@theheadmasterxx interested? What do you think about this btw? Imo heavy outdated.
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/phantomrant/blog/bastard-wankceptions/139292/
Sounds like the OP was either really misinformed about some things, or it was the typical try to downplay the verse. I can give a quick run of what i think is acceptable, and what is not:
I think that is ok so far, although iirc the official translation also said millions. It doesn´t actually matter, especially in this fight here. The only one who might be comparable to faster combat speed is clearly Pegasus Seiya, who reacted and dodged with a broken leg in Classic to Leo Aiolias 100 million punches in a second:
So let us go by combat speed in this battle we have:
1.) Pegasus Seiya
2.) Dark Schneider
3.) Goku/Mori/Loki/Cha (I don´t know about their combat speed at all, but Goku clearly lacks of a statement tu support such combat speed, nor does he have feats to implicate he is fast as Darsh. The combat speed in DB doesn´t scale to their travel speed or other speed types, period.
Overall PhantomRant makes a good point, but there is something he miss. Those weren´t just punches, those were attacks in general of all kind. The fight happened in hell btw. most of the time where they "punched" eachother. It is kinda obvious that those punches are non-physical.
I give this part of the Debunk an A- for the benefit of doubt. I don´t have the motivation to check the raws again, so i can agree with it. However he forget to mention that they become also stronger and faster the entire time of the battle, which is why he get a minus.
This debunk doesn´t make Darsh or Uriel actually weak, in fact atleast they get a more or less some accurate numbers, while a Son Goku doesn´t have either of this. This makes Dark Schneider unironically to the second fastest guy here in terms of combat speed, unless there is prove that other characters here act faster.
That is actually outdated. Satan claimed, or more it was claimed Satan created hell, but in fact it was later stated that the Demon God actually was the one who created hell.
Anyway, it shouldn´t be much of a problem for Satan to create a universe, as we know the exact amount of Light Energy, that is necessary to replicate such a creation:
Unless Uriel and Gabriel are much more powerful then Satanael, they both surpassed the necessary energy level to replicate such a feat. Both, Abigail and Beelzebub are trustworthy characters, having a good encyclopedic knowledge about their verse, so there is no point in questioning his statement. And since we have Goku here, i can even give some Powerlevel for Bastard (Yes, that exist in the verse too).
Satan as an Angel has a level of 500.000 as an Angel, while as a Demon he has level of 1,150.000.
Uriel as an Angel has a level of 200,000, while as Devil King he has 915,000. Keep in mind that Darsh fought here an Uriel before he got his Augoeides upgrades. You can save assume the power at the level of 915,000 surpassed the universal AP already to an unknown degree. It is too high to calculate.
So for the case people trying to downplay Dark Schneider here, he can be easy argued the same way to universal and beyond, by the same logic a character like Goku can be argued at universal. But then again, AP is irrelevant against Dark Schneider.
I give this a C so far, because of it not being accurate anymore. It was for a certain time period, but we don´t know the whole process afterwards. Plus, if Satan can´t replicate the energy to create a universe, that would mean Darsh and Uriel were more powerful as they already generated an amount of light energy beyond the relevant number. A C is still ok, as i don´t see there a heavy mistake.
I don´t know why he mentioned the Databook, who also has souls as archetype and other broken shit, such as the light of angels can destroy on all lower and higher dimensions, or Satan can generate a defense on every space-time level, but sure, use it. Not that it actually matters, as the entire battle when Dispel Bound was nullified was in hell. In hell, someone like Dark Schneider has no physical body:
There is actually no proof that it can be broken by stuff like brute force or overpowering it with physics. The only way to have some sort of "physical", yet unbound by the physical laws would by by wearing the Augoeides armor which angels have, or materialized their Astral body, yet they are not truely physical. The punches and kicks Uriel and Dark Schneider exchanging, directly targeting EA, so irrelevant for physics:
And before someone argues you can exist in hell physically, because humans found a way into it. Not entirely true. We know that the world of Bastard!! works with some sort of karma system, where in which case the human world becomes too corrupted, Demons will materialize, including hell. When the opposite happens, angels materialized and with that we get heaven back, by turning Earth to Eden. That all thanks to the power of humans:
I mean, even Dark Schneider said it is somehow special that humans can enter the first layer of hell^
This part is getting an E already, because being stronger alone doesn´t make you destroy DB more easy. The relevant parts where he linked to the scans appeared in hell which makes his entire fundament unquantifiable.
Anyway, that should do it for now. Next on the list:
While the other points have atleast some weight, that is where it becomes problematic.
First of all, the link is broken, but i guess it contains the Dimensional Hierarchy Description in his spoiler below. That is easy to debunk by the fact that it describe only the human process of dying, not the process of someone who has actually control over Eternal Atoms. I mean, why did he ignore the significant part about Dispel Bound?
Ignoring the following points:
Demons/Angels/EA User has to be necessary destroyed astrally and ideally.
Demons and Angels can materialize in the material realm to have a material body, which makes 3 different existence.
The regeneration level is said to be on a space-time level.
His comparison to regular humans, like those scans show (What he also stated in his spoiler blog) are for people who have no control over EA:
So, that is the first debunk from my side for this part.
The statement from Konron that he regenerate to slow and that he would be erased, is taken out of context, because you have to see where the fight actually happened:
I could swear that is probably in the same chapter. Why doesn´t he mentioned it? Ofc if you fight a Demon or Angel in his domain, you not have to destroy the physical body on the material plane if given, to eradicate him. Just destroy his mind and soul on his plane, and he can´t resurrect. Meanwhile fighting on the material plane, will not cause such a problems, as you need the abilities to affect across different dimensions, including higher ones.
The part of Dark Schneider his regeneration being weakened because of DKL and Judas Pain is true, especially since Judas Pain erases basically on all said 3 planes. There is however one thing wrong with. He was actually erased, he didn´t transcend to a new form. Also when that happened, don´t forget it was on the material plane as it was after they broke out of the materialized hell:
There is no point by the way to ignore what the Wiseman says, they have more then enough knowledge about scientific aspects in their verse.
I saw people arguing Darsh wasn´t erased because he broke out of DKL, but where is the actual evidence, when we have pictures where Darsh his face deceased and we get a blank picture? I mean, using that logic of visuals Hakai is no Existence Erasure, because we clearly see dust:
So yeah, the entire part about Eternal Atoms is kinda wrong, or not enough thought about it. You need to erase the opponent on 3 different levels of existence, where atleast one is a higher dimension:
The magic in Bastard!! actually works beyond those dimensions^
And even if you have magic, you simply can´t affect those entities as Magic is just a transmutated power from the actual demons, who got their power from God:
And as if that isn´t even enough those interaction across dimensions is relevant, as we can see when Lucien materialized with an Astral Body down to Earth and faced some Angels, who an ability that affect on different dimensional levels. Lucien countered it with a spell who basically absorbs the power on all different levels as well. Space-Time levels of higher dimensions:
There are different space-times, not only higher and lower ones, but also parallel too:
You guys probably wonder, why i tell you that. Well, to destroy Dark Schneider here, you need the abilities to affect on different space-time levels. That doesn´t work with brute force alone ,especially since the Astral World exist before the universe came into existence.
Destroying the universe, would only result in that Dark Schneider can´t regenerate his physical body, but he still has his spirit and soul. He technically can materialize as astral body too, if he want. That should be enough for the start and there is no way to affect the other planes as long they don´t materialized or as long they don´t have the power to manipulate the frequency of their attacks.
That part gets an F, because he confused the function of human souls, with the function of EA users, which are said having total control over their soul in a process. The next issue is, the chain reaction only appeared to same humans, who have no access to Eternal Atoms, which are like every human. Dark Schneider however has EA, so you need indeed to destroy him on several planes. Ignoring the actual description of Demons and Angels Eternal Atoms, just makes it more worse, same with posting the part with Konron, but not the relevance, hell has to his immortality.
The F comes for the heavy amount of misinformation that is spread around by PhantomRant. I don´t know if he aware of it, or if he lacks of a good knowledge about Bastard
That is atleast something i can agree, although the given fact how time works in Bastard and that the Astral Body can ignore such functions, can imply they are moving with infinity speed. However, as like in every other verse, there are some flaws with, especially when time still moves while Uriel is looking at the battle. As i mentioned before all are different space-time levels of dimensions, so time exist and time moves, except for timestop, where angels can still move.
I don´t buy into infinite anything, that includes also Goku and Dragonball in this fight, as nothing is there infinite either. Even DBH isn´t. I can agree with that point atleast, but Gara being only hypersonic is wrong, as he also can operate with SoL attacks and also react to it. So that is also another misinformation by PhantomRant.
That gives a C by me. An A i would only give if there is not the theory possible for infinite speed with General Relativity in Bastard verse, and if he would ignore the Gara part. However, Gara has SoL attacks and he can also keep up with such speeds. Infinite speed in the battle between Uriel and Darsh i don´t really see due the time that happened when Gara watched both fighting. So it is half correct to assume.
He is kinda right, that is taken often out of context, however at point 2 i already prove that there is another way to get Uriel and Darsh both even before EoS to Big Bang level and beyond. So the entire argument isn´t relevant anymore.
The argument might be irrelevant as you can get Darsh and Uriel beyond Universal AP wise, but the context itself is an A immo. It is often in a wrong context, which i can agree with 100%
7.) I mean that is ofc a thing we can debate, but the issue is Uriel was already on the material plane, as he defend the Abyss so that Demons can´t escape. It is unlikely that he teleported to earth, but then again we still have FTL statements, and FTL can be MFTL+ too, as FTL just sait it is faster, and not how much faster. I mean FTL is something what Dragonball gets with Dyspo official the first time too, going by that.
I gived it a B, because it is more or less optional and because he also said they can move at FTL.
8.) Anthrax being FTL i say no. Only Seraphs, which are the highest ranked angels have that statement. But SoL looks more solid with her light rays atleast.
I can give that an A, but one point. It isn´t an outlier, there is no actual FTL statement for Anthrax. Probably more a mistranslation. It is true that humans can´t move or react with FTL speed, but aside from that SoL attacks for Anthrax like his beam shouldn´t be much of an issue.
9.) I see her more as multi-continental tbf, going by the fact that the Earth looked once like our world, and how it was deformed by her into a whole different Map, but anyway.
I don´t care much for the lower tiers here, just pointing out how much wrong with the Debunk Thread is and all that stuff was debunked several times over and over again.
I give this a B, because Anthrax deforming the entire world should put him above continental level already. However there is a statements that Anthrax took XXX days to eradicate like around 70% of the world.
I agree that the battle is kinda unbalanced with the majority being really broken in terms of hax, while Goku unfortunately is more like a brick that doesn´t belong between those overpowered characters. When even Beerus or Zeno would be unable to do something significant here, then what is Goku doing here? You should switch him with the DBH version, so you might get some more fair battle for him
@stroudgoat: now tell me how he kills someone who’s anchored in the past making him immune to any present and future damage.
He can´t unfortunately. In fact most characters here were unable to do so, you already need some timeline BS, where you can affect him into the past, but even that is not as easy as it sounds, because that guy can rewind incoming attacks with his power in base already and when pissed of he can just rewind the existence of an opponent, despite him being an immortal god or not, back to the moment where he doesn´t exist. Not just that, later speed and distance doesn´t even matter for him which means he will blitz almost everyone here, including Goku billions of times, before he can even move his finger.
Oh and also someone who has to be killed in 3 planes of existence simultaneously; 1 of which doesn’t even exist in dbz. I’ll wait.
True, he lacks of the fundament to affect those, especially when you need to find the right frequency to affect the different planes. You can´t even compare the soul in DB with the soul in Bastard as they are entirely different in nature and superior as they work as Concepts/Ideals. And that doesn´t even include the Astral Body. In fact, the regeneration level alone is beyond everything in DBS:
Someone like Darsh was going even further, dude was entirely erased from Eternal Atoms, yet he returned from it. Some people claimed he never did, but the same people often let out all of the relevant scans. So that stuff was debunked over and over again on CV.
That’s 2/4 here
Current Seiya you can add as well, as Goku can´t "kill" him plus he as the character who kinda get fate manipulated in favor of its gods, makes it even more difficult to put him down. In Episode G he just become some close Reinhard van Astrea Bullshit character.
Mori i don´t know enough, but from the Blogs here on CV i saw, Goku also can´t just go to him and attack him, if EoS.
Only one where Goku has a chance to beat him in all fairness could be Cha-Shi-Hun. However, his Transcendence becomes potentially more and more dangerous as long the fight is up. He, who isn´t really that much stronger then a human being, just adapted to Mephistopheles and Gabramelek, who are two of the most powerful entities in Soul Cartel. I am not sure about if he get some immortality or regeneration like Mephistopheles, so without Goku should be able to kill or Hakai him.
So at the end out of 5 opponents Goku faces here, he has a chance atleast against one of those characters. I think i will make Goku vs Cha-Shi-Hun as a match these days, as that is atleast one where i think that this version of Goku has a halfway solid chance to win.
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