This isn't the current version of Obito so he doesn't have the Rinnegen.
VS.
Itachi Uchiha vs Obito Uchiha (Tobi)
Thank god you did not use the current Obito, he would stomp Itachi.
But yeah, this can go either way, Itachi can win if he finish this match fast, and Itachi has proven to have op genjutsu, Kakashi can't see Itachi eyes without losing, and yet he was able to keep up with Obito genjutsu. So I say it can go either way, Itachi need to finish the match fast and Obito need to wait until his chakra is almost gone.
So I say Itachi probaly losed, Obito was able to hold his own against killer bee, naruto and kakashi, he can last long enough where Itachi start coughing blood and is close to death.
@noone301994 said:
As far as this goes, since Itachi was dead, the "off limits" deal was now null and void. Obito is the type of person to not break his word unnecessarily, besides Itachi was still useful up till that point.
@noone301994 said:
If Obito could beat him why didn't he? Also why did he say "Now that Itachi is dead Konoha is no longer 'off limits.'"? I think that it's pretty evident that Obito was scared of Itachi because he knew he could beat him. To further support this statement I ask another question, if Obito knew all of those things about Itachi and knew that he was purposefully failing to capture Naruto, was actually a kind and nice person, and was only in Akatsuki to spy on them and keep them in check, then why wouldn't he kill Itachi? Clearly Itachi was in the way of him and his plans and he wasn't helping out the organization so why wouldn't he just kill him? Or send Pain to kill him? I think it was out of fear. He probably knew about all of their abilities and was prepared to betray them if they crossed any lines with the Leaf village.
He knew Itachi was dying first of all so it was only a matter of time until he keeled over. Secondly, Itachi made a deal with him, in turn for not touching the Leaf again he would help out in their mission. Itachi never ever broke that deal and did help in the hunt and sealing of the other tailed beasts. Going to the Leaf was all Itachi's idea. They weren't given the mission to get the 9 tails. Besides, capturing Naruto at that point was pointless as the other 8 hadn't been sealed yet. Might as well humor someone in turn for their power in keeping your goals. I will say this though, as soon as the 8 tails was captured and the 9 tails was the last one to capture, Itachi would be on his hit list as the Leaf would now be in his sights again.
I do believe that Obito "feared" Itachi however, not a paralyzing fear, but rather a healthy fear. He probably respected Itachi as much as Minato(which is a pretty high compliment from someone like Obito as that is his sensei after all). Why not use someone that powerful when they offered it? In a straight out fight, I do believe Obito would win. But in any other kind of fight, Itachi could and probably would win. Obito recognized this and avoided any kind of other fight. However Pain, can and would beat Itachi anytime anywhere. If Obito truly wanted Itachi dead, he would be dead. He would either do it himself or send Pain(who no matter what anyone says could own Itachi, Jiraya lost to him with no prior knowledge, same would happen to Itachi).
To people who believe I am underestimating Itachi I am not, Itachi is a power house no doubt. But, to say that Obito let him live simply because he feared him, I think is underestimating both Obito and his henchman Pain. Its clear to me that Obito let him live for his services, as soon as his usefulness was over, he would banish him from the Akatsuki(thus ending the deal) and then kill him to get him out of the way. It would be a fight to behold, but in the end the winner is without a doubt in my mind Obito.
@bluelantern1995 said:
As far as this goes, since Itachi was dead, the "off limits" deal was now null and void. Obito is the type of person to not break his word unnecessarily, besides Itachi was still useful up till that point.
So your big argument against this is, "Obito is honorable and a man of his word so that's why he didn't break the deal"? Really? He was one of the biggest liars and manipulators in the show. He pretended to be Madara and manipulated/used nearly every member of Akatsuki. Especially Nagato and Konan. He lied to them and used them in order to complete his own plans. He was going to make Nagato kill himself to revive Madara. He never even told Konan and Nagato about the Infinite Tsukuyomi plan.
He knew Itachi was dying first of all so it was only a matter of time until he keeled over. Secondly, Itachi made a deal with him, in turn for not touching the Leaf again he would help out in their mission. Itachi never ever broke that deal and did help in the hunt and sealing of the other tailed beasts. Going to the Leaf was all Itachi's idea. They weren't given the mission to get the 9 tails. Besides, capturing Naruto at that point was pointless as the other 8 hadn't been sealed yet. Might as well humor someone in turn for their power in keeping your goals. I will say this though, as soon as the 8 tails was captured and the 9 tails was the last one to capture, Itachi would be on his hit list as the Leaf would now be in his sights again.
Firstly, if he knew Itachi was dying and vulnerable then why not strike when he's weak? If it was that easy for him it would have sped a lot of things up. That doesn't help your argument. Secondly, there is no evidence that Itachi even did anything at all in Akatsuki. His assignment was to capture Kurama b/c he was from the Hidden Leaf and he never even seriously tried to. When he went to Konoha it was because it was right after the Third Hokage died and he wanted to make it clear to the elders (Danzo mostly) that he was still alive so that they couldn't kill Sasuke without consequences.
I do believe that Obito "feared" Itachi however, not a paralyzing fear, but rather a healthy fear. He probably respected Itachi as much as Minato(which is a pretty high compliment from someone like Obito as that is his sensei after all). Why not use someone that powerful when they offered it? In a straight out fight, I do believe Obito would win. But in any other kind of fight, Itachi could and probably would win. Obito recognized this and avoided any kind of other fight. However Pain, can and would beat Itachi anytime anywhere. If Obito truly wanted Itachi dead, he would be dead. He would either do it himself or send Pain(who no matter what anyone says could own Itachi, Jiraya lost to him with no prior knowledge, same would happen to Itachi).
I disagree that Pain would beat Itachi. Plus, in order for Obito to manipulate Pain into killing Itachi he'd have to have a good reason. He might have to tell Nagato about the truth about the Uchiha massacre and that could have possibly left more questions than answers for Pain and it might make him even more suspicious about Obito. Basically what I'm saying is that Obito would be opening a big can of worms if he involved Nagato in Obito's Itachi problem.
Also, it was clearly evident that in Edo-Itachi's skirmish with Edo-Nagato that Itachi had at least some knowledge about the Rinnegan beforehand:
Itachi should take this. The only advantage Obito holds over Itachi is intangibility. If he can grab him and suck Itachi in, it's game over. But can he?
Itachi was a master of genjutsu and constantly used it to win battles. Tsukuyomi being one of those. Remember what happened when Kakashi, who had one of Obito's eyes, was faced up against that jutsu? He went down quickly. Even if Obito has knowledge on that technique, he has no defense for it at all. I think Itachi has enough reaction speed to move around and use Tsukuyomi when Obito comes for an attack.
On a side note, Itachi also has Susanoo, something Obito doesn't have access to. Same goes for Amaterasu.
But the real reason I believe Itachi takes this fight actually isn't due to any sharingan technique. Itachi has a move that completely counters Obito's tactic to BFR him by using an exploding clone
He could wait until the moment Obito came in for the grab and then detonate the clone. Assuming Obito isn't fast enough to go intangible again, which could happen but I just can't picture it happening a majority, Itachi should win with this.
@noone301994 said:
@bluelantern1995 said:
As far as this goes, since Itachi was dead, the "off limits" deal was now null and void. Obito is the type of person to not break his word unnecessarily, besides Itachi was still useful up till that point.
So your big argument against this is, "Obito is honorable and a man of his word so that's why he didn't break the deal"? Really? He was one of the biggest liars and manipulators in the show. He pretended to be Madara and manipulated/used nearly every member of Akatsuki. Especially Nagato and Konan. He lied to them and used them in order to complete his own plans. He was going to make Nagato kill himself to revive Madara. He never even told Konan and Nagato about the Infinite Tsukuyomi plan.
He knew Itachi was dying first of all so it was only a matter of time until he keeled over. Secondly, Itachi made a deal with him, in turn for not touching the Leaf again he would help out in their mission. Itachi never ever broke that deal and did help in the hunt and sealing of the other tailed beasts. Going to the Leaf was all Itachi's idea. They weren't given the mission to get the 9 tails. Besides, capturing Naruto at that point was pointless as the other 8 hadn't been sealed yet. Might as well humor someone in turn for their power in keeping your goals. I will say this though, as soon as the 8 tails was captured and the 9 tails was the last one to capture, Itachi would be on his hit list as the Leaf would now be in his sights again.
Firstly, if he knew Itachi was dying and vulnerable then why not strike when he's weak? If it was that easy for him it would have sped a lot of things up. That doesn't help your argument. Secondly, there is no evidence that Itachi even did anything at all in Akatsuki. His assignment was to capture Kurama b/c he was from the Hidden Leaf and he never even seriously tried to. When he went to Konoha it was because it was right after the Third Hokage died and he wanted to make it clear to the elders (Danzo mostly) that he was still alive so that they couldn't kill Sasuke without consequences.
I do believe that Obito "feared" Itachi however, not a paralyzing fear, but rather a healthy fear. He probably respected Itachi as much as Minato(which is a pretty high compliment from someone like Obito as that is his sensei after all). Why not use someone that powerful when they offered it? In a straight out fight, I do believe Obito would win. But in any other kind of fight, Itachi could and probably would win. Obito recognized this and avoided any kind of other fight. However Pain, can and would beat Itachi anytime anywhere. If Obito truly wanted Itachi dead, he would be dead. He would either do it himself or send Pain(who no matter what anyone says could own Itachi, Jiraya lost to him with no prior knowledge, same would happen to Itachi).
I disagree that Pain would beat Itachi. Plus, in order for Obito to manipulate Pain into killing Itachi he'd have to have a good reason. He might have to tell Nagato about the truth about the Uchiha massacre and that could have possibly left more questions than answers for Pain and it might make him even more suspicious about Obito. Basically what I'm saying is that Obito would be opening a big can of worms if he involved Nagato in Obito's Itachi problem.
Also, it was clearly evident that in Edo-Itachi's skirmish with Edo-Nagato that Itachi had at least some knowledge about the Rinnegan beforehand:
As for the Off limits bit and being honorable, yes he is one of the biggest liers and manipulators of the show but he was never going to have Nagato bring back Madara. That was Madara's idea/plan. Not Obito's. Obito adopted the plan for himself, putting himself at its center calling Madara childish and ultimately rejecting him. That's why Madara thanked Naruto, as he recognized that he would have to fight Obito to make his plan a success. It is true however, that eventually Obito would have killed Nagato to get the eyes. That much is certain. If anything Kabuto's resurrecting Madara "for the plan" was Madara's lucky day as otherwise he'd never have had appeared again and stayed dead.
Obito despite being all you said still had a semblance of honor, a few things that prove this are his praising fallen allies and refusing to resurrect his fallen Akatsuki brethren(only to be forced to via blackmail by Kabuto). However if you want to look at it as Obito using Itachi for as long as he feasibly could, then that works in this situation as well. Obito can't use Itachi if he breaks the deal. Itachi is more valuable with him than against him(I'll take about this more in a latter paragraph).
Now onto your second paragraph. In issue 400 page 16 I think, Obito showed that he knew about Itachi's plans of having Sasuke kill him. This meant he only had to wait and then he could have another set of powerful eyes to serve him. If you don't remember it, it is on narutobase. Also the bit about knowing the disease is an issue later 401 page 15. He clearly knew about the disease and that it was killing him. It is unknown who was assigned to capture the 9 tails. If anyone, I think it would have been Kakazu, but we all know how that ended. Yes, Itachi went to the village to notify the others he was still alive, that is why I said all I said about Obito humored him, besides sooner or later Sasuke would be powerful enough to join their ranks.
And what is it about Itachi not helping? He helped seal the first couple tailed beasts, helped buy time during the Kazekage incident etc.
As I've said I believe Obito respected Itachi as a peer(no small feat I may add as he was equal to Madara pre-rinnegan) and greatly feared his opponent's intellect. Just like Madara was happy that he had his "trump" card when dealing with Obito during the 4th great ninja war, Obito was glad he had his "trump" card on Itachi all this information. It is unknown how long Obito knew all this about Itachi(I tend to think for a while but an argument could be made for less) but the fact is he did. He decided to wait for Itachi to die at Sasuke's feet and then tell Sasuke about the truth and hopefully gain a new member for the Akatsuki, which kinda happened(okay Sasuke didn't exactly join, they used each other which is close enough for both of their purposes).
As for Itachi vs Pain. I do believe Pain would win, I have seen no evidence of Itachi having prior knowledge of how the Rinnegan works, the scene where edo tensei Itachi, Naruto, and Killer Bee fought edo tensi Nagato, proved nothing on Itachi having prior knowledge. All he did was piece together(based on Nagato's actions) that they are visually linked something that Fukasaku also did(with the other paths admittedly not necessarily the summons though he never saw those) when he was with Jiraya during that fateful fight. Why Jiraya didn't use this to his advantage, we'll never know, but anyway... Also I was just re-reading through the issue with this and I think that was anime exclusive action, though it certainly is in character with Itachi, if you remember the panel and I missed it, then you can show me and I'll amend this.
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