Welcome to what should be a pretty interesting matchup featuring two relatively underutilized characters from their respective series, today the Grim Reaper and Spriggan 12 member Bloodman takes on the former Warlord Gecko Moriah.
@edgelord91: You can't quantity how much stronger Gajeel is in his base now when compared to Alvarez. Every Spriggan who's made an appearance so far has shown to still be relevant. GS straight up destroyed Gajeel. So no, it's not "easy" to debunk in any sense.
There are very few characters in Fairy Tail that had me scratching my head by the end of it, wanting more and trying to wrap my head around their being. One of them being Bloodman, a member of Zeref's personal guard known as the Spriggan 12 and he truly was different than the others. In a world full of mages where dragons take supremacy over everything else like humans and demons alike, Bloodman broke the mold and reached the upper echelons of power with little amount of magical power. What made him different? He utilized curses, but not just any curses, the curses of the 9 Demon Gates of Tartaros. A power was so overwhelming, that the group were on their way to annihilating the continent's supply of magic until the dragons came to save them from the calamity that was Acnologia. But I'm getting ahead of myself here, let me take a step back. Before I continue, let me give you some context. Long ago, there was the 'One Magic' that was the original source of all the powers that we know today.
Over time, this original source split into many different types that also evolved into the sorts of powers we see in the modern day. Like everything else however, it can be corrupted and the dark aspects of this power can be utilized for darker goals. Greed, hatred, envy, pride, and any negative emotion humans carry are the very source of curse power. What's important to understand is that it's not magic despite having similarities and its history. Actually, in the words of Mard Geer himself, curse power is actually far superior to that of magic and similar words were echoed. So in knowing that, this leads to talking about what sort of curses Bloodman himself uses which are the powers of the 9 Demon Gates. Each Gate has his/her own power that targets different things whether it be mind or soul manipulation amongst others. With all that said, in this first post I'll be going over the ones that I think will lead to victory the most and the others will come as I make my counters. I would also like to point a disclaimer before I start that while Bloodman has not shown to use every single curse, he has stated to be able to use all of them without prejudice. I want to bring this up because at some point I'm going to argue that Bloodman is capable of utilizing a power he's technically never used in the manga and someone might try and call that out. He can use these powers, we've seen him do it to an extent so we can argue how he's going to fight and eventually win. Not only that, but it's also extremely important to remember that Bloodman is far stronger than all the members of Tartaros canonically so it's obvious that he can use their curses far better than them and to a much more potent degree. Without further ado, let's begin:
Hax
This will be the bread and butter of Bloodman.
Part I: Silver Fullbuster
So we're going to begin with Silver Fullbuster's signature power which is his ice devil slaying magic that was introduced during the Sun Village arc. It was an extremely potent ice to say the least, so much so that Natsu couldn't melt a single piece of it and was used to flash-freeze Natsu completely. It first used by Silver to freeze the entire village including those who lived there along with the lingering soul of Atlas Flame who was a powerful dragon who's entire being is solely made out of flames. A fire dragon who's made out of fire pretty much. The crazy thing to consider is that the village is located in the middle of a desert according to Warrod, a member of the council. Knowing this, we can easily assume that Silver's ice is operating some crazy temperatures. For reference, dry ice reaches a temp of -78.5 C (-109.3F) and is quite literally one of the coldest substances on the planet and yet still sublimates after being exposed to both temperature and atmospheric pressure after 24 hours. The anime really puts into perspective the sheer size of the frozen area, as we can see it is stretches far and even further than the observable horizon. We can even use this aerial view to also confirm this.
Not even Natsu could make a dent in the ice with his base flames considering they have incredible feats which is saying something because he can easily melt substances such as glass, concrete, and rock formations without much difficulty whatsoever. Even Gray, a master at ice-make magic, couldn't leave a dent in it and he's capable of using other people's ice magic to his own advantage. Gray's ice is capable of freezing tornadoes and the even the air itself without much difficulty yet Silver treated him like a child in their actual fight, going as far as using Gray's ice to replenish his own power. Point being, it's a potent power that Bloodman used to counter Gajeel's iron roar which, in terms of raw power, is comparable to that of Natsu.
Part II: Franmalth
Next on the list is Franmalth's signature power, the curse of absorption. It allows the user to drain the power strength and even the soul of their opponent simply by making contact. What makes this power greater than standard absorption is that the user can target the soul of an incoming attack and take it for their own.
Chapter 375
Part III: Mard Geer
The leader of Tartaros has some pretty crazy power, his Momento Mori (which I'll go over after) and his Thorn Curse. There are a variety of uses for his thorns which are capable of growing forever and extremely sharp as they can casually slice through the Celestial Spirit King, and can generate large scale attacks. Bloodman has shown the power to use them too, piercing Gajeel with pure ease. Against Sting and Rogue, Mard Geer used his thorns to create large scale explosions explosions which only add to his overall AoE. However, Mard Geer is extremely versatile so he also has this rose explosion which can be used to sneakily create powerful attacks against Moriah
Chapter 406
While the Thorns are a powerful threat on their own, as spamming them will throw Moriah off guard which will allow Bloodman to use his other powers, they pale in comparison to Mard Geer's ultimate curse: Momento Mori. The ultimate destructive power which eliminates the concept of both life and death and the victim ceases to exist entirely. It's effectively both concept manipulation and existence erasure in one single attack. Ok, so this attack right here in my opinion is one of the biggest factors in this fight as it's the most potent attack of all the Tartaros curses. Now, you might try and argue that it won't work because of the way things unfolded in the manga, but that would be lazy. The only reason as to why Natsu and Gray didn't disappear was because Silver's power was capable of fending it off.
Kyoka's enhancement curse is one of the deadliest ones that exist as there are numerous showings of it in a variety of uses. Using it, Bloodman could enhance his own strength multiple times to an immense degree by the second or cause his own attacks, be it curse or physical, to deal more damage than usual. That's the true nature of the curse, to target the senses of the opponent and affect them in a magnitude of ways. If things aren't working for whatever reason, Bloodman could just say screw it, and completely strip Moriah of all his senses rendering him useless in the fight.
Chapter 404
Part VI: Intangbility
Ok, now that we've gotten his main curses out of the way, it's time to talk about Bloodman's intangibility. Sure to play a big role in this fight, Bloodman's body is made up completely of poisonous bane particles which would kill the opponent just from being in the same vicinity, hell just inhaling a little bit can be fatal. Standard attacks are useless as shown multiple times and the only way to combat them is to have special lungs the dragon slayers carry which Moriah doesn't. Actually, having "special" lungs wouldn't be enough as Laxus was still close to death after inhaling the Anti-Magic particles that Tempester gave off. The ONLY reason why Gajeel didn't die within seconds is because his lungs are made of iron, another fight specific situation which Moriah doesn't have the benefit of having.
Chapter 486
Three Seals of Death
Bloodman has a unique ability known as the Three Seals that each have their own way of taking life. The first is that of his Anti-Magic Particles which are extremely poisnous. The second seal summons a sea of skulls that kill anyone it touches without prejudice and is only capable of being countered with holy magic. Another example of Gajeel being saved for the millionth time and would've been massacred had it been a 1v1.
Chapter 486
The third, and final, seal is when Bloodman releases his etherious state and uses an attack called over-skeletor which is one of Bloodman's most powerful techniques. It summons a vortex of skulls that, like the other seal, steals the life of anyone who gets sucked up between it.
Speed
Ok so this is going to require a bit of scaling because Bloodman himself doesn't have an abundance of feats anyways. He can go toe to toe with Alvarez Gajeel so we can measure Gajeel's speed and confidently say that Bloodman is relative. Ok so Gajeel is relative to Base Natsu (we know this because they've fought to a stalemate in the sequel) and the latter is capable of dodging and reacting to attacks from Aldoron. Why do I bring this up? Because Aldoron is an equal to Acnologia putting him far above the parent dragons and Igneel. Now here's the crux of it all, the parent dragons have the feat of crossing the entire continent of Ishgar and destroying all the face bombs within a couple second.
Chapter 412
Now the continent is massive, dare I say it's most likely larger than Eurasia. My reasoning is simple, using a map of Fiore, we can see that the distance between Magnolia and Hargeon is 370 km. An irl comparison would be that of the state of Kansas which is only 343 km in length, putting that 370 km greater than that of European countries such as Switzerland, Austria, and Croatia. So all in all, I'd put the feat, and subsequently the speed of Gajeel, Natsu, and Bloodman, easily in the quad mach range.
Just to be safe, Gajeel, on two occasions, blitzed or dodged Laxus' lightning which has feats of being as fast as Mach 900 in Laxus' fight against Wahl. Pretty much Wahl fires high speed bullets at Laxus from point blank range, and Laxus is capable of breaking the bullets with his lightning before they can touch him.
Gallery
As for the numbers:
"For reference, your average bullet can move 5 meters in 0.007 seconds(they move at speeds of 762 meters per second), meaning Laxus' lightning would have to have come down from the clouds in that timeframe to vaporise all of Wall's bullets before they could cover the distance between the two of them. For reference, regular cloud to ground lightning takes about 0.021 seconds to cover the same distance, which would make Laxus' lightning 3 times faster, or about Mach 850. This math also matches up with the fact that low-level clouds manifest at around 2 kilometres above ground level, and Laxus' lightning covering that distance in such a short timeframe would also be around Mach 900. And both Natsu and characters that are equal to his base form dodged this very lightning" -HitTheAssassin
The lightning is Mach 900 and Gajeel has feats of dodging and blitzing it from very early on in the series. That, coupled with the introduction of the second origin which allowed the main cast to essentially double their power by unlocking a second 'container of power,' this would also put Alvarez arc Gajeel easily within the quad digit mach range.
Conclusion
That should be it for now. I refrained from putting a "strength & durability" section because I don't believe Bloodman needs it. He's mainly a hax monster and that's how he fights, completely different from a physical monster. However, if need be, I can do it in the next section if requested. Bloodman should definitely have the advantages in versatility and higher potency level attacks.
Gecko Moriah was a former member of the 7 Warlords, a faction that comprises the 3 Great Powers balancing each other out in the world of One Piece, the other 2 being the 4 Yonko and the Marines. After suffering a crushing defeat at the hands of Kaido, Moriah developed a perverted life philosophy of using his subordinates at any cost to reach the title of Pirate King. With this objective, the help of his powers and a talented surgeon named Dr. Hogback, Moriah turned his pirate ship of Thriller Bark into a living nightmare comprising zombie abominations, ghosts and his countless victims over the years, until he was defeated by the Straw Hats in a chance turn of events. Following a rough stint at the Summit War, Moriah was on the run from the World Government and is presently imprisoned by Blackbeard.
Devil Fruit
You have made it abundantly clear that Bloodman is not going down here on sheer stats alone, so let's cut straight to Moriah's DF which he utilizes very heavily in combat.
Moriah ate the Kage Kage no mi, which is a Paramecia type fruit that as the name suggests gives him the ability to freely manipulate shadows, and Moriah uses this in a plethora of nasty ways.
The most basic but still arguably most lethal application is that Moriah can interact with the shadows of others as if they were solid, and cut them away with a scissor.
Gallery
Doing this instantly puts the original owner of the shadow to sleep and they enter a 2 day coma, furthermore a shadowless individual will disintegrate when exposed to direct sunlight:
Gallery
Moriah can also put these stolen shadows into corpses which reanimates the corpse with the same personality, skill and battle experience of the original owner. These shadows and by extension the zombies are gonna display absolute obedience to Moriah:
Gallery
Before we proceed further I wanna take a moment to explore what exactly these "shadows" are in this context and their relation to souls/lifeforce in OP.
For starters WCI explicitly confirms that lifeforce and soul are one and the same in OP:
Gallery
Now if you look at Brook's exposition scan that I just posted, he describes the shadow as "another soul" but it's important to realize the arc draws a clear distinction between the shadow and the actual soul/lifeforce of the individual. This is supported by the following:
1) The individuals who have their shadow stolen don't just die, in fact they don't even get nerfed combat, personality or intellect wise in any way, they just lose their reflections, don't cast a shadow and disintegrate under sunlight. As opposed to Big Mom stealing the actual lifeforce/soul where the victims do in fact die.
2) Everyone's favorite Gentleman Skeleton Brook is powered wholly by the energy from his soul, from attacks and special techniques right down to walking and talking, something explicitly stated after the timeskip:
Yet Brook didn't become a vegetable once his shadow was stolen, proving the shadow is clearly something entirely different from the conventional soul/lifeforce as we understand it in the verse.
It's best to think of shadows as their own distinct source of energy, mutually exclusive from souls/lifeforce however sharing certain functional similarities while being manipulated by Moriah's powers.
This will become relevant in a moment but for now I want to discuss the other distinct application for Moriah's fruit, that is he can create various shadow constructs to aid him in combat.
This can include a swarm of bats which can intercept Luffy, tank his attacks and noticeably slow him down, and even overwhelm someone like Robin who can spam limbs herself:
Gallery
He can even coalesce these bats into a swarm for a powerful piercing attack that was able to pierce even Oars Jr at MF:
Next up is arguably Moriah's most broken asset, the Doppleman. This is simply Moriah's own shadow that can for starters block attacks intended for him and fight in his place:
Gallery
As you can see this thing is fast enough to intercept Luffy and strong and durable enough to tank his attacks. Although durability hardly matters for it as it's basically like a shadow logia and can freely disperse and reform as you can see in the 3rd scan. Even joint based attacks like Robin's neck snap are ineffective on Doppleman. Moriah can also switch places with Doppleman at will which he abuses to avoid damage:
Gallery
Obviously a very broken get out of jail free card as Moriah can easily avoid otherwise lethal damage that'd have no effect on Doppleman.
Another incredibly broken thing Doppleman can do is phase inside the shadows of his opponents and control the shadows to execute what is known as Shadow Revolution. The idea of this is that normally the form and movements of the shadow follows that of the physical body, but Moriah's powers can flip this on its head, forcing the physical body to follow the form and movements of the shadow:
Gallery
He used this ability to stretch Oars' limbs Luffy style and turn him into a ball which should be physically impossible, as such I would honestly argue this is straight up concept manipulation/reality warping.
Lastly Moriah's shadows should be incredibly fast, as they should be on the level if not higher than this incredible feat performed by the shadows of random fodder pirates and civilians:
Gallery
So basically once Moriah was defeated all the shadows he had stolen returned to their original owners, some crossing to distant parts of the Grand Line and even the West Blue in what shouldn't be more than seconds at best. To put this in perspective this is where the West Blue should be compared to Thriller Bark:
Essentially on the other side of the planet, absolutely insane in and of itself but completely bonkers if you start factoring in the OP planet being giant.
He can also make a Black Box, which is well........a black box he can use to trap his opponents inside. This box is stupidly durable, can tank repeated hits from Shadow's Asgard Moriah:
Gallery
On that note his final ability is Shadow's Asgard where he takes in a 1000 shadows from all the zombies on Thriller Bark to get a massive stat amp:
Oars being the same guy who pulled continents, islands and countries in his prime and was further amped by Moria's Shadow Revolution giving him Luffy's stretching abilities for more power. Shadow's Asgard is >> even that amped Oars. As we discussed both combatants have access to everything they'd normally use in a fight which would include the shadows from Thriller Bark.
This is honestly a good enough juncture to segue way into stats for a bit and present some of the prior scaling up till this point.
D
In this section, I'll go over some PTS scaling that Moriah benefits from and some of the extraordinary wonders of the One Piece world. So first and foremost, we will begin with said characters that will allow for an easy chain of scaling beginning in Little Garden with the debut of the island eat and the two giants, Dorry and Brogy who are residents of Little Garden. The island received it's name due to it's various abnormalities as the inhabitants are so large, everything in comparison is considered to be small. Even as early as this mini arc we were introduced to the a creature known as the island devourer which would obviously eat islands and this isn't just hyperbole seeing as how the giants confirm this themselves.
What's impressive is that the giants were able to overpower the beast with air pressure alone from dozens, if not hundreds, of meters away. Sure there was two of them, but that part also requires a bit of context. The two giants have been on the island for hundreds of years doing battle. They were nowhere at their physical best and their weapons were explicitly states to have become rusty and run-down. Not to mention, Dorry was attacked with an explosion that went off inside his stomach so it would make sense to claim that each one of these giants carry island level power.
Onto Skypeia there were the feats regarding the bean-stalk which I'll go over. Pretty much the bean-stack is a massive, bean-stalk that is in the middle of Skypeia and was powerful enough to pierce right through Skypeia and completely take the impact of the island. With all that being said, there was Zoro who was very much able to pierce right through it which is an island-level feat.
Gallery
Aside from Zoro, Enel has shown feats on par, if not greater, than slicing the bean-stalk such as his El-Thor which pierced right through the clouds with a large beam of electricity that left a decently big crater.
With the island-eater, this isn't the first time the One Piece world has shown to have abnormalities wonders that exist. Aside from the island-eater, there was the legend of Oars who was known as the continent puller in the Vivre Card and an image of him doing in a One Piece magazine. He garnered a legend for creating an entire country by literally piecing together different countries like a puzzle which should put him above the Dorry and Boggy. During Thriller Bark, Sanji and Zoro were able to fight Oars and deflect his attacks with their own. This is consistent with Zoro's bean-stalk feat and everyone mentioned so far is above the feat in Little Garden.
Gallery
Credits: Cosmic Emperor
I know I didn't start this section to discuss stats but here we are lol and given the scaling I'd put base Moriah at like large island lvl (as he should at least be comparable to Doppleman which seems to be stronger than base Luffy, Moriah himself also tanked a direct hit from base Luffy with mild annoyance at worst), this of course also includes the potency of his shadow constructs, and his Shadow's Asgard form pushing country.
Something like a blast of ice would just be blocked by Moriah's shadow constructs (which is his go to fighting style) on whom freezing should have no effect or tele swapped with Doppleman if required.
Trying to get close enough for physical contact with Moriah is not a good idea as it will just allow him to grab Bloodman's shadow, ragdoll him and cut the shadow apart instantly winning the fight. Bloodman has no knowledge let alone any counter for this.
What makes this power greater than standard absorption is that the user can target the soul of an incoming attack and take it for their own.
Won't work on shadows which are nothing like souls as proven.
The leader of Tartaros has some pretty crazy power, his Momento Mori (which I'll go over after) and his Thorn Curse. There are a variety of uses for his thorns which are capable of growing forever and extremely sharp as they cancasually slice through the Celestial Spirit King, and cangenerate large scale attacks.Bloodman has shown the power to use them too, piercingGajeel with pure ease.Against Sting and Rogue, Mard Geer used his thorns to create large scale explosions explosions which only add to his overall AoE. However, Mard Geer is extremely versatile so he also has this rose explosion which can be used to sneakily create powerful attacks against Moriah
I will wait for you to discuss the potency behind these things which are basically just physical explosion and piercing attacks from what I can see. Doppleman or the bat swarm should be more than enough to handle these.
While the Thorns are a powerful threat on their own, as spamming them will throw Moriah off guard which will allow Bloodman to use his other powers, they pale in comparison to Mard Geer's ultimate curse:Momento Mori.The ultimate destructive powerwhich eliminates the concept of both life and death and the victim ceases to exist entirely.It's effectively both concept manipulation and existence erasure in one single attack.
I have my reservations on whether Bloodman can use this specific curse as Memento Mori is not an innate ability of the Nine Demon Gates or Mard but was developed later to kill Zeref. Furthermore I find it unlikely that a guy who basically identifies as "death" and would not shut up about it has access to or in fact even knowledge of something that as you said eliminates the very concepts of life and death. Not convinced on this one, chief.
Now, you might try and argue that it won't work because of the way things unfolded in the manga, but that would be lazy. The only reason as to why Natsu and Gray didn't disappear was because Silver's power was capable of fending it off.
Not to downplay just curious is there any specific implication of Demon Slayer powers providing hax resistance? I mean can't it just be Gray powering up and resisting it which there's precedence for in FT?
Regardless shouldn't be a problem. If we look at how Memento Mori is applied, it's not as if Mard Geer snaps his fingers and his targets just cease to exist instantly, the process first has to envelop the targets in a mist:
Gallery
Which Moriah can easily escape using tele swap with Doppleman. Not sure how the mist paralyzed Natsu and Gray but it's probably poison based in which case Doppleman escapes too as poison would have no effect on it and it certainly got the speed. Also I doubt Memento Mori would have any effect on shadows or non living objects in general which are already "neither alive nor dead".
Moriah has incredible mental resistance. You need to be very mentally tough to take in shadows as otherwise you pass out plus even if you don't you need to be mentally tough enough to not lose your original personality:
Gallery
Normal pirates can withstand only 2 or 3, Luffy withstood a 100 without passing out and still retained his personality, Moriah did the same but to a staggering 1000 shadows in Shadow's Asgard.
Apart from this in OP resistance to stuff like mind control scales with overall power so all in all Moriah should be fine:
Kyoka's enhancement curse is one of the deadliest ones that exist as there are numerous showings of it in a variety of uses. Using it, Bloodman could enhance his own strengthmultiple times to an immense degreeby the second or cause his own attacks, be it curse or physical,to deal more damage than usual.That's the true nature of the curse, to target the senses of the opponent and affect them in a magnitude of ways. If things aren't working for whatever reason, Bloodman could just say screw it, and completelystrip Moriah of all his senses rendering him useless in the fight.
You should start realizing that anything that resembles a projectile and requires physical contact to work like AoE lightning shaped spikes will simply be blocked by shadows on whom such an ability is meaningless or tele swapped with Doppleman if Moriah is feeling really pressured. Stat amplification is cool but it's something Moriah can do too if required and this is not a particularly stat reliant fight either way.
Ok, now that we've gotten his main curses out of the way, it's time to talk about Bloodman's intangibility. Sure to play a big role in this fight, Bloodman's body is made up completely of poisonous bane particles which would kill the opponent just from being in the same vicinity, hell just inhaling a little bit can be fatal. Standard attacks are useless as shown multiple times and the only way to combat them is to have special lungs the dragon slayers carry which Moriah doesn't. Actually, having "special" lungs wouldn't be enough as Laxus was still close to death after inhaling the Anti-Magic particles that Tempester gave off. The ONLY reason why Gajeel didn't die within seconds is because his lungs are made of iron, another fight specific situation which Moriah doesn't have the benefit of having.
Intangibility won't mean a thing when Moriah cuts out his shadow. I am not sure why you think Anti Magic particles are a factor at all, your own scans say they work by obliterating the ethernanos in the air, causing Magic deficiency disease, which is fatal to wizards. Something reemphasized by Bloodman as well:
What does Moriah who is not a wizard and has nothing to do with ethernano have to fear from this?
Although if really required I guess Moriah can just trap Bloodman and his anti magic particles in Black Box.
Bloodman has a unique ability known as the Three Seals that each have their own way of taking life. The first is that of his Anti-Magic Particles which are extremely poisnous. The second seal summons a sea of skulls that kill anyone it touches without prejudice and is only capable of beingcountered with holy magic.Another example of Gajeel being saved for the millionth time and would've been massacred had it been a 1v1.
The third, and final, seal is when Bloodman releases his etherious state and uses an attack called over-skeletor which is one of Bloodman's most powerful techniques. It summons a vortex of skulls that, like the other seal, steals the life of anyone who gets sucked up between it.
I don't see why anti magic will have any effect and the life force sucking skulls would just be blocked and destroyed by Moriah's own bat swarm. The skulls have no stats or durability feats, just hax that won't work on shadows.
Now here's the crux of it all, the parent dragons have the feat of crossing the entire continent of Ishgar and destroying all theface bombs within a couple second.
The best feat you presented but obviously overshadowed by the shadows' feat of crossing like half the planet in seconds. Moriah has the speed advantage here.
Initial Thoughts
Bloodman is very formidable but I think Moriah's own hax and resources are nasty enough to fight back and win here. Bloodman definitely is one to resort to cqc as shown in his fight with Gajeel in which case he is leaving himself very vulnerable to a quick shadow steal, especially considering he has no knowledge on Moriah's powers and Moriah can use his tele swapping for a further element of surprise. Shadow Revolution can also be used to completely incap Bloodman. While Moriah has no knowledge on Bloodman either I think his natural fighting style of always using his shadow constructs is an effective counter for most of Bloodman's abilities. Doppleman alone would completely stone wall Bloodman as none of his curses will work on it, leaving the actual Moriah free to exploit the right window to steal his shadow instantly ending the fight. And I also think Moriah has the stat and speed advantage for now.
All in all Moriah should end up getting a nice shadow for his troubles.
Super duper minor nitpick which quite literally is just a spelling error, in the second spoiler in the devil fruit section you say "Doffy" in the first sentence instead of "Moria" that's really it it was just bugging me XD.
1) Thanks and yeah that's because I just copy pasted lol, but fixed now.
No problem :)
Oh and just a little thing about your response again which I think you could change in a next respose or what not if you want is that in the counter's section like 8 points down when you talk about how "Normal pirates can withstand 2-3 shadows."
The fact that those pirates are in the grandline and have survived that far in already means they would be far stronger than most East Blue villains already and in fact Charlotte Chiffon (who's part of Big Mom's family) and such have Zombie's like Lola which are very strong all of which points to them being quite strong (they are in the grandline after all as I said).
As such them only being able to withstand 2-3 shadows at max makes Luffy’s and Moria's feat that much more impressive.
And a 100 shadow Luffy could overpower power Oars and Moria has 1000 shadows (including Luffy’s and the strawhats shadows) so Shadows Asgard Moria should be FAR stronger than Oars which I think you should have emphasized more...
But then again this is all of just stuff I thought of, of which you can consider as you like as after all this is yall's CAV I don't want to seem like I'm being imposing at all!
2) CV just isn't letting me post so I'm just waiting for this 'bug' to pass. But yea, my counter is ready.
I've ran into such a problem sometimes. It helps of I copy my response, refresh (or even close/reopen the site), then paste it back but you could have a slightly different problem than what I've had and this might not help but if you want you could try what I did.
1) I tried that but it keeps saying CRV Token invalid. Idk, I'll just wait until it gets fixed ig.
Hmm have you redid your links and reuploaded your images I find that can help as there could've been a problem during the download/upload process which inhibits you from posting.
Other than that and/or literally like closing the entire website on all platforms then booting it up again (or even signing in/out) I don't got any other tips to help out (hope it works out for you).
The wait is over, let's kick this into second gear.
Round 2
Alright so I read your counter and I don't necessarily agree with the things you said about Moriah. Pretty cool devil fruit that has some lethal uses but my issues with your post (obviously) comes up with how you think Bloodman stacks up in this fight. Before I get into the nuance of it all, I would like to just remind you and everyone reading this that the rules dictate that both combatants are fighting very seriously. This also means Bloodman will be gunning for the win and fighting in a smart manner. Why is this important? Because of Bloodman's secret weapon, Tenchi Kaimei.
You and I both know where I'm going with this. The kryptonite of all devil fruit users is water and this ability definitely fits the bill. In fact, Oda has actually talked about this weakness in depth and he tells us that all types of "standing water" affect devil fruit users to the point where not only can they not user their powers completely, they wouldn't be able to even move their bodies when submerged. This was also stated in the manga which just confirms this even more.
SBS Vol. 41: The "sea" here can refer to anything from rivers, pools and baths to any kind of standing water. On a worldwide level, they are all the "sea." When these people enter the water, not only can they not use their powers, they have trouble moving their bodies at all. They might be able to struggle a bit, but it wouldn't do much good. That's if their entire bodies are submerged in the "sea." With less than half the body or just the limbs, it gets easier.
Now while all this is deadly, it doesn't end here for Moriah. A big aspect of his skillset that you talked about was his zombie army that he can command at anytime throughout this fight. Unfortunately for you, Tenchi Kaimei will also render those zombies useless because as we know from the Marineford War arc, Moriah's zombies are weak to saltwater. By the time Jinbei got to them, they were nothing more than basic fodder. Tenchi Kaimei has been referred to as a 'sea' many times which as we know, sea-water carries tons of salt.
I'm sure you're going to try and counter this but as it stands right now, this alone would give Bloodman the easy win all things considered.
Bloodman vs Moriah
Ok, this section will be me analyzing your abilities and contrasting how Bloodman stacks up.
The most basic but still arguably most lethal application is that Moriah can interact with the shadows of others as if they were solid, and cut them away with a scissor.
Gallery
Doing this instantly puts the original owner of the shadow to sleep and they enter a 2 day coma, furthermore a shadowless individual will disintegrate when exposed to direct sunlight:
A potent ability indeed but I'm extremely skeptical at how Moriah is going to cover that distance. His speed isn't so far above Bloodman that he'll be blitzing him as if Bloodman was a statue nor is he the type of fighter to try and blitz him anyways. Bloodman is a fighter that keeps the distance (as shown with his fight against Gajeel) and will try his best to keep Moriah away from him. Either Bloodman will flood the battlefield, or spam dozens of thorns that will pierce Moriah or spam explosions and other disasters to keep him at bay.
Moriah can also put these stolen shadows into corpses which reanimates the corpse with the same personality, skill and battle experience of the original owner. These shadows and by extension the zombies are gonna display absolute obedience to Moriah:
And they're also useless because of Tenchi Kaimei and will be fodder the way Jinbei made them to be.
Yet Brook didn't become a vegetable once his shadow was stolen, proving the shadow is clearly something entirely different from the conventional soul/lifeforce as we understand it in the verse.
It's best to think of shadows as their own distinct source of energy, mutually exclusive from souls/lifeforce however sharing certain functional similarities while being manipulated by Moriah's powers.
This will become relevant in a moment but for now I want to discuss the other distinct application for Moriah's fruit, that is he can create various shadow constructs to aid him in combat.
So they (shadows) aren't souls 100% but share similarities is what you're saying and are all manipulated by Moriah. That's cool, and I want to ask about how that would go against Franmalth's curese. Ignoring Tench Kaimei for just a second, would Bloodman be able to absorb the shadows "soul" given it's properties? Just to remind everyone, not only can Franmalth's curse allow him to absorb the soul of the opponent, but also the souls of the opponent's attacks.
Next up is arguably Moriah's most broken asset, the Doppleman. This is simply Moriah's own shadow that can for starters block attacks intended for him and fight in his place:
Gallery
As you can see this thing is fast enough to intercept Luffy and strong and durable enough to tank his attacks. Although durability hardly matters for it as it's basically like a shadow logia and can freely disperse and reform as you can see in the 3rd scan. Even joint based attacks like Robin's neck snap are ineffective on Doppleman. Moriah can also switch places with Doppleman at will which he abuses to avoid damage:
Gallery
Obviously a very broken get out of jail free card as Moriah can easily avoid otherwise lethal damage that'd have no effect on Doppleman.
So where is the resistance to extremely potent ice like you claimed in your opener? Or the resistance to Kyouka's curse? Or the resistance to Tenchi Kaimei? All I'm seeing is Doppelman go against physical attacks from both Robin and Luffy, both of which are not anything similar to what Bloodman has. If this is Moriah's deadliest fruit ability, this is going to be quite the uphill battle for you.
He can also make aBlack Box,which is well........a black box he can use to trap his opponents inside. This box is stupidly durable, can tank repeated hits from Shadow's Asgard Moriah:
Yea but it also got ripped apart by Luffy so I don't see why this is going to pose a problem to Bloodman.
Your Counters
I won't go after everything you said in your initial counters, I'll only respond to things that I disagree with because there are certain counters you made that are valid such as the whole ethernano poison schtick from Bloodman. Let's get into it:
Something like a blast of ice would just be blocked by Moriah's shadow constructs (which is his go to fighting style) on whom freezing should have no effect or tele swapped with Doppleman if required.
You're seriously underestimating Silver's ice. It's not just a "blast of ice" rather it's ice that is capable of freezing someone like Natsu completely shut and have an entire village of ice remain frozen in the middle of the desert. First off, I gotta ask why freezing wouldn't work in the first place and second of all, how is Doppelman actually going to stop it? I'll post the picture again but Silver's ice has great AoE with freezing the entire Sun Village until the observable horizon.
Trying to get close enough for physical contact with Moriah is not a good idea as it will just allow him to grab Bloodman's shadow, ragdoll him and cut the shadow apart instantly winning the fight. Bloodman has no knowledge let alone any counter for this.
No it won't because as far as we know, Moriah doesn't have CoA so all his attempts at rag-dolling Bloodman will be for naught as physical attacks are useless in his true form. All physical attacks will just go through him like nothing; such was the case for Gajeel as well. If anything, getting too close will be prove to be detrimental for you because Bloodman will just flood the battlefield if he feels too threatened which instantly wins the fight for him.
I will wait for you to discuss the potency behind these things which are basically just physical explosion and piercing attacks from what I can see. Doppleman or the bat swarm should be more than enough to handle these.
Why is that? What is even impressive about doppelman or the bat swarm? Taking punches from pre-timeskip base Luffy isn't impressive whatsoever and the bat-swarm is legit useless because of Bloodman's physiology. As we can see from Luffy's first interaction with Moriah, the bat-swarm attack him and bite him all over but if it was Bloodman, they would just phase through him, not affecting Bloodman at all.
As for the potency of the attacks, piercing Gajeel's iron body is a good feat because he scales far above all the Tartaros characters which includes Mard Geer and his peers such as the Celestial Spirit King. The CSK has very good feats himself such as slicing through the Algeria cube with ease.
And this goes for all the other curses Bloodman uses. Gajeel's durability is close to his AP which operates in the small country - country level tier of power so in order to hurt him considerably, you need power similar to that.
I have my reservations on whether Bloodman can use this specific curse as Memento Mori is not an innate ability of the Nine Demon Gates or Mard but was developed later to kill Zeref. Furthermore I find it unlikely that a guy who basicallyidentifies as "death"andwould not shut up about ithas access to or in fact even knowledge of something that as you said eliminates the very concepts of life and death. Not convinced on this one, chief.
Well then, let me attempt to convince you then comrade. First of all, I'm not really sure as to what why being referred to as "death" can't mean that he has access to Momento Mori because his moniker is the "Grim Reaper" which representative of the fact that he rules over the underworld. MM is an ability that was made for one specific reason which was to defeat Zeref, an immortal who doesn't follow the rules of life and death. His situation is completely different than that of Bloodman.
Second of all, we know he can because we have multiple statements of proof that Bloodman is capable of using all curses utilized by the 9 Demon Gates. We got the first one in their first interaction, the the second one right after, and the final nail in the coffin a little later on. Take a look at how the "all" in the statement by Gajeel was bolded, indicating even more that he truly can use all their attacks.
If this is the route you want to go down in regards to Momento Mori, it's not a good one.
Not to downplay just curious is there any specific implication of Demon Slayer powers providing hax resistance? I mean can't it just be Gray powering up and resisting it which there's precedence for in FT?
It was stated on panel.
It was Silver's power that allowed him to fend off Mard Geer's ultimate attack. Not only is it stated verbatim, but it's literally shown to happen on panel. The reason why Gray's devil curse grew considerably all over his body is because he absorbed Momento Mori.
Regardless shouldn't be a problem. If we look at how Memento Mori is applied, it's not as if Mard Geer snaps his fingers and his targets just cease to exist instantly, the process first has to envelop the targets in a mist:
Gallery
Which Moriah can easily escape using tele swap with Doppleman. Not sure how the mist paralyzed Natsu and Gray but it's probably poison based in which case Doppleman escapes too as poison would have no effect on it and it certainly got the speed. Also I doubt Memento Mori would have any effect on shadows or non living objects in general which are already "neither alive nor dead".
Tenchi Kaimei GG. Moriah becomes paralyzed and his doppelman is rendered useless. Bloodman erases him completely and wins the fight.
Moriah has incredible mental resistance. You need to be very mentally tough to take in shadows as otherwise you pass out plus even if you don't you need to be mentally tough enough to not lose your original personality:
Gallery
Normal pirates can withstand only 2 or 3, Luffy withstood a 100 without passing out and still retained his personality, Moriah did the same but to a staggering 1000 shadows in Shadow's Asgard.
Apart from this in OP resistance to stuff like mind control scales with overall power so all in all Moriah should be fine:
This is cool, I never thought Bloodman could just brainwash his way to victory anyways.
You should start realizing that anything that resembles a projectile and requires physical contact to work likeAoE lightning shaped spikeswill simply be blocked by shadows on whom such an ability is meaningless or tele swapped with Doppleman if Moriah is feeling really pressured. Stat amplification is cool but it's something Moriah can do too if required and this is not a particularly stat reliant fight either way.
His one doppleman isn't going to take in the entire attack nor have you shown that he could. Moriah has one doppleman and if Kyouka uses those sparks that are only used for pain amplification, how is one doppleman going to block dozens of them?
Also, I'm a little confused as to why you didn't try and counter the entire ability as a whole. Kyouka's sense deprivation doesn't require shocks like her pain amplification, nor is there proof that she needs to make physical contact alone. If anything, when we do see the ability start to take place, Kyouka isn't making physical contact with her at all. Honestly speaking, trying to spam "doppleman GG" to all my attacks is just lazy because doppleman isn't invincible, nor will it help against Tenchi Kaimei which is the only ability that can "GG" this fight if that makes sense.
Although if really required I guess Moriah can just trap Bloodman and his anti magic particles in Black Box.
And why can't Bloodman just flow right out considering he doesn't have a physical body and is made up up of intangible particles or just rip his way out like Luffy did?
I don't see why anti magic will have any effect and the life force sucking skulls would just be blocked and destroyed by Moriah's own bat swarm. The skulls have no stats or durability feats, just hax that won't work on shadows.
Hundreds of life-sucking skulls countered by only a few bat swarms? I don't know about that...
The best feat you presented but obviously overshadowed by the shadows' feat of crossing like half the planet in seconds. Moriah has the speed advantage here.
Probably, but the speed advantage isn't so great to where you have any counter to Tenchi Kaimei which is a one-shot ability.
Conclusion
I won't say much in my conclusion because I don't think much really needs to be said. I've made my opinion on this fight quite clear but to summarize it again, Moriah only has a punchers chance in this fight. Everything from Bloodman's logia-esque physiology, to abilities such as Momento Mori and Thorns that can grow on forever will be far too much for Moriah to handle. Bloodman's ace in the hole as I've brought up repeatedly is his Tenchi Kaimei which will render Moriah completely incapacitated and wide open for the kill, but also his zombies useless in a fight. It's an ability that Bloodman will go for right away which gives Moriah a window of maybe a minute maximum before he loses badly.
TLDR: Bloodman beats up Moriah badly.
Can't wait for what you come back with. Good luck!
Log in to comment