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The Cleanest Cosmology You'll Ever See (MARVEL)

Norse Marvelogy

Trembles Yggdrasil's ash yet standing, groans that Tree of Life, and the giant is loosed!
Trembles Yggdrasil's ash yet standing, groans that Tree of Life, and the giant is loosed!

Marvel Cosmology is pretty much ramped up Norse myths, over half a century of lore. Generally, the problem is that lore often clashes with the norm (ie feats). Outcomes include lore getting thrown out the window or becoming the dominant discourse.

So this is a level playing field. Cosmological showings can get their due credit by playing in the same standard system - by the same rules - as all other feats.

BEHOLD:

The fire giant Surtur blows up the Burning Galaxy.

Thor #337
Thor #337
Thor #750
Thor #750

Surtur swings the condensed star ingot so hard, the impact shakes a billion billion worlds.

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Thor #337
Thor #337

Surtur works the Forge of Destruction outside the universe, his every blow, harder than the last.

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Thor #338
Thor #338

Fafnir the Dragon is freed from imprisonment by the mere echoes of Surtur's blow.

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Thor #339
Thor #339

The monsters awaken within the Earth; the echoes of Surtur's blow ring across the cosmos

Thor #340
Thor #340

Surtur's clarion call is heard in Svartalfheim with another blow + the unfinished sword's power

Thor #343
Thor #343

Surtur gestures, and Muspelheim wells up with fire and brimstone to temper his sword

Thor #344
Thor #344

Surtur finishes the sword, lights up Muspelheim and destroys the Forge of Destruction

Thor #345
Thor #345

Surtur is now able to force his way into the universe - as Destruction Incarnate

Thor #348
Thor #348

Twilight makes Surtur mightier than ever - Odin-Power that stomped him before, can't stop him now

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Thor #352
Thor #352

Surtur swords Odin with such force that shockwaves rumble throughout the Nine Realms

Thor #352
Thor #352

Then it's directly confirmed that Surtur was never this powerful before, that his power is from the sword

Thor #353
Thor #353
18 Comments

New comic dropped, Wonder Woman confirms she is slow

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Based on distance, gun, and readiness, the reaction would be somewhere around the ballpark of 30 m/s.

Notes:

Canon: Continuity of this comic flows directly from its ending to the beginning of Wonder Woman's current run.

Consistency: Bullet timing is her moving a foot or two at best whereas the bullets cross meters - no equivalence

Power: Wonder Woman tanks a punch from her daughter, who is real strong

18 Comments

The Official Spider-Verse Meta: Concordance of the Spider-Realms

Into, across, and beyond the worlds we know, there is the Great Web that binds all things.

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The Web is Life!

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The Web is Destiny!

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And Spider-Man wields its power and brings its force to bear.

With the following, I hereby enshrine this as the official debating meta for Spider-Verse.

Word of God
Word of God

Now, as to what that means...

Spider-Gang Patch Notes:

For all of you who know what the last Secret Wars was, you will understand that an incursion event instigated the events of the Spider-Verse films. This brought Noir, Gwen, Porker, Peni, and Peter B. into the universe of Miles Morales. And it was ultimately what got them out, too. These characters are the Spider-Gang upon their creation.

This meta will not drown you in essays. Overall, it is simply this. The universes were crashing unto one another, great quakes rolling like thunder betwixt the worlds, threatening to destroy the entire multiverse. But it proved naught against the might of the Spider.

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616 Spider-Man

Peter B. Parker is a variant of 616 Spider-Man, the mainline version in the comics.

The Web of Life and Destiny shows 616 comics as canon events, meaning it's all one Spider-Verse for all properties...but now onto the B-version.

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His Spider-Versal arrival feats were completely shown, whereas they weren't for the rest of the Spider-Gang. Though the same exact thing happened to all of them.

He manages to hold himself against it with webs for a moment (webs, albeit undamaged, are ripped from their mooring so in he goes), drag items to him through it, falls through the multiverse, rams into Miles's universe that is storming with energy (that he also is provably coated in) due to the incursion.

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Considering he is a 616 Spider-Man variant, there is some comic scaling to be had, due to shared timelines. The last page in his book prior to ITSV shows a page from Web of Spider-Man that also refers to the Spectacular Spider-Man series. Whenever 616-B diverted from the 616 timeline, it was not before these 616 events happened. A good portion of Spider-Man comics (anything 1989 and before) are 100% canon to Peter-B's timeline due to the revelations of the Spider-Verse.

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Specifically within the titles referenced, Peter B. technically took a blasting from the Beyonder and a blow with the power to kill the Beyonder.

He returns home, dragged between his universe and Miles's one.

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Spider-Man Noir

Spider-Man Noir is from the darkness and of the darkness and is the darkness...

Background for this character is Spider-Man Noir Vol 1

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Which means his power comes from Ereshkigal, goddess of death.

Noir's power is so great that the wind follows him wherever he goes, even into a different universe.

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As one of the OG Spider-Gang who arrived from somewhere else in ITSV, he is entitled to partake in the Spider-Versal incursion. For the arrival, and the return trip where he is dragged between his world and that of Miles Morales. The coloring makes this pretty obvious.

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Spider-Gwen

This one is where Gwen Stacy became a Spider.

She partakes in the incursion, and her return is shown, where she is dragged between her universe and Miles's universe (notice all the pink).

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Sp//dr

Sp//dr is Peni Parker, an anime Spider who wields her dad's exosuit operated by an actual spider.

She was part of the original incursion, and has a return trip through it as well, where she is dragged between her universe and Miles's. As usual the color is the same as her intro (

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Spider-Ham

The most anomalous of all, Porker himself, who wields the awesome power of the Toon-Force, was an actual spider named Peter before he turned into a piggy.

A portion of Porke's Spider-Versal feats are shown in a tie-in short to ATSV. He actually managed to pull himself back into his own reality.

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But the mooring his webs were attached to didn't hold, so back he went.

Porker's piggish powers can make a goofy out of great Galactus himself.

Reference to comics canon
Reference to comics canon

He steals Porky Pig's famous line before returning as well, and his exit as he is being dragged between his universe and Miles's is quite cartoonish visibly and audibly.

No Caption Provided

However, what rises above all others is Porker's warrior's heart, his fighting spirit.

He has also withstood grievous punishment from the Creator, God, TOAA, the very writer of his story:

Ramming him with the very edge of the verse

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Violently shaking the verse upon him

No Caption Provided

Twisting time itself against him

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Hitting him with the power of creation itself (Pen/Mouse)

No Caption Provided
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Ultimate Spider-Man

Miles Morales is the main character of the Spider-Verse films.

He blasted away the Kingpin with his "HEY!" to victory, which considering Kingpin's power...

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His Venom Blast spreads out due to the green button and is seemingly responsible for warping the incursion. He resists the reversal of this incursion, the power that moves the universes back into their original positions, accompanied by dimensional aftershocks, even when the chaos was at its fever pitch.

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Miles melded with Spot due to shenanigans, and unleashed a multiverse-sized burst of power that tosses supermassive black holes

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Spider-Man 2099

Man of the hour, master of the Spider-Society, mighty guardian of the Spider-Verse!

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Miguel O'Hara is a fearsome warrior who has restrained universal destruction and torn asunder the fabric of the multiverse.

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MCU Spider-Man

It always comes back to Holland.

Holland's foes in NWH are the most powerful villains who ever fought a Spidey in any universe.

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Which is proven when one of them destroys the Macchina di Kadavus that contained the spell, made of the same material used to contain the Time Stone.

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Spider-Man 2099's reference to the collapse of all of time and space is a reference to not only ITSV, but also to the events of Spider-Man: No Way Home.

Now I'm stuck putting everybody back where they belong before all of time and space collapses! And don't even get me started on Dr. Strange and the little nerd back on Earth-199999!

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Bonus points for MCU Prowler showing up in ATSV.

MCU Spider-Man is only knocked back as Dr Strange let slip of the unholy magics - behold the force of the multiverse unfurled.

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Spider-Man defeated Dr. Strange in the struggle over this. Such was his power that even an infinite dimension shook Archimedes-style. But Spidey did not falter...Spidey did not fall!

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Who else could resist the combined power of the Infinity Stones?

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MCU Spider-Man's variant (Avengers Campus) has appeared in the Spider-Verse comics as well. He joined the army of Spiders to battle the Elder Goddess of Spider-Wasps, Shathra herself.

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immediate left of war cry
immediate left of war cry

For reference, Shathra, when unchallenged by the might of the Spider, was smashing the multiverses into one single universe, as was her original idea for creation at its beginning.

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For she could not turn him! And with the Spider-Army, he helped hold her back for a time.

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Start the Conversation

The Spider-Verse Meta: Uniting Comics, Animation, and Live Action

Into, across, and beyond the worlds we know, there is the Great Web that binds all things.

No Caption Provided

The Web is Life!

No Caption Provided

The Web is Destiny!

No Caption Provided

And Spider-Man wields its power and brings its force to bear. Now I shall establish what this means in the relationships established by the modern developments in the Spider-Verse.

With the following, I hereby enshrine this as the meta for Spider-Verse.

Word of God
Word of God

Spider-Gang Patch Notes:

For all of you who know what the last Secret Wars was, you will understand that an incursion event instigated the events of the Spider-Verse films. This brought Noir, Gwen, Porker, Peni, and Peter B. into the universe of Miles Morales. And it was ultimately what got them out, too. These characters are the Spider-Gang upon their creation.

This meta will not drown you in essays. Overall, it is simply this. The universes were crashing unto one another, great quakes rolling like thunder betwixt the worlds, threatening to destroy the entire multiverse. But it proved naught against the might of the Spider.

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And known by anyone who watched Spider-Verse films, Spiders were taking the glitching, these great dimensional quakes, through and through.

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616 Spider-Man

Peter B. Parker is a variant of 616 Spider-Man, the mainline version in the comics.

The Web of Life and Destiny shows 616 comics as canon events, meaning it's all one Spider-Verse for all properties...but now onto the B-version.

No Caption Provided

His Spider-Versal arrival feats were completely shown, whereas they weren't for the rest of the Spider-Gang. Though the same exact thing happened to all of them.

He manages to hold himself against it with webs for a moment (webs, albeit undamaged, are ripped from their mooring so in he goes), drag items to him through it, falls through the multiverse, rams into Miles's universe that is storming with energy (that he also is provably coated in) due to the incursion.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
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No Caption Provided
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No Caption Provided

Considering he is a 616 Spider-Man variant, there is some comic scaling to be had, due to shared timelines. The last page in his book prior to ITSV shows a page from Web of Spider-Man that also refers to the Spectacular Spider-Man series. Whenever 616-B diverted from the 616 timeline, it was not before these 616 events happened. A good portion of Spider-Man comics (anything 1989 and before) are 100% canon to Peter-B's timeline due to the revelations of the Spider-Verse.

No Caption Provided

Specifically within the titles referenced, Peter B. technically took a blasting from the Beyonder and a blow with the power to kill the Beyonder.

He returns home, dragged between his universe and Miles's one.

No Caption Provided

Spider-Man Noir

Spider-Man Noir is from the darkness and of the darkness and is the darkness...

Background for this character is Spider-Man Noir Vol 1

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Which means his power comes from Ereshkigal, goddess of death.

Noir's power is so great that the wind follows him wherever he goes, even into a different universe.

No Caption Provided

As one of the OG Spider-Gang who arrived from somewhere else in ITSV, he is entitled to partake in the Spider-Versal incursion. For the arrival, and the return trip where he is dragged between his world and that of Miles Morales. The coloring makes this pretty obvious.

No Caption Provided

Spider-Gwen

This one is where Gwen Stacy became a Spider.

She partakes in the incursion, and her return is shown, where she is dragged between her universe and Miles's universe (notice all the pink).

No Caption Provided

Sp//dr

Sp//dr is Peni Parker, an anime Spider who wields her dad's exosuit operated by an actual spider.

She was part of the original incursion, and has a return trip through it as well, where she is dragged between her universe and Miles's. As usual the color is the same as her intro (

No Caption Provided

Spider-Ham

The most anomalous of all, Porker himself, who wields the awesome power of the Toon-Force, was an actual spider named Peter before he turned into a piggy.

A portion of Porke's Spider-Versal feats are shown in a tie-in short to ATSV. He actually managed to pull himself back into his own reality.

No Caption Provided

But the mooring his webs were attached to didn't hold, so back he went.

Porker's piggish powers can make a goofy out of great Galactus himself.

Reference to comics canon
Reference to comics canon

He steals Porky Pig's famous line before returning as well, and his exit as he is being dragged between his universe and Miles's is quite cartoonish visibly and audibly.

No Caption Provided

However, what rises above all others is Porker's warrior's heart, his fighting spirit.

He has also withstood grievous punishment from the Creator, God, TOAA, the very writer of his story:

Ramming him with the very edge of the verse

No Caption Provided

Violently shaking the verse upon him

No Caption Provided

Twisting time itself against him

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Hitting him with the power of creation itself (Pen/Mouse)

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Ultimate Spider-Man

Miles Morales is the main character of the Spider-Verse films.

He blasted away the Kingpin with his "HEY!" to victory, which considering Kingpin's power...

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

His Venom Blast spreads out due to the green button and is seemingly responsible for warping the incursion. He resists the reversal of this incursion, the power that moves the universes back into their original positions, accompanied by dimensional aftershocks, even when the chaos was at its fever pitch.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Miles melded with Spot due to shenanigans, and unleashed a multiverse-sized burst of power that tosses supermassive black holes

No Caption Provided

Spider-Man 2099

Man of the hour, master of the Spider-Society, mighty guardian of the Spider-Verse!

No Caption Provided

Miguel O'Hara is a fearsome warrior who has restrained universal destruction and torn asunder the fabric of the multiverse.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
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He has survived the destruction of a reality, heralded by dimensional quakes and concluded by the shattering of certain strands of the Great Web.

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Reply • Quote • 12 days ago

MCU Spider-Man

It always comes back to Holland.

Holland's foes in NWH are the most powerful villains who ever fought a Spidey in any universe.

No Caption Provided

Which is proven when one of them destroys the Macchina di Kadavus that contained the spell, made of the same material used to contain the Time Stone.

No Caption Provided

Spider-Man 2099's reference to the collapse of all of time and space is a reference to not only ITSV, but also to the events of Spider-Man: No Way Home.

Now I'm stuck putting everybody back where they belong before all of time and space collapses! And don't even get me started on Dr. Strange and the little nerd back on Earth-199999!

No Caption Provided

Bonus points for MCU Prowler showing up in ATSV.

MCU Spider-Man is only knocked back as Dr Strange let slip of the unholy magics - behold the force of the multiverse unfurled.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Yes, it was recently confirmed in the official timeline of the MCU that the explosion cracked the Multiverse.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Spider-Man defeated Dr. Strange in the struggle over this. Such was his power that even an infinite dimension shook Archimedes-style. But Spidey did not falter...Spidey did not fall!

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Who else could resist the combined power of the Infinity Stones?

No Caption Provided

MCU Spider-Man's variant (Avengers Campus) has appeared in the Spider-Verse comics as well. He joined the army of Spiders to battle the Elder Goddess of Spider-Wasps, Shathra herself.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
immediate left of war cry
immediate left of war cry

For reference, Shathra, when unchallenged by the might of the Spider, was smashing the multiverses into one single universe, as was her original idea for creation at its beginning.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

For she could not turn him! And with the Spider-Army, he helped hold her back for a time.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
60 Comments