Why Vegetto is Stronger than Kefla

For the past two years people has said SSJ2 Kefla is stronger then SSJB Vegetto( Black Arc). And here's why that's false.

At the moment of Gattai Zamasu's fusion it was stated that his power expanded to no end( it doesn't matter just wanted to state it). During his battle with Goku & Vegeta, Vegeta says" God or not, I've never seen anyone let of energy like him" this would also include Beerus since in the training arc they say Beerus unrestrained, and this is Zamasu toying with them. Then Shin goes on to state that Zamasu's standing as a god was beyond their understanding. Now taking all this we can assume Zamasu is Beerus level or at least close to it maybe even past it(Not head cannon what I gathered from the show's statments). Now in come Vegetto who we saw was equal in power to Zamasu showing that Vegetto has the same standing in power to compared to Beerus as Zamasu. And to those who say Trunks was stronger than Vegetto is not true as it was stated multiple times that Zamasu's body was falling apart.

Now in the Tournament of Power ignoring that Goku was "rusty" compared to him in Black arc. Both Vados & Champa were both unsure if Kefla could beat a full stamina Goku. Now some say that SSJBKK was stronger than Goku cause he got some kicks in which doesn't make sense cause by that logic KKx20 Goku was stronger than Frieza in Namek saga cause he got some attacks in. But this is both Vados and Champa saying she might not be able to win. There are also people saying that Vados was saying she kept getting stronger which is also false she said" Kefla's power consists of Caulifla and Kale's power multiplied tens of times." and when fighting UI Goku she said Kefla's attacks were strong and fast but Goku's reflexes are still superior.

Now my last arguement, after Vegetto defused neither Goku nor Vegeta were able to transform, while Caulifla was shown to transform a few minutes(their time) after defusing.

There's probably more but I can't think of them right now.

I agree

There also the statement that in Goku final use of MUI Beersus thinks that Goku has surpassed him, meaning that the first two times Goku wasn't even Beerus level, so Vegito is stronger

@raven_godking: That was one I forgot about

Goku landed ONE hit on Frieza and that was more by surprise; Frieza dodged the next attack and then blocked a Kamehameha with one hand. In contrast Goku was casually going blow-for-blow with Kefla, actually dropped her and had her breathing hard, and was only done in by a cheap shot.

It’s pretty simple. Goku and Vegeta were individually much stronger than Kale and Caulifla at the time of their fusion. Vegetto also has access to a higher saiyan form (Blue). Vegetto should own Kefla frankly, Kefla only approached the full power of Goku who is half of Vegetto.

Vegito is stronger than Kefla but I do think people lowball her a bit.

@takenstew22: well tori animation overrate her

In the manga she was mystic Gohan level

In the anime she was giveing omen Goku trouble

@teozot: Hm.

@takenstew22: :)

Pretty much this. You seriously need insane levels of mental gymnastics to make such a audacious claim that Kefla is above Vegito.

If anything, Vegito, and by extension Merged Zamasu, scales off of Kefla's feats. If SSJ2 Kefla can seriously challenge UI Omen Goku, this makes Vegito and Zamasu (in his Light of Justice form) significantly superior to FP Jiren and UI Omen Goku.

@noobsnowman: I don’t think it necessarily puts Vegetto and Zamasu above Jiren but it is definitely favorable scaling for them. Vegetto vs Jiren is a good debate, I don’t see a clear winner.

@the_hajduk: Zamasu arc Vegito would lose to Jiren.

@takenstew22: I don’t think there is any clear winner given the limited info we have.

@the_hajduk: We do know that Zamasu arc Goku and Vegeta were weaker than their TOP versions.

@takenstew22: True but it’s still possible for Vegetto to win.

@the_hajduk: I think it's debatable if its Limit Breaker Jiren, I don't really see a discussion if it's just FP Jiren. The astronomical difference in power between LSSJ2 and SSB, and SSJ2 Kefla challenging a peer of FP Jiren is enough to conclude that Vegito can delete FP Jiren with one finger.

@takenstew22:

We do know that Zamasu arc Goku and Vegeta were weaker than their TOP versions.

No we don't, there is no evidence that shows their Blue forms got stronger between arcs.

When did he say that? Either way I don't believe it in the slightest.

@takenstew22: Goku got grazed by a mere gunshot and noticed that he got rusty, Beerus pointed it out as well when Goku got there. That was during the early US arc.

Anyhow, there is no evidence that Goku/Vegeta got stronger between Black Arc and US Arc. Training alone is not enough of a reason because Vegeta pointed out during the U6 Arc that he and Goku were reaching the limit of their Saiyan growth so he could not gain any power increase from training.

Any version of God Vegetto is definitely above Kefla

@takenstew22:

Pointing out low showings doesn't change anything.

Yes it does? You have to take into account everything before determining whether someone really got stronger between arcs. You're just cherry picking to create your own little narrative based on incomplete evidence, or in your case the lack of evidence, ignoring portions of clear evidence that directly contradict your opinion.

They trained so they obviously got stronger. This is a thing that's consistent throughout all of Dragon Ball.

Wrong. In the Cell Arc Vegeta and Trunks both trained again after their defeat against Cell right before the Cell Games and noted little to no improvement in their training results. Goku during the Cell Games noted that training alone does not guarantee increase in power level, if anything it can be detrimental because it can be stressful for the body.

That statement means very, VERY little considering that not only did Vegeta gain SSBE but Goku also gained Ultra Instinct.

Irrelevant argument. The new forms that Vegeta and Goku unlocked were in the midst of battle during the ToP, they never achieved the forms as a result from their training. Completely has nothing to do to Vegeta's statement regarding the lack of power increase during training specifically.

Besides, I don't actually need to prove anything. The burden of proof is on you to show that Goku and Vegeta actually got stronger between arcs. I hope for your sake that you have more evidence besides 'training' to prove that they got a lot stronger.

@takenstew22:

Lmao how am I cherry picking? You literally mentioned that low showing just to try and prove Goku somehow got weaker.

Cherry picking: Suppressing evidence, or the fallacy of incomplete evidence is the act of pointing to individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position while ignoring a significant portion of related cases or data that may contradict that position.

What you said: Pointing out low showings doesn't change anything.

If that's not cherry picking then I don't know what is.

And yet right before their defeat they gained new powerups. ASSJ Vegeta stomped Semi-Perfect Cell, USSJ Trunks was trading blows with a suppressed Cell. Yes training doesn't always drastically increase your strength like that but it still helps.

Notice the difference in your example? They gained new power up as a result from their training. Did Vegeta gain any powerup between the Black Arc and the ToP Arc? No. His peak form was still SSB. Training may or may not increase one's power but it strictly depends on the results shown.

At most, you can claim that only Goku got stronger because he mastered his Blue Kaioken. But can you claim for example that his Blue form got stronger? There is no evidence that proves it so. Especially when there is evidence that Goku and Vegeta only got negligibly stronger after 3 years of training to prepare for the U6 Tournament, and the time between the Black Arc and the ToP Arc is less than a year.

Agreed.

Suprised no Kefla supporters have jumped in

@omega_king13:

For the past two years people has said SSJ2 Kefla is stronger then SSJB Vegetto( Black Arc). And here's why that's false.

I have never heard that, and i don't think any relevant number of people thinks that.

But you just seem to want to lowball Kefla anyways, later statements are more important than earlier statements and she was constantly increasing her power, that much was obvious.

@alsimmons77: There are a lot of people who think she can.

And earlier statements are just as important and I don’t lowball just cause I dislike the character and her fuses. And nowhere was it justed her power was constantly increasing. They said her SSJ2 form was as strong as when Goku first went UI.

I doubt there are many.

No they are not, and that isn't even possible. Kefla powered up several times, and they also mentioned it, Picolo even talked about how both drew out each others power. If you dislike a character make a thread about your reasons for that, but resorting to lowballing just because of that is dumb.

@alsimmons77: Drawing out power doesn’t mean constantly getting stronger as shown when she was losing and I have watched that fight many times for debates despite how much I hate her if anything there exaggerated like Zamasu’s power expanded to no end, however unlike her he was constantly getting stronger as shown in his fight with Vegetto

Again nowhere was I lowballing, I’m merely stating why Vegito wouldn’t lose to her throughout my reasoning I used statements and showings not head cannon. Even if I utterly hate a character I don’t lowball like Jiren I don’t care for him but I have to admit he’s stronger than Beerus

Kefla's last powering up happened right before the fight ended, how did you miss several times Krillin literally saying her power is swelling even more? And you need way better hobbies if you watch a fight many times just so you can debate a character you hate.

You were impling Kefla couldn't beat a fully powered Goku who has no Ultra Instinct and that her power didn't grew again and again, that is lowballing if you want to admit it or not.

@alsimmons77: Krillin said is she planning to ise all her energy

And I wasn’t implying anything that was Vados and Champa

It’s obvious he is.

I havent been following the fanbase too closely lately but is this actually something that people have argued? That kefla is above vegito?

I haven't seen anyone make the claim. She's been getting slightly lowballed recently if anything.

@takenstew22: Gogeta > Kefla

Obviously.