Goku is strongest then beerus, that's just the facts

The manga says beerus thinks goku is godlike. Indicating he sees goku as his superior

The guy who goku beat was stated to transcend gods

Goku even says, he's the strongest foe which would include beerus

It's also confirmed jiren is stronger then beerus

Both by his own reactions

And various feats of him jobbing to belmod.

Whom was confirmed to have lost to jiren in a fight according to toyotaro and toppo

Jiren routinely has been stated as stronger then god lv

Beerus was scared of goku's SSJBKK

Broly also said stronger then beerus

10/10 thread! Violet cat downgrade accepted. No, a dog... a catdog!

not really

he mixed both anime and manga even though they are separate canon

@fidothedoggo: don't mix anime and manga they aren't canon to each other for dbs

@borutoisweak90: I am anime-only for DBS! Manga is different?

yes WAYY different its not the same canon

anime Goku/Jiren etc surpassed Beerus a long time ago.

manga Goku I have no idea. It has no consistency and makes no sense to me.

Beerus just effortlessly washed Vegeta in this arc who said his power is inferior to Beerus and the gods. Ultra ego also scales to Mui... Beerus would beat his ass again

All of that to be contradicted by Toyotaro himself.

Yay, now they can both be chain reaction causing street tiers!

this is dumb. Of course beerus is stronger than goku

Beerus still stronger than goku until further notice

Lot of cherry picking here but lemme see.

Panel 1)

Where does it say anything about Goku's superiority? UI is a technique of gods and Beerus is acknowledging Goku's mastery of it.

2)

Gods include Kaioshin as well. It was a Kai who defeated Moro the last time, after all. Boasts of these kinds doesn't mean much.

3)

Goku has sparred with Whis as well and if we assume Goku's line had no exceptions, that would mean Moro is stronger than Whis too, which we know for certain isn't the case. Besides, Beerus was going to step in and take care of Moro when things went south but was summoned by grand priest before he could, implying that he is still above Moro.

4)

This doesn't necessarily mean Jiren is stronger than Beerus. A mortal with god level power on a rival universe means universe 7's chance of survival being low, which in turn means Beerus himself getting erased. He has good reason to be scared. Beerus wasn't even reacting when Broly, who is on a similar power level, went rampage.

5)

Jobbing to Belmod? Did you see the full fight? Beerus held his own when all gods were teaming up on him. Beerus and Quitela were the last gods standing when the fight was interrupted (with Belmod faking injury). What it showed is that Beerus is one of the stronger gods.

6)

Jiren is stronger than Belmod. That gives credence to the various statements of him being above gods. But Beerus one of the stronger gods.

I can keep going but the point is, Beerus is a moving goalpost. Has always been. Remember when SSG put up a fight against him? At least in the manga continuity, that goalpost still seems to be moving. There's a reason why "strongest in the universe" wish in Granolah arc explicitly excluded gods.

Back when I was a Beerus lowballer I would've agreed with this.

Now it's clear that Goku still has yet to surpass him.

They will blatantly tell you when Goku surpasses Beerus. Until then Beerus is stronger

Bruh I lost brain cells reading this 🤣

Completely agree. Beerus and Belmod are close enough as to where Whis can get away with teasing him about Belmod being stronger than him. Beerus doesn't even refute or disagree seriously and just copes, saying he only lost once in arm wrestling, which is still a literal measure of raw strength.

And I don't give a single shit what the now confirmed more than ever non-canon Fanficga has to say about this, and in literal filler arcs at that. Until the Movies or Anime imply the entire narrative of the ToP has been retconned, Goku>>>Beerus.

I promise you they are going to move the goalpost again. And all they have to do is separate GoDs in power.

Also the premises to this argument posed in the OP and by others are kind of Fallacious.

Transcend GoDs of destruction does not mean all, Stronger than one GoD does not indicate all, One claim is worded as a rumor.

It doesn’t take much at all for a line such as “Beerus is stronger than I thought”

“Beerus ranks among the top of the GoDs”

“Belmond is a clown who barely qualifies for his role”

To really change the whole Narrative

@omega7373663:

I reall need you to explain to me how getting Jumped and nearly one shotting the people that jumped you, then proceeding to be the last of 2 in a battle royal with the biggest target on your head doesnt indicate blatant superiority.

There's a lot of evidence that points towards Goku's superiority then Beerus.

The last 3, Belmond was still in a fight, completely unharmed.

Give it up people, Goku is not definitively passing The God of Destruction tier until the end of series.

@mortein:

Belmond played dead the whole time.

Which never happened, We've only saw him casually dodging their attacks due to Ul nothing else but when it comes to raw power all the gods were shown to be comparable and we've literally saw that all of them got harmed during the fight and Beerus was no exception

This can be debunked with one scan.

Granola and gas wishes on the dragon balls to be the strongest in the universe. Giving them power beyond goku and vegeta. It's stated they became stronger than anyone besides the gods.

@omega7373663:

If a litteral gang of people are trying to jump you and you evade all of them Simultaneously that aline shows a massive skill/speed gap between you and your opponent.

Moreover as I said before Beerus was most likely facing the harshest opposition throughout the battle Royal and no other GoD was able to bring him down. That battle damage did accumulated over time from different GoDs and not one singular GoD and Beerus was still standing at the end.

Now Belmond was hardly a participant in the BR and elected to play dead throughout the fight. Aside from that he cheap shotted Sindra and did minor damage to the other GoDs. Mind you this was the only GoD Jiren was directly stated to have surpassed and his performance during the fight was basically doing minor damage to the other GoDs then proceeding to play dead.

As i said in my previous comment it isn’t hard to move the goalpoast or clarify Goku’s ranking to Beerus in the future. Storytelling wise imo Goku surpassing Beerus without a direct or unambiguous statement or fight is a complete waste of a character.

THIS!!! but the Goku fans are going to say he was referring to the Angels who have NEVER been called or referred to Gods

If a litteral gang of people are trying to jump you and you evade all of them Simultaneously that aline shows a massive skill/speed gap between you and your opponent.

Which was again only due to UI , Whis literally said it himself if it wasn't due to that technique then Beerus would've been able to dodge all of those attacks

Moreover as I said before Beerus was most likely facing the harshest opposition throughout the battle Royal and no other GoD was able to bring him down. That battle damage did accumulated over time from different GoDs and not one singular GoD and Beerus was still standing at the end.

While it's true that no one was able to put him down except it does not change the fact that Beerus got beaten up pretty badly which clearly shows that the difference in power between him and the others wasn't huge , in fact I'm pretty sure that the only reason Beerus was the last man standing was because of UI nothing else

I think it's time for people to wake up to reality, Beerus is fodder even current Gohan stomp him now

@omega7373663:

Using UI as an excuse to why he won isn't a good argument And an argument i see weirdly enough of. Claiming a character is superior due to an ability supports that the notion that a character is superior to another character Nonetheless. Saying Character X beat Character Y due to the ability doesn’t change the outcome nor the status of superiority. Moreover if we stand by the claim they are relative in power that would even further support the notion of Beerus’ superiority because not only does he match them in power and possibly outmatch them in Dura and endurance, that would mean his reflexes, speed, and combat speed exceed theirs as well.

With that said in junction to your second point battle royals in general are not a good way to gauge or compare power at all. For example Belmond was essential playing dead and letting the others wear each other out so he could win Easier. would Belmond have won? Most likely. Would there be context to hos victor? Absolutely. Point being Battle royals have so many extraneous variables such as jumping, outsmarting, strategizing, etc. That goes beyond an actual 1v1 matchup. Truth be told I think its best to wait for more direct matchups.

as I said before DBS is going to make it blatantly clear when Goku surpasses beerus woth either a statment, a fight against someone who matched Beerus, or Goku directly beating Beerus.

As it stands right now they kind of made it clear that power wise UE Vegeta is near equal to MUI. The same UE vegeta that was getting outright overpowered by Beerus. Im more incluned to believe Beerus over Goku until the series tells us straight to our faces without any need for interpretation

We saw him fighting in the beginning of the fight, at some moments all the other GoDs at the same time, we saw him hurting other GoDs, we saw him tanking attacks from other GoDs. Then we saw him playing dead at the very end of the fight, waiting for Beerus and Quintela to damage each other, so he can snatch a victory.

We haven't seen what he was doing during the middle part of the tournament.

These are the facts.

Furthermore, Vegeta who is on par with Goku as eternal rivals in the series of Dragon Ball has outright stated inferiority to Beerus.

He should be but he isn't because of recton probably

You need to learn proper English, “that’s just the facts.”

Beerus would destroy UI Goku, UE Vegeta, Gas, Granola, Cell Max, Broly, LB Jiren, Beast Gohan, Black Frieza on his own while they work together.

Anime is not manga lmao

All Beerus has is hype

He hasn't done anything noteworthy for the past 6 or 7 years now

Lol

lmfao, lowkey fax

We don't know how strong Black Frieza is tbh. For all we know he could be on the same level as Beerus

Black Frieza would get one-tapped by Beerus

The ambiguity is Favoring Beerus heavily, especially if Vegeta is on a Tier with Goku and He admits he's under Beerus. As well as Beerus not being worried about Black Frieza even though he's a One shot difference above Goku and Vegeta.

Anime yeah sure Broly, Jiren, Goku, and Gogeta are all Spitting on Beerus til the retcons comes in. There's no debating that

This.

Seriously, Beerus is only within the league of his fellow Destroyers, and even Jiren is factually stated to be above that by multiple sources.

Prime MUI Goku, aka Moro Arc MUI Goku, has already defeated beings who are superior to Destroyers. The notion of Beerus even lasting a minute against Goku is laughable.

Beerus' best feat of holding his own against his fellow Destroyers is due to his own use of Ultra Instinct, which even UI Omen Goku surpassed because Beerus admitted outright that Goku managed to perform a high level of UI before him.

Beerus would suffer the exact same fate against Black Frieza. Black Frieza one-tapped TUI/UI Omen Goku, who demonstrated to have superior levels of Ultra Instinct compared to Beerus as per the previous paragraph. If Goku couldn't even react to that, Beerus with an inferior level of UI definitely cannot react to it either.

Considering that UI Goku's relative to Vegeta who is already fodder to Beerus, I find that hard to believe. This is likely a result of Toriyama moving the goalpost of Beerus's power again and again so that he can be something Goku and Vegeta strive to surpass.

Why? We have nothing suggesting that

@brogokudestroys: Toryiama never commented about Beerus since 2016, in which he said that SSB Goku and Vegeta is not superior to Beerus at that moment (right before the Black Arc), which makes sense at the time because Beerus tooled around MSSB Vegeta after the Black Arc.

The only source that people use to argue that Beerus is a 'moving goalpost', from my knowledge, is the Toyotoro interview, which has been debunked.

UI Goku's relative to Vegeta who is already fodder to Beerus

Vegeta is not relative to UI Omen Goku. Vegeta admitted himself that he is TUI Goku's clear inferior, and the feats more than justify it. There are external sources that said that literally the only difference between UI Omen Goku and TUI Goku is that Goku can use the power of UI Omen while being able to be in his emotions, so both forms are basically the same thing.