THIS A REVIEW AND DISCUSSION THREAD OF ANY MEDIA ( SOCIAL MEDIA POSTS, ONLINE VIDEOS, SITE/WEB DISCUSSIONS) RELATED TO THE AVATAR (THE LAST AIRBENDER/ LEGEND OF KORRA) FRANCHISE.
AVATAR: (THE LAST AIRBENDER/LEGEND OF KORRA) MEDIA REVIEW
@chloros: @vengefulshot: @rijehu: @byondeon: @masma94: @bigdreamer48:@aystarr: @anthp2000: @emmafrostxmen: @quinlan58: @crater_maker: @indomitableregal: @captain_narlowe: @king-ragnar: @stefano: @mialthefencer: @incursion2:@psi-bite234:@freestyler1999::@co-boss:@cpt_nice: @marvelfan1992: @viking1205: @thekeys: @mrgetmebodied: @thebuckaronatr: @shepardoakenprime: @arcus1: @darthfallax:
dratini1331@joewell@strictlyanime@nighthunder@rbt
@rogueshadow@norrinboltagonprime21@pr0metheus@sophia89@princearagorn1@ssj_god@lvenger
@princearagorn1@homicidalmaniac@ssj_god
@redbird3rdboywonder@pierpat@knightofzero
@dccomicsrule2011@lunacyde@sophia89@@geekryan @emmafrostxmen @norrinboltagonprime21@pr0metheus@sophia89@princearagorn1@lvenger
@funsiized@ssj_god@jmarshmallow
@dccomicsrule2011@lunacyde@etheral_dreams
@killerwasp@kidphillip@aressword@wbr17@korraspirit@jr_avatarexpert@dextersinister@thunderbolt30@nighthunder@metaljimmor@spartankobe@jacthripper@primebonnick@gizmorino@rijehu@myerlanski@koays@useyourname@stormdriven@hypnosis@pirateking@mitcheii@deranged_midget@abyssdarkfire@hatemalingsia@arv993@dreadpool10@batking200@sirneko@loklegends@kingvenus@marvelfan1992@martinceld@therapist1
@thenewbluebeetle007@darkdefender@hulkage@linark@just_banter@soduh2@justicethorpsylocke
@lukehero@xxxcarzellxxx@pierpat@zukolicious@jrazor@theavatarguruu@pooty@joewell
@major_hellstorm@viren809@shepardoakenprime@blacklegraph@anthp2000
@amendment50: @king22@gothamciti:@tarutaru@kigretheviking @thebuckaronatr @crimson-feather @shepardoakenprime @jdogg @gunchar1@deathhero61@gothamciti@justicethorpsylocke itachus17@major_hellstrom@captain_narlowe
If it isn't obvious yet, I made this because of the versus series videos on YouTube and how some battles/aspects can be arbitrary at times.
I'm going to be respectful as much as I can but some battles there don't take feats into account and are not justified at all. And there is a clear bias for LOK characters and not to mention the radiant azula hate ( not actually hate lol but lowballing). I got tired of people (mostly novices) referring me to the videos as if I'm just supposed to take it as an official statement.
So I'm asking here, do you guys think maybe its only me and the videos are detailed/calculated and has best outcome or not?
Are you referring to Bandele's analyses?
Which ones? The ones from the Avatar channel, or the Antoine Bandele ones?
Both but mostly the Antonie ones, the A.C ones are not much yet.
@aystarr: Okay, then. I like hearing what he has to say, and although I don't always agree with him, hearing other people's analysis helps me with my own analysis, so I'd say I enjoy it.
He clearly puts in effort into these videos, so that's perfectly appreciated from a fellow fan. I can't say I agree with most of what he is actually saying, though.
I think the forums here can be a lot more detailed, and reach more accurate conclusions as well - if you are to discuss with people who know what they're talking about, that is. Just because the YT platform equates to more popularity than CV, it doesn't mean much.
And because you brought up this issue, if someone dared refer his videos to me as factual I'd probably just laugh at them, I'm not going to lie. And I don't mean that with any disrespect, but I've worked my arse off forming and then supporting my own views for a while now, and I feel just as strongly about them as anyone.
He clearly puts in effort into these videos, so that's perfectly appreciated from a fellow fan. I can't say I agree with most of what he is actually saying, though.
I think the forums here can be a lot more detailed, and reach more accurate conclusions as well - if you are to discuss with people who know what they're talking about, that is. Just because the YT platform equates to more popularity than CV, it doesn't mean much.
And because you brought up this issue, if someone dared refer his videos to me as factual I'd probably just laugh at them, I'm not going to lie. And I don't mean that with any disrespect, but I've worked my arse off forming and then supporting my own views for a while now, and I feel just as strongly about them as anyone.
@aystarr: I appreciate the effort whoever puts into making those videos, but I more often than not, I disagree with the conclusions that have been brought their battles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw6JbKrkZNY&list=PLDFq63aBi3_z05TWHnzpjzWanqTtB2AnA
This is a playlist that has all of the 1 vs. 1 hypothetical battles he comes up with (or what people request). He analyzes their strengths and who has which edges, and then comes up with what he thinks would be the most likely verdict. If you're too lazy to watch, I can give you a brief summary of most of them, but his analysis (although I don't always agree), is actually pretty interesting, so take a look if you're interested.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mswhXlNL9h0&list=PLDFq63aBi3_wzyw2xa4iY02gCHtzanfrK
He is also in the process of making a tier list. This is not complete yet and is in progress. Skip to the end to see who he out where, these are a lot less interesting imho.
@bigdreamer48: Hmm. Okay. I might give it a look. Thanks.
I really like antonie's videos but I don't necessarily see a clear bias to one side or the other. He gives good reasoning for his positions as well. I try not to say too many people are bias cause that seem like what happens most of the time someone does a versus battle is that if someone disagrees they say bias. I for one sometimes need to stop myself from saying it too. The only time I might say it if someone insults the show of a character they are doing a versus battle discussion on as a means to say who wins.
I really like antonie's videos but I don't necessarily see a clear bias to one side or the other. He gives good reasoning for his positions as well. I try not to say too many people are bias cause that seem like what happens most of the time someone does a versus battle is that if someone disagrees they say bias. I for one sometimes need to stop myself from saying it too. The only time I might say it if someone insults the show of a character they are doing a versus battle discussion on as a means to say who wins.
He clearly puts in effort into these videos, so that's perfectly appreciated from a fellow fan. I can't say I agree with most of what he is actually saying, though.
I think the forums here can be a lot more detailed, and reach more accurate conclusions as well - if you are to discuss with people who know what they're talking about, that is. Just because the YT platform equates to more popularity than CV, it doesn't mean much.
And because you brought up this issue, if someone dared refer his videos to me as factual I'd probably just laugh at them, I'm not going to lie. And I don't mean that with any disrespect, but I've worked my arse off forming and then supporting my own views for a while now, and I feel just as strongly about them as anyone.
Yeah, I know he puts a lot of work and although I didn't necessarily agree with what he said, I usually admired his breakdown but that was years ago and I will admit I wasn't as knowledgeable as I am now, so I decided to watch it again and if I'm being honest I wasn't as pleased when I saw some conclusions he Made and read some of his comments . Ohh, AND THERE IS A VERY CLEAR AND STRONG BIAS! .
Some instances:
- in the toph vs kuvira match, he said the reason why it's going to be inconclusive was because he doesn't know if toph could match the tenacity of kuvira. although he gave a good reason about why kuvira would struggle with toph seismic sense, him saying toph couldn't match kuvira's tenacity as if toph herself wasn't tenacious also and as if kuvira's tenacity was going to stop the fact that she'll get beaten if she was meant to was very frustrating , it was very obvious he didn't want her(kuvira) to lose.
- Also In the Toph vs kuvira match, when it reached the bending aspect, he fleshed out kuvira's bending style and considered her environmental attacks and her method of finding openings but he Was ambiguous when it came to toph's style and did not even use how she factors her power and control Into battles and dismissed most of her strongholds also, and although toph won that round( which was obvious), the gap he gave was clearly smaller than the actual gap and the overall explanation was iffy.
-In the Amon vs katara match, when it reached the bending aspect, (I'm still not sure if he considers their bending prowess in general or just against the person they're fighting with ) if it's in general, then he did not consider all of her abilities, they're also some issues in the tactical aspect but I don't really have much problem with that battle even if I personally think it's inconclusive because of lack of information.
- in the kuvira vs azula match, when he couldn't find any counter for azula's constant attacks against kuvira if the battle had continued, he proceeded to rely on the fact that azula would go crazy when the battle is prolonged, literally taking the point of her insanity out of context and making her to seem like a different character entirely, the bias was definitely there and considering how his channel is based on avatar franchise along with others, I would say he wasn't just some random one timer who doesn't have an in-depth knowledge and clearly knew what he was doing when he said that for azula.
- he repeated this same thing in the zaheer vs azula battle
The one that pissed me off the most was him giving zaheer the physical abilities advantage and when someone in the comments talked about azula's consistency against stalling team avatar and defeating Tylee and Suki, he proceeded to call them PIS!!. what made it worse for me was that this was in a battle against zaheer who has the most PIS if we're considering it. He lowballed azula, dismissed all her feats throughout that entire match and made sure she didnt win .
He was ready to give zaheer skills he never showcased like dodging multiple lightning strikes while he didn't give azula the ability to dodge airblasts which she has showcased multiple times against aang even without her bending, he favors lok villains over any other characters, this can be seen even when he's not making battle related content.
As for people referring me, I just stop having the conversation with them but what Is so annoying and frustrating is that almost everyone seems to think that those videos are fact and can't think for themselves anymore and allow themeselves to make their own opinions, what makes it worse is that the videos are misleading and not always true, I remember someone telling me that kuvira would stomp team avatar because azula has kept up with team avatar and based on Anton's video, she's stronger so she wins them.
As for people referring me, I just stop having the conversation with them but what Is so annoying and frustrating is that almost everyone seems to think that those videos are fact and can't think for themselves anymore and allow themeselves to make their own opinions,
This is because YT a stronger platform, and he knows how to utilise it. If people from here or from Reddit - I think we go into higher detail here combat/battle forum wise, but on Reddit, I've seen a lot more consistency when it comes to in depth discussions on the lore - were uploading videos about this universe, and knew how to technically draw people into watching them, I'm sure they'd be comparably popular.
People sometimes mistake popularity for fact. Everyone should form their own views on any matter; drawing elements from arguments you agree with from an individual you respect and find credible is far from wrong. Even referring to other arguments in quote is not wrong, when you can defend them yourself. What's wrong is passing them off as fact.
As for his opinions and why the look bizarre to you (and to me, and many people), I'm not sure I want to attribute that to bias. You would be surprised at the views people who haven't put much detailed thought into the combat aspect of such shows would have. Here, we discuss things with strictly logical points, consistency, breakdowns, multiple resources (interviews, guidebooks etc.) and we practically debate everything to death, to the point where everyone will inevitably form a strong opinion at some point. I don't think Bandele is quite on that mindset. Simply more familiar with ranking characters' abilities than the average viewer.
As for his opinions and why the look bizarre to you (and to me, and many people), I'm not sure I want to attribute that to bias.
That's the thing, if it was based on opinion or his Personal ranking , I wouldn't see it as much of a problem, everyone has different opinions, that's why I said I don't really have any issue with the amon vs katara battle because even if I don't agree, he made points using what we know of them and factored their strengths and weaknesses, this along with the mako Vs bolin Battle are the best IMO, even if I dont agree with Some points in that also , even the toph vs kuvira that I complained about earlier doesn't give me issues because the conclusion was based on his opinion. However, dismissing feats in battle (calling azula physicals and almost everything she's ever done pis) and making outright false assumptions on a character (she's going to go crazy after she fights for a while) will definitely come off as bias against that character, it doesn't become an opinion anymore, it's just trolling . And if you read his comments you'll definitely see It.
Lol, Even if it looks like it, I swear I don't hate him and I actually find his content interesting, I just dislike how he didn't make opinions or points with solid foundation and dismissed Undebatable known facts with his opinions instead of even trying to provide reasonable counters When people called him out on it.
@chloros: Lol, Ikr!!!, I love toph but it's clear they did it because they didn't want to piss off the overrated and toxic toph Stans.
Yeah, literally everyone in the comments was like "I didn't even need to watch the video. Obviously Toph wins, and Korra sucks."
If people from here or from Reddit - I think we go into higher detail here combat/battle forum wise, but on Reddit, I've seen a lot more consistency when it comes to in depth discussions on the lore - were uploading videos about this universe, and knew how to technically draw people into watching them, I'm sure they'd be comparably popular.
Yeah, I'm part of a sub-reddit that strictly focuses on hypothetical Avatar Battles. It got really popular over the last few weeks, although that kind of made it worse b/c there are now a lot of new and inexperienced fans that don't really analyze anything. Despite that, I think the format works really well, and the moderator, while generally pretty chill, is actually really consistent.
@bigdreamer48: about reddit, Idk if it's me but I find it worse than CV, I wanted to Join some years back but the users and opinions were just too eeky for me, although it was the same for CV few years ago also, around 2014/2015, IDK if it has changed and is now better but that time it had undertones of sexism/misogyny, homophobia and sometimes racism, all of which I don't stand for, that's why I said I wasn't going to be re-opening an account in our conversation. I also hate the layout ngl.
@aystarr: I'm kind of new to both so I can't say for sure, but I think it's better now. The only problem is, with all the new fans, the quality of that subreddit went down, but before that happened, I have to say that I liked it better than CV. I have seen no homophobia or racism that I can think of on that specific subreddit, which I am entirely against as well. The layout is not as pretty though I have to admit. One thing I don't like about reddit is how if people disagree with you, they just downvote you, which I think is very rude unless someone is trolling.
@geekryan: @mrgetmebodied: @indomitableregal: @viking1205: @chloros:
@bigdreamer48: about reddit, Idk if it's me but I find it worse than CV, I wanted to Join some years back but the users and opinions were just too eeky for me, although it was the same for CV few years ago also, around 2014/2015, IDK if it has changed and is now better but that time it had undertones of sexism/misogyny, homophobia and sometimes racism, all of which I don't stand for, that's why I said I wasn't going to be re-opening an account in our conversation. I also hate the layout ngl.
@aystarr: I'm kind of new to both so I can't say for sure, but I think it's better now. The only problem is, with all the new fans, the quality of that subreddit went down, but before that happened, I have to say that I liked it better than CV. I have seen no homophobia or racism that I can think of on that specific subreddit, which I am entirely against as well. The layout is not as pretty though I have to admit. One thing I don't like about reddit is how if people disagree with you, they just downvote you, which I think is very rude unless someone is trolling.
Is anyone else on reddit?.
@aystarr: I'm on reddit, but I visit it very very rarely though.
@aystarr: Nope. I've only been on Reddit a few times.
@viking1205: @chloros: @indomitableregal: Have you guys seen anything similar to what I said about it?!.
@aystarr: Honestly haven't spent enough time on Reddit to notice.
OK so I've decided to expand what this thread covers and I'm also thinking about making it official for this site (I don't think there's one already). Thoughts on that?, and anyone who has a better idea for the Title should tell me.
@chloros: @vengefulshot: @rijehu: @byondeon: @masma94: @bigdreamer48:@aystarr: @anthp2000: @emmafrostxmen: @quinlan58: @crater_maker: @indomitableregal: @captain_narlowe: @king-ragnar: @stefano: @mialthefencer: @incursion2:@psi-bite234:@freestyler1999::@co-boss:@cpt_nice: @marvelfan1992: @viking1205: @thekeys: @mrgetmebodied: @thebuckaronatr: @shepardoakenprime: @arcus1: @darthfallax:
dratini1331@joewell@strictlyanime@nighthunder@rbt
@rogueshadow@norrinboltagonprime21@pr0metheus@sophia89@princearagorn1@ssj_god@lvenger
@princearagorn1@homicidalmaniac@ssj_god
@redbird3rdboywonder@pierpat@knightofzero
@dccomicsrule2011@lunacyde@sophia89@@geekryan @emmafrostxmen @norrinboltagonprime21@pr0metheus@sophia89@princearagorn1@lvenger
@funsiized@ssj_god@jmarshmallow
@dccomicsrule2011@lunacyde@etheral_dreams
@killerwasp@kidphillip@aressword@wbr17@korraspirit@jr_avatarexpert@dextersinister@thunderbolt30@nighthunder@metaljimmor@spartankobe@jacthripper@primebonnick@gizmorino@rijehu@myerlanski@koays@useyourname@stormdriven@hypnosis@pirateking@mitcheii@deranged_midget@abyssdarkfire@hatemalingsia@arv993@dreadpool10@batking200@sirneko@loklegends@kingvenus@marvelfan1992@martinceld@therapist1
@thenewbluebeetle007@darkdefender@hulkage@linark@just_banter@soduh2@justicethorpsylocke
@lukehero@xxxcarzellxxx@pierpat@zukolicious@jrazor@theavatarguruu@pooty@joewell
@major_hellstorm@viren809@shepardoakenprime@blacklegraph@anthp2000
@amendment50: @king22@gothamciti:@tarutaru@kigretheviking @thebuckaronatr @crimson-feather @shepardoakenprime @jdogg @gunchar1@deathhero61@gothamciti@justicethorpsylocke itachus17@major_hellstrom@captain_narlowe
I... don't really know what to say about this:
Is that Dan.Co ?
I used to watch him before but that was for dc/marvel related stuff, didn't know he made avatar battles too.
This is his first one actually. I watch him and while I don't always agree, he actually seem better than most youtubers.
I do think he get things right and wrong, but he is fair when judging (based on his analyses...). Except maybe that I think he definitely seem to have a Spiderman bias. And a bias for some other characters over others.
I... don't really know what to say about this:
Is that Dan.Co ?
I used to watch him before but that was for dc/marvel related stuff, didn't know he made avatar battles too.
This is his first one actually. I watch him and while I don't always agree, he actually seem better than most youtubers.
I do think he get things right and wrong, but he is fair when judging (based on his analyses...). Except maybe that I think he definitely seem to have a Spiderman bias. And a bias for some other characters over others.
Nah, you wanna see his bias, watch any of his videos with MCU Cap or Thor lol.
@indomitableregal: His bias is heavily in favor of DCEU Superman.. He has Superman beat MCU Thor... Never would happen.
@byondeon: You sure? Could've sworn he had it the other way around.
@byondeon: You sure? Could've sworn he had it the other way around.
He hates MCU Thor...
@byondeon: You sure? Could've sworn he had it the other way around.
He hates MCU Thor...
?? He loves MCU Thor. He's literally said he loves him lol.
@byondeon: You sure? Could've sworn he had it the other way around.
He hates MCU Thor...
?? He loves MCU Thor. He's literally said he loves him lol.
You can love a character but still hate him...
@byondeon: You sure? Could've sworn he had it the other way around.
He hates MCU Thor...
?? He loves MCU Thor. He's literally said he loves him lol.
You can love a character but still hate him...
...We're done here. XD
@byondeon: You sure? Could've sworn he had it the other way around.
He hates MCU Thor...
?? He loves MCU Thor. He's literally said he loves him lol.
You can love a character but still hate him...
...We're done here. XD
Have a nice day...
THOUGHTS?
@chloros: @vengefulshot: @rijehu: @byondeon: @masma94: @bigdreamer48:@aystarr: @anthp2000: @emmafrostxmen: @quinlan58: @crater_maker: @indomitableregal: @captain_narlowe: @king-ragnar: @stefano: @mialthefencer: @incursion2:@psi-bite234:@freestyler1999::@co-boss:@cpt_nice: @marvelfan1992: @viking1205: @thekeys: @mrgetmebodied: @thebuckaronatr: @shepardoakenprime: @arcus1: @darthfallax:
dratini1331@joewell@strictlyanime@nighthunder@rbt
@rogueshadow@norrinboltagonprime21@pr0metheus@sophia89@princearagorn1@ssj_god@lvenger
@princearagorn1@homicidalmaniac@ssj_god
@redbird3rdboywonder@pierpat@knightofzero
@dccomicsrule2011@lunacyde@sophia89@@geekryan @emmafrostxmen @norrinboltagonprime21@pr0metheus@sophia89@princearagorn1@lvenger
@funsiized@ssj_god@jmarshmallow
@dccomicsrule2011@lunacyde@etheral_dreams
@killerwasp@kidphillip@aressword@wbr17@korraspirit@jr_avatarexpert@dextersinister@thunderbolt30@nighthunder@metaljimmor@spartankobe@jacthripper@primebonnick@gizmorino@rijehu@myerlanski@koays@useyourname@stormdriven@hypnosis@pirateking@mitcheii@deranged_midget@abyssdarkfire@hatemalingsia@arv993@dreadpool10@batking200@sirneko@loklegends@kingvenus@marvelfan1992@martinceld@therapist1
@thenewbluebeetle007@darkdefender@hulkage@linark@just_banter@soduh2@justicethorpsylocke
@lukehero@xxxcarzellxxx@pierpat@zukolicious@jrazor@theavatarguruu@pooty@joewell
@major_hellstorm@viren809@shepardoakenprime@blacklegraph@anthp2000
@amendment50: @king22@gothamciti:@tarutaru@kigretheviking @thebuckaronatr @crimson-feather @shepardoakenprime @jdogg @gunchar1@deathhero61@gothamciti@justicethorpsylocke itachus17@major_hellstrom@captain_narlowe
I... don't really know what to say about this:
Yeah, I don't see aang taking a win without the avatar state but I think he's more likely to activate it than not.
The thing with this is though, I can see Aang winning without the AS, but I would give Spider Man the majority based on the opponent he has actually fought.
In AS though I think that Aang would take a majority, though I wouldn't count Spider Man out.
It's honestly a weird match-up imo, and honestly hope he does more Avatar in the future because I feel like he seem to actually get most characters fairly accurate.
@aystarr: I actually agree with that one more than I do most, and I agree with the overall verdict for the most part, but that location kind of hindered Katara from making her most powerful moves, which is what gives her the advantage against Zuko in other hypothetical fights. I couldmake a case for Zuko in that specific location, but I do agree that Katara's resourcefulness and overall power and skill with her bending nullifies his physical advantage, which is his main advantage, and would secure the win more often than not. I'm glad he didn't just say, "Well, Katara beat Azula, and Zuko is under her, so obviously Katara wins", (like most people in the comments did) and acknowledged Zuko's skills too, but I think that it was pretty clear who the victor was going to end up being. I hope he makes his videos more structured like this next time, because the Toph vs. Kuvira, Azula vs. Zaheer, and Iroh vs. Ozai ones seemed quite biased.
His next on is gonna be Zaheer vs. Kuvira, so I'm wondering how that's going to turn out.
@aystarr: I actually agree with that one more than I do most, and I agree with the overall verdict for the most part, but that location kind of hindered Katara from making her most powerful moves, which is what gives her the advantage against Zuko in other hypothetical fights. I couldmake a case for Zuko in that specific location, but I do agree that Katara's resourcefulness and overall power and skill with her bending nullifies his physical advantage, which is his main advantage, and would secure the win more often than not. I'm glad he didn't just say, "Well, Katara beat Azula, and Zuko is under her, so obviously Katara wins", (like most people in the comments did) and acknowledged Zuko's skills too, but I think that it was pretty clear who the victor was going to end up being. I hope he makes his videos more structured like this next time, because the Toph vs. Kuvira, Azula vs. Zaheer, and Iroh vs. Ozai ones seemed quite biased.
His next on is gonna be Zaheer vs. Kuvira, so I'm wondering how that's going to turn out.
Yeah, it was Kinda OK, I agree with the valuing Zuko highly tho, IMO a 7/10 instead of 6/10 Would be fairer.
They were biased, especially the azula ones. The others came down to most valued Fighting styles or most valued aspect of combat which is Ok, he did state that it's his opinion but the azula ones are a no no.
@aystarr: Yeah. He also said that Zuko is his favorite character, and that he doesn't like Katara's power arc, so there may have been a little bias there too. But any version of Azula, other than maybe cray cray Azula should beat Zaheer for a majority. He, while an incredible villain and smart fighter, is overrated sometimes.
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