most powerful water bender so far? (Avatar)

@wyaneb1 said:

😂😂😂😂😂

Amon and second place being Ming Hua, given how the writers kept needing to amp things up to ridiculous, lore-breaking levels.

If we're limiting things to AtLA, a previous comment had it right.

Toph and Azula were the two greatest prodigies of their elements in the show with no one coming close to their full potential, Azula being a triumph of firebending eugenics and Toph learning from the source animal of earth bending, having the perfect disability for learning her element, and possessing a freakish natural talent.

Aang is implied to be the same, though there are no airbenders to compare him to, hence the show's name.

Waterbending is a bit trickier: Katara, Huu, Pakku, and Roku's master are all contenders. We had the most exposure to Katara and she grew by far the most, but she was a self-made prodigy and not at all a natural talent like Toph or Azula, which always to me seemed another level to she and Zuko's mutual understanding. Huu was in a level and trade of his own but didn't do much base waterbending outside of that, Pakku I would argue was never outpaced by Katara in the show but was likely inferior to her in terms of potential, and the two single greatest instances of non-AS waterbending in the original show were done in Roku's flashback by Roku and his master. Based off of singular feats, I have to go with Roku's master, but based on diversity of feats shown and potential I'll give it to Katara, since it seems silly to give it to a guy we got one scene of.

@anderioan: There’s no reason to believe Katara wasn’t naturally talented. Azula and Toph just received high level training at earlier ages.

@kataraaaa: That's one of the better parts of Katara's character. She had the tenacity and determination to improve as much as she did. Toph was 2 years younger than Katara when she joined the gaang, had had far less formal instruction than Katara by that point and was still much more powerful in her element than Katara was in hers. Earlier on in the series Aang drove Katara into an insecure rage when he proved a far more naturally talented waterbender than her. Aang's relative disinterest in Waterbending (that he would never really grow out of throughout his life) and Katara's fierce determination to fulfill her potential enabled her to outstrip him during their weeks of study under Pakku, who said as much when the narrative needed the audience to understand that Katara was now the superior waterbender of the main cast.

@anderioan said:

That's one of the better parts of her character. She had the tenacity and determination to improve as much as she did.

Sure, but that doesn't mean she wasn't naturally talented. Pakku had several students learning under him before Katara ever met him. She surpassed them all extremely quickly. Could break icebergs and do specific maneuvers with no actual training, and is probably the quickest learner in the show that we know of.

Toph was 2 years younger than Katara when she joined the gaang, had had far less formal instruction than Katara by that point

This isn't true, Toph had been getting earthbending training via the badgermoles since she was 5 years old. That's 7 years of formal earthbending training, and while Master Yu isn't Pakku, he was still considered a top trainer, hired by a family of high prestige. So I'm sure that didn't hurt.

and was still much more powerful in her element than Katara was in hers.

She wasn't. They were comparably as good as each other throughout the entire run, unless you literally mean raw power. In which the gap isn't nearly as big as you're thinking, and Katara has better scale than Azula, so it doesn't really serve your argument.

Earlier on in the series Aang drove Katara into an insecure rage when he proved a far more naturally talented waterbender than her. Aang's relative disinterest in Waterbending (that he would never really grow out of throughout his life) and Katara's fierce determination to fulfill her potential enabled her to outstrip him during their weeks of study under Pakku, who said as much when the narrative needed the audience to understand that Katara was now the superior waterbender of the main cast.

Aang was the youngest airbending master in history, an airbending prodigy, and just in general far more advanced with his knowledge of the bending arts than Katara was at the time. Surely some of his knowledge would've rubbed off on waterbending. Which is why he was better than an untrained Katara and picked up on it so quickly. It isn't really saying much, Aang picked up on firebending just as well as he did water for the same reason.

I personally don’t count the badger moles as formal training. They don’t explain anything and Toph couldn’t actually see the act of earthbending to copy off of.

She straight learned through imitation with a disability making things harder. That is not formal. That is as informal as it gets.

Her actual formal trainer was the Earthbending teacher her parents hired, who actually instructed her in the maneuvers to perform and how to do them. Those were the most bottom level basics you could get in earthbending.

So, I am in full agreement with @anderioan in Toph not having any advanced level formal training.

The show explains it for you. Toph and the badgermoles were able to bond since they shared blindness. She learned earthbending by mimicking their movements and treating earthbending as an extension of her senses. If that doesn't make any logical sense in theory fine, but that's how it worked in the show.

Never said it made no sense or that she didn’t learn from the badger moles. I said it doesn’t count as formal training in my eyes.

She got no instruction and was not taught any actual bending maneuvers. Toph mimicked them, but that was done completely of her own deductive skills and observations.

It’s the equivalent of when a someone learns to draw by copying other art. They learn shapes, perspective, shading, and detailing through observation. That is very informal and Toph’s experience is the same thing.

Katara to me.

In terms of raw power, excluding amps, Yakone and his sons lie at the top. Even if we're just ranking the waterbenders as overall combatants, no unamped waterbender matches up to Yakone's family so long as bloodbending's allowed.

If we're rating pure waterbenders (so excluding subs), and in terms of overall combative prowess specifically rather than just power and scale, then I'd place Post-Convergence Unalaq at the top, followed closely by Korra and Katara. (Using their comic variants, not hypothetical primes.)