You are missing Sa'ar, the Ageless One, he demolished Shiva
He doesn't seem to have a comicvine wiki page for me to add him.
. Drakon is not nearly as skilled as Cass, Bruce or Shiva, just inhumanly quick.
Oh okay. I kept hearing he curbstomped Conner or something due to skill, so i had put him in.
And Prometheus can't be < Shiva given that his protege one shotted her.
His protege stated that he had updated his helmet with some new skills. Unless Prometheus had been confirmed to do the same later on, I don't see why Prometheus>his protege skill-wise.
Edit: Bamboo Monkey destroyed Nightwing, he can't be below him, either.
I consider Post Flashpoint Nightwing>Post Crisis skill-wise.
Silver Monkey is also ahead of Dick and arguably Connor.
Feats for Silver Monkey?
- he had actually, cant find it right now, not sure what happened.
- He didnt really hes like a speedster that does not use the speed-force, hes also skilled but on top-tier, his speed makes him over the top though.
- the whole prometheus thing is trouble though, but i'l let you decide to include him or not.
- i agree, he has better feats now, stallemating Batman, giving trouble to Midnighter, he also can read-movements too now, to a degree...but Bambo Monkey was easly handling him and Robin together at the same time, he should be above him.
- Silver Monkey beat Batman momentarily, though the whole feat could be seen as more of a stealth feat than a skill feat as he tried to attack Batman by surprise, although i think that was made clear that he was at least around his level of skill, and Silver Monkey defeated Connor Hawke twice the first was a stomp, but still couldnt beat Lady Shiva.
1) Despite being very skilled, Cass is actually not as skilled as Sensei, Lady Shiva, Richard Dragon, or Batman...not unless you count in her special abillities such as Body-Reading, Copy-Move abillity, Weakness-Finder, etc.
2) If you count "peak-Cass" then she's either number 1 or at least number 2...Sensei and Cass have never fought against each other, i guess that by overwall showings Sensei should win because he has few and they are all OP so its consistent for him.
3) Batman is not more skilled than either Lady Shiva or Richard Dragon, he's tied with them or just a little bit less skilled (pre-flashpoint versions that is, current Shiva seems to be vastly superior to everyone)
4) Nightwing (Dick Grayson) cant be above the Bambo Monkey, because on the same story-arc that had Lady Shiva fighting Connor Hawke in a great fight, the Bambo Monkey was dominating both Nightwing and Robin (Tim Drake) at the same time, before Connor Hawke came to rescue them, and he defeated the Bambo Monkey solo.
5) Prometheus is a complicated character to use in matters like these...i dont judge you for using him, its just complicated...first, the guy technically isnt even skilled at all...he just uses a helmet that gives him the skill of the 30 best fighters in the world...second, his showings are few and inconsistent...he has stomped Batman once, along with several members of the justice league, but they fought evenly on their second fight and it was 1-on-1...third, one of his bigger claims to fame, its a guy called Chad Graham using prometheus helmet taking down Shiva in like 3 panels, the problem is, right after that he got trouble against Huntress and Lady Blackhawke who arent even very skilled to begin with, its obvious that the whole thing was Gail Simone (the writter of Birds Of prey, the book on which the said feat occurred) wanking the titular characters...
I'm so excited for the conclusion of the current arc, and the next one as well ! this book is the best thing that DC has come up with in over a decade! i'm so glad that Rebirth made it happen!
I'm not very excited for Batman: Metal, because lets face it, Batman will get to do something incredible, and thats cool and all, but what about the rest of the bat-fam? what will happen with the bat-books that will be appart of this event? incoming story derailment for Detective Comics in June and Jully, get ready folks...on one side, i hope that this gets Detective Comics some more readers because this book is really good, although its already selling very well, on the other hand this will only make it more difficult for writters to write the stories they want while having to do so while allowing thei're books to be engulfed by this event.
I particularly liked that we got to see the team split up and take out the Victims individually, and each of those ways were reflective of their character. Batman's mostly on defense and is trying to subdue the First Victim without much damage, which shows he's paying attention to their message; Clayface goes for trickery, which ties in to his abilities as an actor; Batwoman charges in bluntly and simply beats up her target; Batwing makes a flashy entrance and uses high-tech gadgetry, and Orphan uses stealth and precision. Very thoughtfully done.
I also liked that Luke and Kate are slowly but surely on the path to being on good terms. They've got a ways to go, but it's a start. And I'm extremely interested to see what Spoiler's plan is.
This, exactly.
This is what Tynion brings to this book, compare this to King's Batman, and you can easly see who knows what he's doing and who doesn't.
Btw, is Spoiler going to freacking solo the whole bat-team? i mean, on the last page, Cass, Batman, Batwoman and Batwing look pretty defeated to me (they were on their knee's just for earing that noise...), unless Batwing can find a way to block the signal that Spoiler used to incapacitate them, she's going to easly solo them, lol. i really hope not, i'm going to riot if se does.
Another amazing issue from this run of Detective Comics, as always! good characterization, cool action-scenes, and the story is progressing at a enjoyable pace.
@caivu: My bad. That makes more sense. When I was reading Detective Comics I got irked that she was trying to train Cass. Pre52, only a handful of people were more skilled than her. And even though Tim was the weakest fighter of the Robins, he was still a top tier martial artist. And all of them were battle hardened by Batman. It felt unnecessary to have them get "trained" by someone else who seemed far below them.
But if the 10 years wiped that away then that's cool she's rearing them back up. Do you think they'd regain their skill after Rebirth has concluded?
Although she doesn't have 1/10 of her Pre52 feats, as far as we know, Cass is still the most skilled fighter in the bat-family, in their showings so far we've seen Batman and Nightwing (Dick Grayson) stallemating on Nightwing #30 - Setting Son , and on Batman & Robin Eternal #1 Cass easly defeated Dick Grayson, and Dick even stated that he noted that Cass was holding back not to kill him, also on Batman & Robin Eternal #26 - New World The Mother overwhelmed Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake and Damian Wayne, in one page, and later on that same issue Cass stomped The Mother effortlessy.
But the thing is, Cass is still a rookie as far as crime-fighting goes, she needs to learn detective
There's something that i don't understand though, DC says that the Batwoman solo-series will start in February, and will follow the events of the current Night Of The Monster Men crossover, but how and why i ask? after the current monster men arc ends, there will be a arc about Spoiler in Detective Comics "the victim sindicate" and after that there will be a arc about Cass, and only then there will be those 2-issues-introduction to the Batwoman series called "batwoman begins"...so are we to assume that once we get there, that story toke place in the past? like, during the events of the next 2 arcs that will take place before "Batwoman begins"? but in reallity according to the timeline should take place away after?? i dont understand.
@kiba: @laughingbatman: Batwoman leading the bat-family in my opinion, has more to do with in-the-field-experience (remember that she was already kicking ass long before she became Batwoman) and with leadership skills, than with who's the most capable crime-fighter.
@kiba: I see what you're saying now. I think Batman put her in charge as if this was her own JLA/TT. Obviously not the same level or diversity as those leagues, but I think it's a way for writers to make her more prominent. But with Tim out of the picture for now and Dick most likely being out of the picture after Night of the Monster Men, she's left to train a team composed of Clayface, Spoiler, and Cassandra Cain. Maybe Duke will step in too. Not a very talented team without the former Robins. In no way do I think Batwoman should be on a pedestal, I just appreciate giving her a shot at being something than a B or C list character.
Lol, its funny you say that, since either Cassandra Cain or Clayface, could easly defeat all 4 Robins and former Robins together at the same time...we saw this in the last issue of Batman and Robin Eternal when The Mother toke out Dick, Jason, Tim and Damian, one after the other, in one page, and later on that issue Cass stomped The Mother effortlessy....as for Clayface, his powerset speaks for itself...Actually the only member of the team that would have problems beating a Robin or former Robin is Spoiler, but she brings in many other positive things to a book than just skills...as for Duke, i don't think that he will appear on Detective Comics anytime soon, considering that James Tynion himself gave a interview in august, and when asked about what characters may be joining the current bat-family-team in the future he said: "Batwing"...now, we already know that Harper will appear on issue 943 but we don't know what her role will be, chances are that she will only make ocasional appearences and not become part of the main group.
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