MCU Killmonger or Nolan Bane - Best villain?

Bane.

Killmonger because Bane turn out to be a non issue. Talia was the real villian while Bane was the muscle.

Hard choice, going with Killmonger.

Killmonger got to complete the movie.

Kilmonger. He was a sympathetic villain. You wanted to see him lose, because his respect for life was non-existent, but you sympathized with him for how he became who he was. One of the only CBM villains to do that. Maybe the only one.

Draw.

Hmm Bane

Erik is one of the top three or four CBM villains. Bane was decent, but was just a minion in a much larger scheme.

really?

Killmonger imo.

@rustlingjimmy: Although the top of that lost is crowded, I would say so. I would place him behind Nolan's Joker and MCU Kilgrave. I have him and DCEU Zod at three and four, they're interchangeable for me.

I liked them both equally.

Bane turning out to be a pawn made me lose a lot of respect for his character.

Tough choice, but I’m going to go Bane

Bane, nobody here will even remember Killmonger a year from now. 2 months later when IW hype is at its highest Thanos will surpass Loki as the best MCU villain. 10 years from now someone else will be surpassing Loki as the best MCU villain, rinse and repeat. Truth is that Killmonger is in the same class of villainy as Abomination, Yellowjacket, Whiplash and Iron Monger. A petty and jealous tool who wears an inversion of the heros look. Visually unispired,formulaic, unremarkable and decently acted. Jordon maybe a good actor but so were Bridges and Rourke.He served the story but it takes a lot more than that to be an iconic villain. Thats why Loki is regarded as the best MCU villain. An assesment I dont even agree with( Vulture ftw) but he's nothing like the formulaic MCU villain which makes him stand out.

Kill Monger easily, the only reason people remember that bane is due to his stupid look and old grandpa voice, not intimidating at all.

@entropy_aegis:

Bane, nobody here will even remember Killmonger a year from now. 2 months later when IW hype is at its highest Thanos will surpass Loki as the best MCU villain.

Thanos likely will surpass Killmonger seeing how long marvel has been building up to him. It would be embarrassing if he didn't. But there really is no way of knowing the future.

10 years from now someone else will be surpassing Loki as the best MCU villain, rinse and repeat. Truth is that Killmonger is in the same class of villainy as Abomination, Yellowjacket and Iron Monger.

Killmonger had actual depth to his character. Killmonger was also humanized in that one scene when he took the herb and talked to his father. None of the other villains you listed were ever humanized like that. So even though Killmonger is doing all these terrible things, you still have an understanding why Killmonger is the way he is and we're reminded that Killmonger was an innocent child at one point.

However despite that it doesn't take away from how ruthless he was. He killed Zuri without hesitation, he would have killed that old lady when she refused to burn the heart shaped herb, he killed his girl friend, and he beat T'challa while he was down. However unlike someone like abomination Killmonger didn't just want to wreck shit for the sake of wrecking shit. He resented black panther and Wakanda for not helping black people across the world despite the fact that they had all these riches (Not to mention T'chaka basically robbed him of his birth right by killing his father and leaving him behind). He thought what he was doing was right, and he did have a valid point (even if he went about it in the wrong way) which T'challa himself acknowledged at the end of the film.

He also created contrast between him and T'challa. T'challa's story in civil war was about getting revenge on Zemo for what he did to his father. Killmonger was also on a quest to avenge his fathers death, the difference being is that Killmonger never chose another path like T'challa did. When he was offered a path of redemption he refused to compromise his ideals and chose death instead.

A petty and jealous tool who wears an inversion of the heros look. Visually unispired,formulaic, unremarkable and decently acted.

I don't see how he was petty and jealous. Admittedly I wasn't a big fan of the panther suit however someone pointed out in another thread that the jaguar is the panther of the americas, whereas T'challa represents the panther of Africa.

He served his story but it takes a lot more than that to be an iconic villain. Thats why Loki is regarded as the best villain. An assesment I dont even agree with but he's nothing like the formulaic MCU villain which makes him stand out.

Well aside from banes voice what exactly made him interesting? Because that is the only thing that I feel makes Bane unique. Its been a while since I've seen rises. Being more memorable doesn't mean better IMO. It depends what your being remembered for. In the case of Bane people seem to mostly just remember his voice.

Bane also has the advantage of being apart of batmans mytho's who is a more iconic character than T'challa. In fact most people (including comic fans) didn't even know who Killmonger was until this movie. Bane is known from video games, cartoons, etc. and Nolans Bane is another adaptation on that.

@jashro44: I dont know whether Thanos will surpass him or not but I'm reasonably sure that Loki will be the one Thanos will be compared to. The same goes for all other future MCU villains. Nobody will be bringing Killmonger in to the equation. There wont be comparisons with Killmonger because Erik will have been forgotten for the hot new toy. He wont be the yard stick. The fact Joker and Bane are constantly compared to new villains is a testament to them being iconic.

Humanization and ruthlessness have nothing to do with it. Ledger's Joker was a shallow character as was Nicholson's for that matter and a good many Bond villains. But it doesn't matter because the actors carved a niche for themselves. Killmonger squarely falls in to the exact same category as Whiplash, Yellowjacket, Abomination and Iron Monger. He maybe more sympathetic but he's designed to be in the same boat as them. Bane was designed to be unlike other Batman villains in both Nolan films and the Batman films before him. He's not like MCU villains either or even other villains in DC films. The closest comparison he has is Darth Vader which itself is a compliment. Killmonger simply falls in to the MCU villain trap.

Mind you both characters are similar in the comics. They're bigger, superhuman versions of their heroic counterparts. Nolan was simply able to keep Bane as Batman's dark twin without literally putting him in a Bat suit while also adding his own unique touches. Killmonger was plain and then he became evil Panther just like half a dozen or so other MCU villains. As for Jaguar vs Leopard thing, well its cool on surface but Jaguars are found in South America so Erik should've been Black Cougar lol while Leopards are found world wide( India, Pakistan, Africa, China etc)

Better becomes subjective. I think Hardy's performance was superior, his design was uniquer, he was different from other villains in CBMs and still is, more quotable, memorable, mimickable, mysterious etc. To me that's better.

Bane being in other material actually puts him at a disadvantage actually. For instance nobody questioned Jordan's size and height like they did for Hardy even though both Bane and Killmonger are far larger than their actors. Hardy's size was a repeated complaint from "aware fans".

If Killmonger was as iconic then fans would have crucified Jordan for being physically unfit for the character like they did Ledger and Hardy.

@entropy_aegis:

I dont know whether Thanos will surpass him or not but I'm reasonably sure that Loki will be the one Thanos will be compared to. The same goes for all other future MCU villains. Nobody will be bringing Killmonger in to the equation. There wont be comparisons with Killmonger because Erik will have been forgotten for the hot new toy. He wont be the yard stick. The fact Joker and Bane are constantly compared to new villains is a testament to them being iconic.

Well again I don't view being more iconic as being better. I think it depends what your being remembered for. I guess its best we agree to disagree because you seem to have a different criteria for defining the best.

Humanization and ruthlessness have nothing to do with it. Ledger's Joker was a shallow character as was Nicholson's for that matter and a good many Bond villains. But it doesn't matter because the actors carved a niche for themselves.

I personally don't think Ledgers Joker was shallow. I agree the actor bringing the character to life and portraying the characters personality is a big factor.

Killmonger squarely falls in to the exact same category as Whiplash, Yellowjacket, Abomination and Iron Monger. He maybe more sympathetic but he's designed to be in the same boat as them. Bane was designed to be unlike other Batman villains in both Nolan films and the Batman films before him. He's not like MCU villains either or even other villains in DC films. The closest comparison he has is Darth Vader which itself is a compliment. Killmonger simply falls in to the MCU villain trap.

The only comparison I've ever heard between Bane and Vader is there voices. I've never heard anyone comparison between the two beyond that?

@entropy_aegis: Just noticed your edit:

Mind you both characters are similar in the comics. They're bigger, superhuman versions of their heroic counterparts. Nolan was simply able to keep Bane as Batman's dark twin without literally putting him in a Bat suit while also adding his own unique touches.

What makes you say Bane is batmans dark twin? I've never thought of Noaln Bane like that (I can see comic Bane I guess since there both highly intelligent [with exceptional deductive skills], physically peak humans, and skilled fighters).

Better becomes subjective. I think Hardy's performance was superior, his design was uniquer, he was different from other villains in CBMs and still is, more quotable, memorable, mimickable, mysterious etc. To me that's better.

I don't think there was much mystery to Bane (unless I am forgetting something). We know everything we need to know about him. He saved Talia from prison which is why they fell in love and he was kicked out of the league of shadows for being to ruthless. I will grant you Bane has a certain uniqueness to him with his voice and design but I don't think he has much else personally.

Bane being in other material actually puts him at a disadvantage actually. For instance nobody questioned Jordan's size and height like they did for Hardy even though both Bane and Killmonger are far larger than their actors. Hardy's size was a repeated complaint from "aware fans".

What I mean is it makes it easier to remember him because Bane is a more well known character in general. Ben Affleck's batman is also probably going to be more memorable than Killmonger because its batman but does that make him better? I mean people will remember Batfleck as the batman that used guns and killed his enemies which is also pretty unique from other batman depictions but its not necessarily better.

If Killmonger was as iconic then fans would have crucified Jordan for being physically unfit for the character like they did Ledger and Hardy.

I didn't know people complained about Ledgers look. All though fair enough.

Bane.

Killmonger

Bane.

1. I feel Killmonger's presence in the movie was lacking.

2. Killmonger's performance in the end wasn't impressive and memorable, but his motivations was decently presented.

3. Andy Serkis Klaue character was better acted and stole the villain role for me. His acting quality showed superior in a smaller screen time than Jordan's Killmonger imo.

Killmonger even if only decent is still superior to Bane.

Bane was a tool for another villain who you could hardly hear at times. He's only memorable because his voice made him sound like an old codger instead of formidable/intimidating like it was intended.

@jashro44: I personally believe iconography is a result of various factors. If Hardy's Bane wasn't unique, quotable, well acted and mimickable then he wouldn't be iconic. Killmonger served his purpose, Bane rose above his film and became iconic. That to me makes him better. I mean there are dozens of films produced by Hollywood. The guy you remember 10 years from now has automatically achieved a higher status.

Joker made deep points but he himself wasn't deep that's what I'm saying. His actions had more depth than him.

Bane is somewhat more comparable to Vader than other CBM villains. Who else is there to compare to him? There's Renard from Bond films I guess but overall Bane is a differentiated commodity in CBMs and arguably even in films in general that's what I was implying. Killmonger is wrapped up in the same homogenous package as about half a dozen other MCU villains.

Nolan Bane was trained by Ra's like Bruce. They were both rescued from prison by Ra's. Both were members of the LOS. Bane was kicked out while Bruce left himself. Bruce escaped the pit while Bane didn't. There were other more subtle similarities like how Bane's abduction of Pavell mirrored Bruce's capture of Lou, the theme of constant pain ( Bane's was physical while Bruce's pain was spiritual), both hid their pain behind masks and so on. So they converge at key points and diverge at other key points making Bane a dark twin. Its not in your face like CWs Dark Archer, Prometheus, Reverse Flash, Zoom or the mentioned MCU villains but its there. Its more subtle and smartly handled.

He was mysterious in that we got one small glimpse at his face from decades ago. His relationships with Ra's, Talia and the League are still largely a mystery, his background ( how he came to be, how he ended up in the prison, his crime, what made him protect Talia) is absolutely a mystery.

I think Ben Affleck will end up in the same category as Clooney and Kilmer. When Reeves film comes out he will be a memory. Much like how Bale sweeped aside his 2 immediate predecessors. Batfleck isn't memorable, he's a controversial character in a controversial franchise. Which is another way of saying shitty lol.

Ledger's casting was greeted with a lot of hate and vitriol

Bane, whose only real drawback of me was his funny voice.
Was he a minion? Certainly. Does that take anything away from him when we are able to go through 99% of the movie thinking he's the guy on top? No. Plus he was solid gold in terms of dialogue.

Also Killmonger, for me atleast, has issues. First of all, we go through something like half the movie before we really notice him over Clau. Secondly, his big plan just felt like this kind of Batman-esque escapade... which works for Batman villains as they are insane and sometimes the chaos and destruction is all there is to the plan (Talia/Bane's was). But Killmonger is not insane, so his plan is kinda weird. Is he a sympathetic villain, very little in my mind, because he's done a lot of bad before we find out we are supposed to pity him a bit... and by then it becomes clear we shouldn't. Not to mention, in the world of Wakanda that we had gotten used to, when he waltzed in, it sort of felt like a hiphop star entered a galla mainly attended by royalty, but that may ofc have been the point, a reminder of the difference between Wakanda and the streets of Oakland.

Bane is superior.

Bane was taken out so easily...

Whether you disagree or agree Killmonger is in at least the top 5 comicbook movie villains. Could've been Bane...

Killmonger easily

@king_stranglehold_da_first: I'm not sure what is there to agree or disagree about. Joker by Ledger and Nicholson, Zod by Stamp, Magneto by both Fassbander Ian Mckellen, Pfeiffer's Catwoman, Hardy's Bane and Hiddleston's Loki are the biggest and most iconic CBM villains.

We can talk about Killmonger on this exact date a year from now and no one will care.

lol... No just no...

I'm not even sure Loki should even be included.

Both were good but I'll go with Bane.

@king_stranglehold_da_first: I dislike Loki. I'll take Vulture, Hela, Abomination and even jokey Ultron over him personally. But its not about my feelings. Loki IS iconic, popular and memorable. Those are facts.

Bane for sure

People undermining him for working with Talia makes no sense, so is Darth Vader a lesser villain for with working with the Emperor?

Killmonger.

The one that was actually in charge of his own plans. Bane was nothing more than a stooge in the end.

Bane, though he had a shit ending which completely undid him. I’m willing to overlook it for Hardy’s menacing performance and great monologues - some of the best actually.

The old bait and switch for “shock” factor on first viewing, but doesn’t do many favors on repeated watches. Nolan did a Rian Johnson, and we all know how that goes.

Bane as he can't feel pain.

Killmonger. I loved his character development over Bane's, its almost like the opposite. Bane was still cool though, and there's just this, "Oh shit...Bruce is out of his depth here," feeling you get when the gate locks Batman in with him in their first fight. Bane starts out being perceived as the big bad, then you find out he's just the muscle. With Killmonger, you realize his takeover of Wakanda was something he began to orchestrate after seeing his father dead in their apartment that night. And when it comes to fighting/feats/gear (and hair), N'Jadaka is much cooler.

Killmonger.

The depth in his story and passion in his goals were stunning to watch even if you don't agree with his actions. I think one of the key reasons Bane is rated so highly is only because he's against the Batman and "broke the Bat." If people don't remember Killmonger in a few years, even with Thanos on the horizon, then its a travesty.

Yeah getting shot by cannons kind of does that to you...

Bane is good, but I found his voice irritating at times and him not being the mastermind but instead Talia’s puppy brings him down. Now that I think about it, Nolan really wasn’t trying when he directed TDKR.

@farkam: HAHAHAHAHAHHA

Bane. Both were great villains but Tom Hardy put up an absolutely fantastic performance. He was intimidating and badass.

As much as I loved Killmonger, I say Bane.

Can't believe people actually voted Killmonger.

You know what I don't care that logically Bane is better but Killmonger takes it for me.

@entropy_aegis:

I personally believe iconography is a result of various factors. If Hardy's Bane wasn't unique, quotable, well acted and mimickable then he wouldn't be iconic. Killmonger served his purpose, Bane rose above his film and became iconic. That to me makes him better. I mean there are dozens of films produced by Hollywood. The guy you remember 10 years from now has automatically achieved a higher status.

We'll agree to disagree here.

Joker made deep points but he himself wasn't deep that's what I'm saying. His actions had more depth than him.

Well I think that is why Jokers character had depth. We see his ideology/way of thinking. Joker representing the very worst of humanity and batman representing the very best. He wanted to prove that there are things we cannot control and that humanity is ultimately selfish (which is why we had the scene on the boat).

I would also say there is mystery about his origin, and how he got his scars as well. Admittedly Ledgers acting is probably the main reason he's the best CBM villain but I think his character was still well written.

Bane is somewhat more comparable to Vader than other CBM villains. Who else is there to compare to him? There's Renard from Bond films I guess but overall Bane is a differentiated commodity in CBMs and arguably even in films in general that's what I was implying. Killmonger is wrapped up in the same homogenous package as about half a dozen other MCU villains.

I don't know who I would compare Bane to. I just feel outside of there voice they aren't that similar.

Nolan Bane was trained by Ra's like Bruce. They were both rescued from prison by Ra's. Both were members of the LOS. Bane was kicked out while Bruce left himself. Bruce escaped the pit while Bane didn't. There were other more subtle similarities like how Bane's abduction of Pavell mirrored Bruce's capture of Lou, the theme of constant pain ( Bane's was physical while Bruce's pain was spiritual), both hid their pain behind masks and so on. So they converge at key points and diverge at other key points making Bane a dark twin. Its not in your face like CWs Dark Archer, Prometheus, Reverse Flash, Zoom or the mentioned MCU villains but its there. Its more subtle and smartly handled.

Fair points. I don't think this is too different from what I said about Killmonger contrasting with T'challa's story of revenge.

He was mysterious in that we got one small glimpse at his face from decades ago. His relationships with Ra's, Talia and the League are still largely a mystery, his background ( how he came to be, how he ended up in the prison, his crime, what made him protect Talia) is absolutely a mystery.

I don't think there are any unanswered questions about Banes connection to the league. I guess it was never officially answered how bane ended up in prison but I assumed he was just born there. He mentioned he was "born in the dark" and comic bane was also born in prison so I just assumed the same was true for Nolan's Bane.

I think Ben Affleck will end up in the same category as Clooney and Kilmer. When Reeves film comes out he will be a memory. Much like how Bale sweeped aside his 2 immediate predecessors. Batfleck isn't memorable, he's a controversial character in a controversial franchise. Which is another way of saying shitty lol.

Ledger's casting was greeted with a lot of hate and vitriol

Well I guess another example would be Adam Wests batman. I think that he is the most iconic live action batman but its mostly associated with being really campy and ridiculous.

@jashro44:

Yeah that's why I said his actions had depth. He made great points and went to great lengths to prove them. But he didn't really seem to believe them as much as he talked about them. I meant depth in the classic sense. He obviously didn't have a traditional backstory, a well defined motivation etc. He was totally an enigma and Ledger took the ball and ran with it.

That's what I'm saying though, Bane isn't very comparable.

Killmonger is too much an evil twin and in the same mold as Yellowjacket, Whiplash and Abomination. In the end he struggles to rise beyond that.

There was material about Bane's early years that was cut. I think his story leaves much to the imagination which makes him mysterious.

West is considered a product of his time. In those years Batman really was like that and his show was very popular and well liked . No one will say that Batman should return to those days but the 60's show created a mania during its time. For that reason West is iconic.