I've always taken it for granted, but I'm currently defending Thor in a fight with Superman in another community and was asked to provide proof that Thor's lightnings are magic and couldn't find the scans online no matter how hard I searched. Was it ever stated on panel that his lightnings are magical?

The enchantment on his hammer for one.

@warlock360: Obviously, but that doesn't necessarily mean that his lightnings are also magic

@thetrolldance: Well there seems to be no easy answer. It is partially, and partially it is not. The thunder and storm he can call from the skies is weather manipulation, redirecting what's there basically. Magic by definition is either creating something out of nothing or being something that can't be explained. The lightning part of his lightning that IS magic however, comes from his hammer or his hands, I'll quote a part from his page here:

"Thor has a strong affinity with the forces of weather and acting as a conduct can channel Mjolnir's powers through himself allowing him to summon lighting from his hands."

Though if It's a Superman vs Thor argument, his "magical" lightning wouldn't be the top of what Thor has in his arsenal against Supes.

@warlock360: It obviously isn't, but it's still a solid example of the simple attacks Thor can easily throw at Superman that will hurt him.

Thanks for the comment

no his lightning isnt magical.

I always thought it did not come from his hammer he simply called what ever element was in the area even from space itself. A kind of plasma arc if you would. But magic no , he simply wills it to happen and the universe answers it. Magic would be if he cast a spell and zap tossed some god lightning around not the same thing. So for one that can stand on the sun and look around and say lets put a house here. The burn from a little lightning would tickle. However I still like Thor so hey Tickle away.. lol

@thetrolldance: The weather manipulation doesn't come from his hammer it's from him he's hammer allows him to focus it better he's called down lightning bolts & even made lightning fist without mjolnir . However it COULD be magic cause he makes storms that would never happen for example fire rain . He's also made lightning bolts in space . Thor being a god & most of the gods in Marvel are fueled by their god force & some sort of magic .

But for your argument lightning in generally can hurt supes he's always shown that electricity can harm him . Ocean Master had him & Ww in a lot of pain from his lightning & Thor's lightning is far more superior to his .

Because the Word of God said it is. There's no need for further explanation

well some stories just make no sense. One panel shows him flying through the sun. Where the forces would destroy the earth with earth with ease and then he flies to earth and is hit by a grade c villain and it seems to hurt him. OK what part of this makes sense.

His hammer is what's magic. The lightning is just lightning AFAIK.

Jmarshmallow

Not according Thor's first appearance , in "Journey into Mystery" no.83 when the transformed Dr. Blake is experimenting with the Hammer on page 8. Thor says " by stamping the handle twice on the ground I can create rain or snow.." then on page 9. Thor says ..... "Then to end the storm, I merely stamp this handle three times on the ground !!! "

In "Journey into Mystery" no.84 page 6 Thor is fighting against some jet's Thor whirls his hammer around creating a vortex he states... " With my enchanted hammer I can control the elements' and make them do my bidding ! " On page 12 Thor stamps his hammer four times on the ground to summon lightning bolts.

So when did all that change ?

If they were magical he wouldve summoned it on the world of Gods when they were enslaved

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Idk when exactly it chnaged but even classic Thor use to shoot lightning from his hands. & now they're making proof of it by showing him before he was even able to wield mjolnir. Always when he first came out Gaea wasn't his mother so when he accepted that he gained the earth manip, Things in comics are always changing, at one point in time he didn't even need his hammer to fly.

@uugieboogie said:

@allaric said:

@uugieboogie said:

@thetrolldance: The weather manipulation doesn't come from his hammer it's from him he's hammer allows him to focus it better he's called down lightning bolts & even made lightning fist without mjolnir . However it COULD be magic cause he makes storms that would never happen for example fire rain . He's also made lightning bolts in space . Thor being a god & most of the gods in Marvel are fueled by their god force & some sort of magic .

But for your argument lightning in generally can hurt supes he's always shown that electricity can harm him . Ocean Master had him & Ww in a lot of pain from his lightning & Thor's lightning is far more superior to his .

Not according Thor's first appearance , in "Journey into Mystery" no.83 when the transformed Dr. Blake is experimenting with the Hammer on page 8. Thor says " by stamping the handle twice on the ground I can create rain or snow.." then on page 9. Thor says ..... "Then to end the storm, I merely stamp this handle three times on the ground !!! "

In "Journey into Mystery" no.84 page 6 Thor is fighting against some jet's Thor whirls his hammer around creating a vortex he states... " With my enchanted hammer I can control the elements' and make them do my bidding ! " On page 12 Thor stamps his hammer four times on the ground to summon lightning bolts.

So when did all that change ?

Gallery

Idk when exactly it chnaged but even classic Thor use to shoot lightning from his hands. & now they're making proof of it by showing him before he was even able to wield mjolnir. Always when he first came out Gaea wasn't his mother so when he accepted that he gained the earth manip, Things in comics are always changing, at one point in time he didn't even need his hammer to fly.

In the Radioactive man issue Thor does have his hammer so that one doesn't count , the others only the ones with the younger Thor does he not actually have Mjolnir , and those are all done by Jason Aaron. What it seems is that this new ability to call lightning w/o Mjolnir is being introduced by Aaron as a way of setting up the future stories aka Aaron has planned this from the start.

@allaric: No Classic Thor use to shoot electricity from his hands & fly without Mjolnir . After Thor came back to life he start manipulated earth without his hammer . I think it all really changed when they took that dumb 60 second enchantment off .

I haven't seen anything that says he can fly w/o the hammer.

@allaric: That's because he can't:

Source: God of Thunder #9

@allaric: @thetrolldance: Classic Thor not current Thor . I have a few scans of Classic Thor flying without his hammer . It been usually known that he can levitate without but there's a few of him actually flying without it. It was real inconsistent but here's one . Im not home so I only have the link .

http://s989.photobucket.com/user/RageOfOlympus/media/Thor/FlyWithoutMjolnirInSpace1.jpg.html

I think the most he can do without Mjolnir is hover in the air waiting for the hammer to return to his hand.

As far as the whole "magic" question is concerned, I feel that Marvel's gods are beings based on magical abilities. Sure, Reed Richards and Tony Stark consider them aliens but Marvel's made it pretty clear that the gods are separate entities from extra-terrestrial super powered beings.

Now that I have taken a closer look at the pic's you posted its just the ones with young Thor that he calls lightning w/o Mjolnir , which were all done by Aaron , so that would seem more like Aaron is creating a new history to set up a new story line.

So if as a writer you know that your hero is going to lose Mjolnir but you don't want to change the character so much he is basically nothing like the original then you do some history that enables the character to still use thunder and lightning.

Also if your new Thorina is going to use Mjolnir how will she call thunder and lightning if Mjolnir is only an amplifier ?

@allaric: I hope she can't do squat I absolutely hate the new Thor idea .

I agree , but as you have shown in your pic's Jason Aaron is just going to do back history stories to justify any changes he is making , so whatever is needed to support his new Thorina character he's going to write it in the comic as a back story or some other literary device to make it all work.

@allaric: Its been confirmed in interviews Thor will still have his powers so thats going to be a little awkward lol

@allaric:

Thor was the god of thunder before he ever held mjolnir, the whole point of being worthy is to receive the power of Thor

@barqs:

are you referring to the new background written by Aaron to support his all new Thor current story ?

in previous comics Thor had to have Mjolnir to call thunder and lightning but if Thor calls thunder w/o Mjolnir then what good is it to Thorina ?

Also , what is the power of Thor , is that saying w/o Mjolnir Thor is no stronger than anyone else ,things really get messy when you start rewriting 50 years of comic history

Here is an instance of Thor using his weather manipulation without Mjolnir, I don't know where your getting the idea the Aaron is rewriting the entire history of thor. The enchantment on Mjolnir states "Whosoever holds this hammer, should he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor" not the power of Mjolnir, the power of Thor.

Agreed^^

@barqs:

no Thor still has the Hammer he just not holding it in his hands.

I'm getting the " idea " from reading Thor comics for many years AND Marvels own website ...

Mjolnir...

Extremely durable weapon forged from the Asgardian metal Uru by the command of Odin; favored weapon of Thor. Only those of sound moral character and integrity may lift Mjolnir. The hammer can summon the elements wind, rain, thunder, and lightning for the wielder to use at their discretion. It is able to open interdimensional portals, such as the one to Asgard. Mjolnir possessed the power to bestow the ability of time travel to its wielder until Immortus removed it.

Mjolnir is a virtually unbreakable hammer enchanted by Odin with various enchantments by augmenting its physical qualities via the Odinforce, the life essence of the Asgardian gods, and forged from mystically uru metal, whose chief properties are durability, the ability to maintain enchantment, and absorb energies. Thor shares a unique bond and affinity with Mjolnir, which has been increased further after Dr. Stephen Strange bound Thor's lifeforce to Mjolnir to repair the hammer. Via this bond, Thor has a strong affinity with the forces of weather and acting as a conduct can channel Mjolnir's powers through himself allowing him to summon lighting from his hands.

Those few pictures that you wasted your time posting , it just Thor channeling Mjolnir's power through himself. So you are wrong , I guess you haven't been reading Thor that long or else you would already have known this.

You got that now !!!

Links... http://marvel.com/universe/Mjolnir........http://marvel.com/universe/Thor_complete_powers

@allaric: those websites are a Wiki, which means that anyone can easily edit almost any article plus I showed you scans of Thor using his weather manipulation without Mjolnir, in the one scan he had thrown it away first. Our discussion is getting off topic for this thread, there are many other threads in Thor's forum debating whether or not Thor can manipulate the weather without Mjolnir you should check them out.

LOL have you forgotten Mjolnir always returns to Thor ! That alone should be enough of a clue to you that you are wrong.

Its not really a discussion its just you refusing to accept the truth. Thor has his hammer in both those stories as well as all the others (pre-Aaron) , you can see the hammer in complete pages in reprints of those issues. Also the Marvel.com sites are correct, they are EXACTLY the same as the OFFICIAL MARVEL HANDBOOK regardless of what you choose to believe, it was always that way since the beginning in JIM #83.

Also to the OP , it's not magic , it's Elemental since it is actual lightning, the magic is on the Hammer itself which is enchanted. Thor is not a sorcerer of any kind.

@thetrolldance There is a lightning attack he rarely uses called purest lightning which is said to be a pure magical bolt and think last time he used it was on glory.

Thor can summon lightning without Mjolnir, he could before he got Mjolnir. Anyone who says otherwise has clearly not been doing their homework. Flying without it... that he can also do, but he probably didn't learn how to do it until after he gained Mjolnir, oddly enough. As for the lightning... difficult, but it has been noted that Thor's lightning can do things natural lightning can't, to the bafflement of scientists such as Dane Whitman, who was very confused when a bolt of Thor's lightning sealed a hole in the ground. So there is something supernatural about it.

As for the new female Thor, I'm quite interested in it. Jason Aaron's played a blinder so far, and all the hints, based on everything he's said and everything written so far in the series, is that it's going to be an exploration of exactly what qualities make someone worthy to wield Mjolnir. As for Thor himself, he'll probably go on a soul searching tour. You know, have axe, will travel. That, or judging by his new shirtless look, take up modelling.

@allaric: You got to remember tho classic Thor had the 60 second enchantment where if he didn't hold Mjolnir for over a minute he would revert back to Donald Blake so even when he didn't have Mjolnir for less than a minute he still was Thor and still possess his godly powers and we are seeing that now with the current Thor since the 60 seconds enchantment is gone.

There's no point in arguing with anyone. Those marvel wikis were probably edited by Hammerette fans who want her to possess Thor's powers without dispute. Three things:

1) thor was young and mjolnir was nowhere in sight nor was it his yet. He cast lightning and called himself the "God of Thunder" in front of Gorr. Done.

2) thor disassembled- the narration says it and the hammer was nothing but a handle at this point: "massive lightning burst from within him" or something to that affect.

3) when thor killed Loki way back when it stated he became one with his hammer and used HIS deadliest power which was to drain the life force out of another god.

As an addition, plain English states it: whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of.....Mjolnir?.......nope.......THOR!!!

End of discussion. Only a lame brain would keep arguing and refuting what is fact.

@allaric said:

@barqs said:

@allaric: those websites are a Wiki, which means that anyone can easily edit almost any article plus I showed you scans of Thor using his weather manipulation without Mjolnir, in the one scan he had thrown it away first. Our discussion is getting off topic for this thread, there are many other threads in Thor's forum debating whether or not Thor can manipulate the weather without Mjolnir you should check them out.

LOL have you forgotten Mjolnir always returns to Thor ! That alone should be enough of a clue to you that you are wrong.

Its not really a discussion its just you refusing to accept the truth. Thor has his hammer in both those stories as well as all the others (pre-Aaron) , you can see the hammer in complete pages in reprints of those issues. Also the Marvel.com sites are correct, they are EXACTLY the same as the OFFICIAL MARVEL HANDBOOK regardless of what you choose to believe, it was always that way since the beginning in JIM #83.

Also to the OP , it's not magic , it's Elemental since it is actual lightning, the magic is on the Hammer itself which is enchanted. Thor is not a sorcerer of any kind.

Thats not true, Thor DOES know magic and can cast small scale spells, he did it against Malekeith once, and then went on to say having a brother like Loki you learn a thing or two about using magic, its in the GOT series.

Well if Tony Stark said he needed magic that comes from Thor's lightning, then there is definitely something not scientific there: (right to left)

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Here is Thor control over magical storms from the realm of Cragmouth, one of them is even a being called Godstorm. Odin even describes It as "storm-magicks": (right to left)

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How is It possible to a storm to make It rain fire?:

And if you're asking if Thor is capable of doing magic well he already did an Illusion that actually tricked Malekith, although in the case of lighting Thor is a magical being and not a mutant, he calls his lightnings and storms because It's part of his natural abilities granted by his god-force which is magical and so Thor's omnipotence over the weather is based on his manipulation through Asgardian life-force.

And here:

Firing blasts with no hammer in site

@uugieboogie: I know this is 4 years old. But no lightning can't hurt Supes, not unless it's in massive amounts, because he's been struck by lightning plenty of times with no effect, been electrocuted by cables, to no avail. Superman even stated against this foe who channels energy in all forms, " It takes more than lighting to stop me." It would have to be in massive amounts, like enough to power a large city in one incident. Thor can generate mystical lightning from his hammer. As his hammer is capable of generating mystical energy.

In the comics Asgardians are magical/supernatural beings by nature. They're not random aliens or mutants.

I don't have the scans, but I remember reading that his lightning without Mjolnir is natural, but his lightning through Mjolnir is magic. Something or someone brought this up previously as to why during Axis when he was unworthy and fighting Loki wielding Mjolnir, he specified that he could drop lightning on Loki cause they were in the "blue area" of the moon that had atmosphere and oxygen. But with Mjolnir, and usually only with Mjolnir (or one of his current crappy hammers), he can summon lightning in the vacuum of space.

I may be wrong, but that's how I remember it.