a Last of Us property.

@uuth:

Tbh I’ve softened a lot on TLOU2 but the gap between the hype going in and the final product is still monumental. Too many contrivances, slip ups etc. and the characters dynamic were virtually all far weaker than the first game.

Joel’s death needed more breathing room and it should have been better depicted. Such a massive decision to take creatively and they should’ve known better than to have it surrounded by silly mistakes. It had to be handled flawlessly. Even then though, Joel's death is fundamental to but isn't itself the biggest narrative issue with the game. I don’t hate Abby at all, she’s a decent character, but I think ND really overestimated how good of a character she was. Feels like they entered their own bubble and thought she was something special when she was just pretty good. Probably their single biggest mistake.

Space between TLOU I & II is major thing they can rectify in the show. A season or more between TLOU 1 and Joel’s death establishing Abby’s character, following the degradation of Ellie/Joel’s relationship. If they have Abby appear from the blue sky they're gonna get the same backlash and drop off from show watchers. I can already see it.

I'd prefer a prequel at this point. That said, I might bitch and moan but all said and done I'd still probably be there day one for a sequel. I even bought the remake, hahaha. I wouldn’t go in with the same hype though.

Hahahaha. Imagine. I won't be surprised. Grabs the machete off her, gives her that look, sorrowful. Then gently closes David's eyes. Has a little emotional moment. Then the speech hits.

At least we'll always have this gem.

No line went nearly this hard until Kratos dropped the "Death can have me when it earns me" bomb.

Pedro Pascal??

@rogueshadow:

Man you really bought the remake after all, haha. There did minimal work for it. I was telling you back then that it’s not worth it. You might be a bigger fan than me after all. The remake looks beautiful though. TLOU 2 level graphics. Did they optimize the controls and gameplay as well ?

Joel’s death needed more breathing room and it should have been better depicted. Such a massive decision to take creatively and they should’ve known better than to have it surrounded by silly mistakes. It had to be handled flawlessly. Even then though, Joel's death is fundamental to but isn't itself the biggest narrative issue with the game. I don’t hate Abby at all, she’s a decent character, but I think ND really overestimated how good of a character she was. Feels like they entered their own bubble and thought she was something special when she was just pretty good. Probably their single biggest mistake.

I agree. They pushed their luck with the player-character relationship. They thought they created some Arthur Morgan type character that the player falls in love with after just one game, but they just didn’t deliver. The game is trying so hard for you to like her, humanizing her at the end of the story. Redeeming her, creating this dynamic with Lev, paralleling Joel and Ellie, but it never hits home.

Space between TLOU I & II is major thing they can rectify in the show. A season or more between TLOU 1 and Joel’s death establishing Abby’s character, following the degradation of Ellie/Joel’s relationship. If they have Abby appear from the blue sky they're gonna get the same backlash and drop off from show watchers. I can already see it.

They would have to retcon her whole character for me to like her. I feel like going more in depth into her character and past is not going to do it for me. She is just not it, from a fundamental standpoint. Decent character, that’s it.

That being said I don’t think I’ll care nearly as much for show Joel as I did for game Joel so his death will not hit me either way. The writing needs to be off the charts and Pedro really needs to perform godly for me to care like that.

No line went nearly this hard until Kratos dropped the "Death can have me when it earns me" bomb.

Haha damn right. Those 2, then there is also Arthur dropping his final speech at the train station, speaking to the nun. The 3 pillars.

@uuth:

> The game is trying so hard for you to like her,

I‘m gonna be honest, I genuinely don’t think the game is trying to get the player to particularly like her. Seriously, understand her side? Yeah, but it never really takes a “and now you should like her” type of position. It just, shows that stuff and leaves it to the player on gow they feel about her.

@uuth:

I was telling you back then that it’s not worth it.

Tbh they just transposed the original 's level design, mechanics, animations etc. The upgrades in graphics, physics, textures etc. are all excellent, but they probably piggybacked on the engine and assets from TLOU II.

For a true remake you expect more. Dodging alone would've been a win. But they said it wouldn’t fit Joel and said the same about prone. With prone I can at least see how it requires a complete overhaul to level design, but there's no reason they couldn’t have at least built on the low-tier block mechanic from the original game. + different human enemy types.

Gunplay is a bit smoother. I felt a bit more OP in melee, but maybe my play style has changed. The way the camera operates has changed which could contribute. Any core gameplay improvements are probably due to the fact it’s built to run on a system two generations ahead of the original, rather than any heavy lifting from ND. It shouldn't have been full price.

And yeah they thought they could sell it. It explains the structure of the game, they really thought Abby and her story was so good that they could maneuver things the way they did and that their boldness would pay off. Arthur Morgan, lol. Yeah that's basically the tier they needed but they hit Javier or Bill tier instead.

And it's not just the quality I mean tbh, but the narrative whiplash. The quality would dip regardless because nothing touched the Joel/Ellie relationship again, but I don't think the backlash would be as pronounced. They went forwards on the premise that Abby/her story could carry it and that they'd pull off something big off but instead it fell flat for many.

Setting up the character beforehand and putting her and Ellie on a collision course will be the better way to go than just drop her in. I can already see the drop off from watchers if they approach it like the game did.

But true it will vary depending on this Joel lol. The cast in general, Idk. Someone unexpected may steal the whole show. HBO Dina will be the one.

The three pillars, hahaha.

@uuth: Also, a quick note on a video I saw a while ago but forgot to mention where GRRM confirms Dawn >> Valyrian Steel. Very spicy.

@rogueshadow:

Still crazy to me that they went full price for it. The devs are getting greedy. I don’t like were the industry is at right now. You mentioned it before, but it really feels like ND fell off in recent years. ND used to be the one, every game another banger. TLOU used to be this narrative milestone in the gaming industry and now it’s holding ND hostage. It must resurface over and over again because of its success.

Meanwhile Capcom dropped the spiciest Remake with Resident Evil 2. An entirely new game without getting rid of the essence of the old Ps1 original. It resurrected the best parts and made them look, sound, and play like a modern game. This is what a remake should be.

Necessary build-up for Abby could have done some damage control. As it is, she was dropped in, killed him in the first 2 hours of the game. People were going crazy. ND really expected us to react like this.

It’s not looking like the show is going to introduce us to Abby in season 1, building up her character for the revenge arc. This could be crucial for the new fans going into the show blind, not starting out with Joel and Ellie, but both storylines at the same time. They could view it from an unbiased perspective. The hardcore fan will likely not care tbh. The damage is done. They can make Abby a core character from the very beginning, but we will still root for Joel and Ellie no matter what. It would be like a decent compensation, that’s about it.

@rogueshadow: Goes to show how much of an crazy amp Dawn is. "Valyrian steel slices through these protections like so much cloth". Then you have Dawn a tier above that. It has to be like Logan's adamantium claws cutting through anything it touches like a hot knife through butter. Coupled with Arthurs skill, he was essentially invincible in a 1 vs 1. I would like to know how Dawn would interact with Valyrian steel in a repeated clash of swords.

I think VS would hold up. Certainly for a few encounters, but it would give out first. But it's possible they're equally resistant while Dawn is sharper and lighter, Idk. Difficult to pin down what he means by potent but it certainly holds some advantage in combat.

In TWOIAF, it’s stated that when the Citadel analysed Dawn they found that aside from its appearance, it held the same properties as Valyrian steel, being far sharper, lighter and stronger than castle-forged, Qohorik etc. steel. VS is described as “nigh-on indestructible” by Jon, so it’s possible that both simply exceed the Citadel’s ability to assess the full strength of either without getting ridiculous. They’re ultimately not that advanced and they might’ve just decided “yeah they’re both strong as shit” and couldn't determine which was superior because of that.

Will have to wait for TWOW in 2033 to be sure.

All this hype only for the show to give it the most low-effort design of all time. A genuine travesty to me. This revelation compounds it.

It should've been a £10 - £20 upgrade if you already owned the remaster or even TLOU2. Then closer to full price if you're going in fresh, but you get TLOU2 free in a bundle. Something like that. They released it like brand new game "built from the ground up" when it's very clear how much they piggybacked on TLOU2's tech.

Tbh I think I'm the only one who didn't like UC4 that much but it was still good. The loss of Hennig was palpable though imo. This was the first shake of the boat from them for me.

Lol, they thought they'd created the new face of Playstation.

As for the show, probably true lol. But then Idk with these versions, any random character could unexpectedly shine. A hidden Bakuto tier gem. It's gonna be Dina, I can feel it. I think Pedro will be good in this role he plays though, I think I will like him as what he is and I expect audiences will too. So honestly even for these versions and show only watchers, won't be surprised if the majority just never vibe with Abby the way they're hoping.

Audiences can be fickle though, Negan somehow became a fan favourite and people legit ship him with Maggie now. Man, who knows.

Live action adaptations of video games always suck

@rogueshadow:

All this hype only for the show to give it the most low-effort design of all time. A genuine travesty to me. This revelation compounds it.

Hahahaha. The number 1 sword, the most legendary sword of the franchise and they gave it the default look of the sword that you get at level 1 in any RPG game

In TWOIAF, it’s stated that when the Citadel analysed Dawn they found that aside from its appearance, it held the same properties as Valyrian steel, being far sharper, lighter and stronger than castle-forged, Qohorik etc. steel. VS is described as “nigh-on indestructible” by Jon, so it’s possible that both simply exceed the Citadel’s ability to assess the full strength of either without getting ridiculous. They’re ultimately notthatadvanced and they might’ve just decided “yeah they’re both strong as shit” and couldn't determine which was superior because of that.

Ironic how everything the characters say in the books is always so vague or open for interpretation. Then when GRRM drops a statement it’s always clear cut, dropping the word of god with no potential interpretation bs going on. He really gave us the definite Dayne vs Selmy result. Worded it so precise that not even the average MCU vs DCEU debater could rat their way out of it.

I agree about the price. There should have been a price reduction for the owners of the previous version. There is no way this was justified. They are probably sitting at their office, laughing their asses off because of the cash they made with so little effort. Same engine, same gameplay, same cutscenes. Dropped some graphics update on it and called it a day. Full price… ridiculous.

As for the show, probably true lol. But then Idk with these versions, any random character could unexpectedly shine

Whoever becomes the fan favorite should enjoy it while it lasts, (It will be Dina, most definitely) because when Fat Geralt hits the scene, he will take over all this shit. They’ll make him a main. No doubt in my mind. He will drop the spiciest line in his introduction that will rival the 3 pillars.

@rogueshadow:

Hahahaha. The number 1 sword, the most legendary sword of the franchise and they gave it the default look of the sword that you get at level 1 in any RPG game

I just envision GRRM spending 5 minutes devoted to explaining how OP the sword is. Detailing its lore etc. Followed by D&D walking out of the room and deciding a stick with a little Sun on it will do.

“Pale as milkglass, alive with light.”

Random background props in LOTR look better.

Worded it so precise that not even the average MCU vs DCEU debater could rat their way out of it.

Fat Geralt, lol. His whole backstory will be revealed. His old vendetta with Joel. Flashbacks will even reveal that he killed Bill in a showdown while he was on the hunt for Joel. The final boss Abby/Ellie are forced to tag-team to defeat. A possible last minute save from Seth, who in doing so redeems himself. Peak fiction.

Honestly though, it will be ironic if Ashley Johnson’s Anna steals the the whole show in 15 minutes of screen-time. Troy Baker being one of David's men is also interesting. I expect he will be the one Joel goes in on with the Clem tier torture scene. When Pedro takes out the cigarette we'll know it's about to pop off. The hype will be off the charts.

@uuth said:

@rogueshadow:

They could’ve given it a simple design with the aesthetic of the First Men while still looking iconic/distinctive. This looks like a sword for a random extra that they drew a Sun onto. If we see it again they should retcon it. Turns out the original hilt was damaged a week before the ToJ. He had to make do with any old shit for the time being.

Even the blade though, smh...

“Pale as milkglass, alive with light.”

@rogueshadow:

You really brought back the ASOIAF hype. This has me thinking when HOTD season 3 will drop. I’ll assume late 2023. GRRM said in an Interview that his wish is for it to be 4 seasons long. Best case scenario: We will be approaching our mid 30s when the battle of the trident gets finally adapted, rogue. Ret-conning Dawn is the least of our worries, haha. Unless they go all in, MCU mode and drop them arcs all back to back.

I can easily see them changing the design for future projects. Dayne only had a little cameo and his sword didn’t even make an impression on the average viewer. Everything will get a redesign. The kingsguard armor, his sword etc. New actor for Arthur. They probably don’t care about its aesthetic consistency.

"Pale as milkglass, alive with light"

Honestly though, it will be ironic if Ashley Johnson’s Anna steals the the whole show in 15 minutes of screen-time. Troy Baker being one of David's men is also interesting.

Are they good actors outside of voice acting ? I’ve never seen anything else of their work. I expect them to have minor roles, but it could turn out a little weird, if Troy interacts with Pedro and you can hear the OG Joel out of him, lmao.

@uuth:

It probably depends on where they choose to end this epoch. The Dance could feasibly be done in three seasons, the next two will be denser and faster paced than the first. Depends where they choose to end it. A very abrupt and brutal ending with a spoken epilogue detailing some of the aftermath could actually work.

Also, HBO have said it won’t be back until 2024. The long night recommences.

Man, mid-30s is optimistic. More like 40s, lol. The Demon of the Trident is probably so far away I doubt I’ll even be alive by that point. The day before we're finally about to see the RR spice will be the day we put the news on to find that nukes are being dropped all over and the cordyceps has spread to humans for real.

I have a feeling it will bookmark the whole show. After everything, the final days of the Targaryen reign. If they do take the anthology approach. Maegor vs The Faith, Viserys I's reign, Aegon’s Conquest, Daeron in Dorne, Aegon V and Summerhall, Aegon IV and the Blackfyre Rebellions.

Would love it if I'm wrong and they just went into RR right away though. I'd hope it would cover the whole period from 260 - 283 AL. Opening with the Battle of the Stepstones, Selmy giving Maelys the work.

Everything will get a redesign. The kingsguard armor, his sword etc.

I think Ashley is quite good. Idk about Troy. It'll be cool if we get some version of this since this story never materialised in the games. They've said there will be things they just didn't have time for in the games that will be explored. We shall see.

@rogueshadow: If they take GRRM's advice it will take at least 4 seasons. Not sure how much say he has here.

George R.R. Martin says#HouseOfTheDragon needs 4 seasons of 10 episodes each to do justice to the Dance Of The Dragons storyline

They have the source material. I just hope they don’t rush it. I’ll take the lite L and wait for Roberts rebellion as long as the dance gets adapted properly.

Would love it if I'm wrong and they just went into RR right away though. I'd hope it would cover the whole period from 260 - 283 AL. Opening with the Battle of the Stepstones, Selmy giving Maelys the work.

I don’t know about all that. I don’t mind if it’s done correctly, but I really wasn’t feeling the time skips in season 1 of HOTD. That was my only problem with it. Idk but for some reason it did not feel fluid to me. Rushing deaths, actors changing. They went crazy to get to the start of the dance ASAP. At least it was better than whatever this back and forth dogshit in the Witcher s1 was.

@uuth:

He seems to have more influence than he did for the back half of GoT, but he isn't writing any scripts like he did in S1 - 4. IIRC he wanted them to start a decade earlier, with the death of Aemon, Jahaerys’ firstborn son.

They could just start at Harrenhal or Duskendale, but so much context would be lost. I can see a prologue with the Tragedy at Summerhall, followed by the show beginning in earnest at the Stepstones. Tywin knighting Aerys, the death of the last Blackfyre pretender and the naming of Selmy to the Kingsguard.

Two seasons covering 260 – 280 and two seasons covering the immediate build up/Rebellion itself. Meanwhile, HOTD compressed nearly 30 years into a single season, lol. I think they did a good job. I appreciate why they probably felt they had to do it the way they did, especially coming off GoT S8.

With HOTD, I would be here for it personally but I don’t know if I see them adapting 10 or more episodes of post-dance material. Idk. Idw be too spoilery. But thinking about it, I can see them moving events around a bit as well tbh. The Dance itself is so hectic though, it's a mess in a good way. With characters rising and dying at breakneck speed. If it gets dragged out it could lose that energy.

@uuth: Always visualised Dayne having darker hair, due to Ashara, but Edric has pale hair so it could go either way and a design something like this would be spice incarnate tbh:

@rogueshadow:

Is there a specific reason why he isn’t writing the script ? If I was directing any ASOIAF content I would definitely go to him for support. Pay the man to get it right. Early GOT wasn’t this good by accident. You could just tell the writing was off the charts. Man even From Software hired this man to write the lore of elden ring and they don’t have anything to do with him. Why can’t they link up when they are literally adapting his shit. I can’t get this through my head.

HOTD compressed nearly 30 years into a single season, lol. I think they did a good job. I appreciate why they probably felt they had to do it the way they did, especially coming off GoT S8.

I had my problems with it, but we don’t have direct counterpart to compare it to any tv show in particular. It felt like something entirely new, very niche. It was a risky move that went right. Still… idk. I don’t want this to be the new proposition for every new project of ASOIAF. Something was missing that was there in early GOT.

It sounds like I am bashing the show but it’s really just me wanting them to get it right. I liked it a lot. Excellent show overall. Just not peak television.

Always visualised Dayne having darker hair, due to Ashara, but Edric has pale hair so it could go either way and a design something like this would be spice incarnate tbh:

The fan art looks dope but idk. I always thought everything that has to do with Dorne is based off southeast Europe culture or middle eastern. Countries like greece, turkey, Morocco. Olive skin with its location having this sandy vibe to it. This Silver/white/pale hair is something I associate with Targaryen, mythical almost elseworld people.

(I definitely didn’t put greece in there because I want Dayne to be based off a Greek dude)

Meh i think i'll wait to see what kind of reception it gets whether its worth checking out tbh. As far as Joel imo I feel they could have casted better than Pedro but I digress.

@cattlebattle lol 😆 yeah surprised they're actually following source material but I know what you mean. Thanksfully not everything has to be woke race bent.

@uuth:

Is there a specific reason why he isn’t writing the script?

I think it was probably his choice. He announced a while ago he wouldn't be writing one. Seems like he's been part of the creative process, provided notes on lore, characters etc. but hasn't taken time out to actually write scripts. Probably because it requires more time to write a wholly new script than just rework his book material.

And tbh I don't think there'll be any way around fairly big time-skips for a good number of stories in HOTD. For something like The Sea Snake or a series about Nymeria it may not be needed. For a good chunk of the Targaryen storylines, the alternative to time-skips would be only seeing the 3 - 5 year time periods where shit hits the fan and missing most context.

GRRM said one of the ideas was actually to start with Viserys' death. Robert's Rebellion would be far less interesting if it's just 2 seasons of the actual Rebellion imo. This goes for most storylines.

(I definitely didn’t put greece in there because I want Dayne to be based off a Greek dude)

Hahaha. Well, being a fairly prominent House in the Dornish Marshes, the Daynes are probably among the more miscegenated houses in Westeros, realistically. Given that they’ve more than likely intermarried with the Southern, more Rhoynish Houses at some point or another in the last 1000 years.

You would probably have a few generations sporadically looking more in line with Sandy and Salty Dornishmen due to this, but the Daynes are generally considered Stony Dornishmen; fair skinned, light haired and claiming descent from the First Men rather than the Rhoynar who match with what you described. They are probably still more closely related to the First Men/Andals than the Rhoynar.

So far we only know the hair colour of two; Edric (pale blonde, not the silver-gold of Targs) and Ashara, but both had lilac/purple eyes like Valyrians. I don't think there's been any commentary on their skin tone. GRRM has stated that this is not necessarily indicative of Valyrian descent though. I believe he’s telling the truth as he doesn't seem to ever lie about things, but I do suspect that there is a connection I won’t go off on a tangent with.

I don't know who would be analagous to Greeks in ASOIAF. There are Greek elements in a bunch of the cultures but I feel they're usually overshadowed by a heavier parallel. I've tried to think of an equivalent before when we've discussed asoiaf. I can never settle on a proper comparison. Dorne is more comparable to Moorish Spain imo. Though, there's no full 1:1 for anywhere.

@rogueshadow: I see, yeah this makes sense. House Dayne always felt like somewhat disconnected from the rest of Dorne to me. Most of dorne always looked like it’s based on the Ottoman Empire or some random muslim influenced medieval architecture. Muslim moors from medieval spain for example.

Meanwhile people of House Dayne are depicted more so as Mediterranean people with this european pull in the mix like greeks, italians and the Spaniards. It was always a factor strengthening by bias for my boy Arthur hahaha. Just my headcanon though. There is no 1:1 as you said and likely heavier parallels. It would probably be my first question to GRRM if I was given one go.

GRRM said one of the ideas was actually to start with Viserys' death. Robert's Rebellion would be far less interesting if it's just 2 seasons of the actual Rebellion imo. This goes for most storylines.

Where would you start out with Roberts rebellion ?

Man this arc would go crazy. This still feels like the main arc of the whole franchise to me. The utter drama, tragedy, romance, betrayal, and murder. All those connections, ending the dynasty, Jon being born etc. That arc would clap GOT if it was done right. Only negative is that fans of the series know what’s about to happen for the most part.

Where would it start though ? With the death of Brandon and Rickard ? Could be too late into the story. I think a bit before the Harrenhall tournement would make sense. Watching Jaime get knighted by Dayne. Pretty sure it was not long before the tourney. Reveal of Lyanna. If she was the knight of the laughing tree. So much more to unpack.