Formerly warrior Princess Koriand'r of the now-destroyed planet Tamaran, Starfire found a new home on Earth and a new family in the Teen Titans. She was once romantically involved with Dick Grayson, and often dealt with hostilities from her older sister Blackfire. Starfire has also served with many other teams such as the Outsiders, Justice League, R.E.B.E.L.S. and Jason Todd's Outlaws.
How did Starfire and Dick Grayson end up breaking up? Sorry for being out of the DC loop for too long but I really liked them as a couple and they were together for so long...What exactly brought about the end to their relationship and do you think there is a chance they'll patch things up again later? I always enjoyed their romance and think it would suck if Dick ended up like Bruce, never finding a special someone and ending up alone, or if Kory ended up losing the man she loved after everything they've been through together as Titans and Outsiders.
Im not 100% certain but i believe the called it quits when they were about to get married and Raven (who was evil at the time) seduced Dick or something like that in to being her follower and he left Starfire. He was later released when Raven was captured or helped and im not sure why they never got back together. They have slept together since then but he has told her that he doesnt love her and she is now with the R.E.B.E.L.S. because she cant be on the same planet as Dick when they arent together.Sounds like she has a friends with benefits thing going on.
@Sinestro2828: They drifted apart (or he drifted away from her) after Donna died, Dick distanced himself from everyone close to him and went on to lead the Outsiders. Kori would later join the same squad in hopes of making him less distant from his teammates. It's not been fully explained why he choose to leave her, but it might have been that they both were so easilly baited by Lust, one of Raven's brothers. But the nightmare wedding might have played a part in it and the events following it, where Starfire distanced herself from him to complete a ritual she was to have comepleted at an erlier age, think Dick admitted he only proposed to her to have atleast one good thing going for him, as he was extremely stressed at that time.
Just a side note to DEGRAAF; Nightwing never joined Evil Raven, a future version of him called Deathwing did (he was from the same time line as the Team Titans, only a scumbag instead of a hero), what happened to him is left unknown.
It's been a while since I've read the series, but the mechanics behind the breakup had to do with the editors pulling Dick Grayson out of the Titans so that the Batman comics could use him more. The Titans writers had actually planned for Dick and Kory to marry and live happily ever after (or the closest a superhero couple could manage to that.)
The weird part was that there was no 'official" breakup. After the wedding fiasco, they were supposed to have a rooftop meeting and talk it out but Kory just didn't show up. She flew off, apparently to the Amazon, because she was going through some sort of Tamaranian coming of age event, which involved her flipping out and becoming more feral. She even burned off most of her hair with a starbolt, so for a short time she had shorter hair. Dick Grayson tracks her down and she doesn't remember him. She eventually leaves the planet, marries a Tamaranian general; at one point she says she's in love with him, and at another she said it was sort of political. At one point in the story she is supposed to be pregnant (presumably her husband's child, but then it is retconned to be the good bit of Raven's soul, which was transmitted when Raven attacked/ kissed her at the wedding. The book was going downhill at the time, so it's hard to remember exactly what happened.
As far as I know, there wasn't an official breakup until Kory asked Dick in the last Titans incarnation, if he was in love with her (because he was sleeping with her), and he said no. As far ask I know, Kory is still in love with him. (Kory said when she gave Dick Grayson her heart, it wasn't a loan.) but Dick seems to have moved on - with SEVERAL women.
Kory was fine when with Dick, but sometimes writers are like possesed by some stupid demons... I don't know how to explain it, but they destroy everything what's fine. :|
It's been a while since I've read the series, but the mechanics behind the breakup had to do with the editors pulling Dick Grayson out of the Titans so that the Batman comics could use him more. The Titans writers had actually planned for Dick and Kory to marry and live happily ever after (or the closest a superhero couple could manage to that.)
The weird part was that there was no 'official" breakup. After the wedding fiasco, they were supposed to have a rooftop meeting and talk it out but Kory just didn't show up. She flew off, apparently to the Amazon, because she was going through some sort of Tamaranian coming of age event, which involved her flipping out and becoming more feral. She even burned off most of her hair with a starbolt, so for a short time she had shorter hair. Dick Grayson tracks her down and she doesn't remember him. She eventually leaves the planet, marries a Tamaranian general; at one point she says she's in love with him, and at another she said it was sort of political. At one point in the story she is supposed to be pregnant (presumably her husband's child, but then it is retconned to be the good bit of Raven's soul, which was transmitted when Raven attacked/ kissed her at the wedding. The book was going downhill at the time, so it's hard to remember exactly what happened.
As far as I know, there wasn't an official breakup until Kory asked Dick in the last Titans incarnation, if he was in love with her (because he was sleeping with her), and he said no. As far ask I know, Kory is still in love with him. (Kory said when she gave Dick Grayson her heart, it wasn't a loan.) but Dick seems to have moved on - with SEVERAL women.
The plan for the rooftop meeting was after the Tamaranian coming of age event
It was not before
She regained her memory after she was kissed by a hero
She was being attacked and she was rescued and taken to the ship, and the crew eventually helped her regain her meories
after that, she realized that she and Dick were not ready to be marred and too young
she also felt that Earth was no longer her home for she belongs in Tamaran
I want to address misconceptions about the Dick/Kory fanbase .
I see people assuming that the Dick/Kory ship is very popular because of the Teen Titans cartoon show that first aired on July 2003. That show is based on Marv Wolfman run, The New Teen Titans,Tales of the Teen Titans,and the Titans comics from 1980 to 1994 which was the period when Dick Grayson (aka Robin,Nightwing) and Koriand'r (Starfire) were each other's love interest for fourteen straight years.
The Marv Wolfman run, New Teen Titans was one of the best-selling and popular comic series that even rivaled X-Men. In 1982, Marvel and DC Present featuring The Uncanny X-Men and The New Teen Titans was released. Dick became one of the most popular comic book characters during his time in the Marv Wolfman run, The New Teen Titans.
Dick/Kory was very popular among comic book readers and was one of the most iconic comic book couples during the 1980s and 1990s. My favorite comic book couple of all time is Peter Parker (Spider-Man)/Mary Jane Watson, and they're one of the most popular and iconic couples in comic book history. There was a time that Mary Jane was out of comics when Dick and Kory were each other's love interests and was not in a relationship with Peter when Dick and Kory were in a relationship. Mary Jane turned down Peter's marriage proposal and left him in 1977. During the time that Mary Jane was out of comics, Peter had other love interests including especially Felicia Hardy (Black Cat) who was his relationship partner when Mary Jane was brought back in comics in The Amazing Spider-Man, Volume 1, issue #238 published March 1982. It was 1982 when Dick and Kory became an official couple in The New Teen Titans, Volume 1 issue #26 that was published on December 1982. In that issue, Dick revealed to Kory that he does have romantic love feelings for her after the aftermath of Teen Titans' attempt to rescue Kory from Kory's sister Komand'r (Blackfire) and the Citadel who had made Kory a slave for 5 or 6 years , and they were depicted as going out on dates for a few weeks with their first onpanel date being Dick and Kory going to a Broadway show. Peter broke up with Felicia in Peter Parker,The Spectacular Spider-Man Volume 1, #100 published March 1985. Therefore, Peter was still in a relationship with Felicia even after Mary Jane came back into his life. In Spider-Man Versus Wolverine published on February 1987, Peter and Mary Jane realized that they were deceiving themselves about the depth of their feelings for each other and that they were very much in love.
Peter and Mary Jane didn't get back into a relationship until they got married in The Amazing Spider-Man Annual #21 published September 1987. They got married and became one of the greatest comic book couples of all time with a marriage that lasted 20 years.
Just one month before that in August 1987, The New Teen Titans Volume 2, Issue #34 had Dick and Kory resuming their relationship after Dick broke up with her because he didn't want to be with her while she was in a marriage of state with Prince Karras to prevent a civil war that would save millions of lives on Tamaran in The New Teen Titans Volume 2, Issue #18 published on March 1986. Dick and Kory got back together after 17 months apart even though they were still in love with each other, and the issue #34 with a very happy Kory flying herself and Dick high into the night time sky ending with the very last page with them in an embrace and romantic kiss against the background of starlit sky. I believe that it is one of the most iconic romantic scenes in comics, and so I had to show it to you. I am convinced that Dick/Kory was not far behind Peter/Mary Jane in popularity at the time. I came to the conclusion that Dick/Kory was to DC that Peter/Mary Jane was to Marvel at the time.
Since they got back together, their relationship got way better to the point that there was a strong trust and understanding of each other. Dick told Kory his constant dreams of making love to Raven, and Kory listened without any jealousy and gives input about love and feelings from her Tamaranean perspective that ends up impressing Dick. Kory talks to Raven for Dick, and she helps Raven understand that her powers are influencing Dick and that she really isn't in love with Dick. Raven realizes that she's speaking the truth and feels ashamed and wants to leave, but Kory comforts and befriends her. The two became very good friends after that. Kory and Raven tricked Dick with Raven kissing Dick like she was in love with him. After they revealed the trick, Dick tells Kory that he moved his stuff in her apartment. Kory is so happy that she picks him up and she flies high into sky as they hug and kiss. All this takes place in The New Teen Titans, Volume 2 issue #39.
In The New Titans issue #71 published in November 1990, Dick thinks about how much he loves her and how she helped him with his emotions. He even tells a story about space princess Kory to a little girl who was on a ledge. In the story, he described Kory as beautiful on the outside but also beautiful on the inside and that she believed in truth and fairness for everyone. While Dick is telling this story about Kory, Kory got tricked by somebody pretending to need help, drugged,beaten up,and taken prisoner. The next comic issue was the beginning Titan Hunt story. The Conclusion of the Titan Hunt in The New Titans issue #84 had Dick reunited with Kory and other captured Titans in Azarath, but Raven is completely taken over by Trigon. Dick and Kory's relationship goes downhill with Kory still being affected by what happened to her in Azarath and Mirage disguising herself as Kory and having sex with Dick. After the events with Mirage, Kory feels insecure about Dick's love for her even though Dick is still in love with her. Still feeling hurt and hating he didn't know he had been with Mirage and she can recognize everything about him, she breaks up with him in New Titans issue #97. In the New Titans issue #99, Dick desperately tries to get back together with Kory and he even goes to a club dressed up as Nightwing and tries to talk to her when Kory was with a friend watching a show. Kory doesn't want to talk to him until later. Nightwing comes off a bit possessive, and her friend intervenes. Nightwing gets violent with him. Kory blasts him with a starbolt. Not long after, he shows up at Kory's apartment at 3:30 AM and tells Kory that he loves and needs her,admitted that he was thinking with his hormones and not his head in regards to not being able to know that he was having sex with somebody disguised as Kory, saying his morality makes him a one-woman man and that she's that woman and will always be, and asking her to marry him leading to the last page of Dick and Kory in each other's arms kissing. Obviously, Kory accepted Dick's marriage proposal.
You can imagine that a lot of Teen Titans comic fans were very disappointed when Dick and Kory had a wedding in the August 1993 published The New Titans issue #100 only for it to end with Trigon-possessed Raven crashing it and implanting Kory with Trigon's demon seed which all led to Kory breaking up with Dick and returning to Tamaran. In New Titans issue #114 published in September 1994, Dick was waiting for Kory to come see and talk with him but she never showed up as she didn't want Dick confusing things after thinking her life is no longer on Earth even though she still loves him more than he knows. The whole thing reminds me of Marvel's former Editor in Chief Joe Quesada's written One Moment in Time story with Mary Jane leaves Peter which was supposed to explain what happened after One More Day when Peter and Mary Jane's marriage was undone by Mephisto and was apart for 11 years. Mary Jane was written to be weak and that she couldn't deal with Peter Parker being Spider-Man any more. I was afraid that Joe Quesada was going to come up with a retcon that Mary Jane cheated on Peter with her ex-boyfriend Bruce the night before Peter and Mary Jane got married. A few months ago, Nick Spencer brought Peter and Mary Jane back together as a couple in The Amazing Spider-Man issue #1. As a fan that created a facebook page for Peter and Mary Jane's relationship, that makes me very happy. During the period that Dick and Kory's relationship turned into a disaster in August 1993 and they completely ended in September 1994, Peter and Mary Jane had their own problems. Peter had sworn to Mary Jane that he would give up being Spider-Man for awhile and he went back on his word, and Mary Jane was upset about that. Peter was acting all neurotic with his sense of responsibility as Spider-Man, and Mary Jane was stressing out over Peter being Spider-Man and had a cigarette addiction. Her acting career was falling apart. In a comic book page, Mary Jane thinks that Peter didn't come home last night, and she thinks that most wives worry about infidelity but Peter is Spider-Man - he could be dead. Liz kicked Peter and Mary Jane out of their loft. Peter's parents came back into his life, but they end up being androids. After he loses his fake parents, Peter is driven with rage and vengeance and pushes Mary Jane away. May ends up sick in the hospital, and Peter goes nuts that he webs himself up in a cocoon so he cannot be reached. This was heading up into the Death of Aunt May in Amazing Spider-Man issue #400 and the infamous Clone Saga that so many Spider-Man fans hated including me. The only things that I liked about it was Ben Reilly and Mary Jane demonstrating great loyalty and faithfulness as Peter's wife even when Peter was believed to be the clone to the point that she was willing to let Peter kill her when he was under the Jackal's programming which she helped him break. I read those comics when I was in my 20s in the 1990s. Like Dick and Kory, Peter and Mary Jane had their ups and downs with serious problems. There are no comic couples that have perfect relationships. Comic books have quite the soapy element to them. As a person that loves to watch soap operas on television, I actually enjoy that. I just don't care for the love triangles and my favorite characters killed off. When Mary Jane was killed off in an airplane accident in 1999, I couldn't bear reading Spider-Man comics any more.
The disastrous wedding and the breaking up of Dick and Kory's relationship were the results of Batman office taking Dick back from the Titan's office and not having any control of Kory. Before Dick was taken from the Titans office, there was an original plan of a Nightwing mini-series that establishes Dick's greatness among the superhero community. It involved an alien invasion of Earth that included kidnapping Kory. Nightwing would go rescue Kory,he proposes marriage with her accepting,and they get a happy wedding. The Mirage stuff,Kory breaking up with Dick,and Dick's desperate marriage proposal seem to be events that were created to lead up to the disastrous wedding and their breakup. Seeing that Batman office has been degrading Kory into Dick's lustful fling while pushing Barbara as Dick's one true love, I am glad that Batman office doesn't have control of Kory. She may have gotten the Jean Grey treatment. Jean Grey was killed off and stayed dead for a long time in order to push a Scott Summers (Cyclops)/Emma Frost relationship which has resulted in a strong split of Scott relationship fans between Scott/Jean and Scott/Emma just like there is a strong split of Dick relationship fans between Dick/Kory and Dick/Barbara (Batgirl,Oracle).
Dick and Kory did have interactions in the comics after they were broken up. Their relationship was acknowledged in some way or another. In 1996, There was an Else-world comic book mini-series, Kingdom Come that showed Dick and Kory had a daughter named Mar'i who became the superhero, Nightstar. In February 1999, Kingdom Come was followed by the sequel, The Kingdom that had Nightstar in it. In that same month, The Kingdom: Nightstar was released. In the 1999 JLA Titans three issue comic miniseries published from December 1998 to February 1999, Dick and Kory met again for the first time since Kory left Dick to go back to Tamaran when she felt that she no longer belonged on Earth after the attack by Trigon-possessed Raven at their wedding. They re-connected as friends that care about each other.
They were on the same team in The Titans comic book series that was first published on March 1999. Kory ended up leaving the Team to defend her Tamaranean people. She and Dick said goodbye to each other ,and that included them telling each other that they love each other.
When the Teen Titans cartoon first aired on July 2003, The Teen Titans, Volume 3 comic series came out the same month. Kory was a mentor to the Teen Titans in the comic book. She and Dick had interactions in the comic. There was also a comic book series, The Outsiders comic book series that was first released on August 2003. Dick and Kory were fellow members on the Outsiders team, and they had sex in that comic book series that was written by Judd Winick. He was also the writer of the Titan series first published on June 2008 that had Dick and Kory have sex with each other while under the influence of Trigon's child, Lust and then followed by a swimming pool conversation with Kory asking Dick if he loves her in a forever way that they don't need to find excuses with Dick responding with "No." This was after the Teen Titan cartoon show stopped airing. I wondered if this was an attempt to put a deep dagger into the hearts of Dick/Kory fans.
Dick and Kory didn't have any lustful sex outside of love under any other writers. Judd Winick is the same writer that had Selina Kyle (Catwoman) and Bruce Wayne (Batman) have sex on a roof top with their costumes on and without Catwoman knowing Batman's secret identity in the New52 Catwoman comic issues #1 and 2. He was degrading their love into lust. Of course, a lot of Catwoman and Batman fans were upset about the sex because they felt that both were totally out of character as individuals. I was one of them.
Dick and Kory had interactions all the way up to the Teen Titans cartoon series and always had a big fan base that were given ship teases. I definitely wouldn't limit the fan base just to people that grew up watching the Teen Titans cartoons from 2003 to 2007. I am definitely not one of them. I am not even one of the fans that became a fan during the time that they were each other's love interest from 1980 to 1994. I didn't read Teen Titans comics at the time.
I was a Dick/Barbara fan until less than a month ago. I became a Dick/Barbara fan in the late 90s because of the Batman: Animated series. My first exposure to Barbara Gordon/Batgirl was in the New Adventures of Batman and Robin cartoon show in the 1970s when I was a little kid. I am almost 47 years old. The only being that was shown to have a crush on Batgirl in that 1970s Batman/Robin cartoon show was Bat-Mite. I also watched the 1960s Batman TV show and Batman/Robin cartoon series. In the former, there was no romantic interaction between Dick (played by Dick Ward) and Barbara (Yvonne Craig). Barbara was a bit older than Dick in all the shows that I watched before Batman: The Animated series. I was surprised to see a Batgirl and Robin being around the same age, know each other's secret identity and being love interests with each other. I actually liked it. I was a Dick/Barbara fan to the point that I voted for Batgirl - Barbara instead of Koriand'r - Starfire without knowing any comic book history about Kory in a Dick Grayson's True Love poll in CBR's Batman forum that was created. After reading the comics about Kory and her history with Dick, I now regret my vote and wish that I had voted for Kory instead of Barbara.
I became a Dick/Kory fan and now prefer Dick with Kory instead of Barbara less than a month ago after watching Teen Titans: Judas Contract and reading many of the New Teen Titans, Tales of the Teen Titans, and Titans comics from 1980s to 1990s. I have read all of them now. That's how much that I enjoyed reading the New Teen Titans including especially Dick and Kory's romantic relationship and Kory and Donna's sisterly friendship. My favorite Titan of all is now Kory. I actually enjoyed the Dick/Kory romantic relationship because of Kory more than Dick. I really like Kory's character as the alien warrior princess that went through 5 or 6 years of slavery and still has a big heart and becomes a superhero with a motivation to save others from the great emotional and physical pain that she went through as a slave. The Teen Titans cartoon doesn't really touch on any of that, and I wasn't really a fan of that cartoon because of how the Teen Titans were presented more as comedy and with ridiculous Looney Toon- like scenes. They didn't live with civilian identities nor even called each other by their real names. They weren't presented in a serious way like the animated universe of the Batman: Animated Series. I felt like I was too old to be watching those cartoons even though I like cartoons as an adult that is now almost 47 years old. Therefore, I definitely did not become a Teen Titan and Dick/Kory fan because of the Teen Titan cartoons. However, I do understand that the Teen Titan cartoon series helped increase the popularity and iconic status of Dick/Kory which they always had. Robin and Starfire do look cute together in the cartoon series. I am grateful for the cartoon series after recently becoming a Dick/Kory fan. I really liked how Dick and Kory's relationship was presented in Teen Titans: Judas Contract. They had great chemistry with each other, and I would like to see more of their relationship in more DC animated movies that includes a happy wedding that was originally planned for them in the comics.
As for the new upcoming, Titans show
UGH!!!!! (face slap to the forehead and shaking head side ways)
There is comic page where it shows what made Dick fall in love with Kory:
It wasn't Starfire's beauty that made me fall in love with her.....
It was her freedom!
I mean the freedom to feel at home with even her strongest emotions..
The one kind of freedom that Batman wouldn't allow.
That's what I was longing for--
And that's what Kory slowly taught me to embrace!
Their relationship and love was developed slowly and gradually 2 years in the Wolfman run, New Teen Titans. It took Kory getting kidnapped by Komand'r and the Gordanians and taken to the Citadel and her looking like she was dead after being beaten and tortured for Dick to admit his romantic love feelings for Kory and they got into a relationship soon after that.
There was a planned NIGHTWING mini-series planned as far back as 1991; Originally, it was going to be done by Art Thibert. There was even a promo-poster for it in TITANS $ELLOUT SPECIAL. It eventually was scrapped and Nightwing later had a mini series by Dennis O’Neil and Greg Land in 1995.
The Plot: Art Thibert on the Nightwing Mini-Series
I asked Art Thibert about the aborted Nightwing mini-series at the 4th Annual New York International Sci-Fi & Fantasy Creators Convention in 2003. He told me the whole overview.
As the mini-series opened, Starfire confronted Nightwing about ‘where their relationship was heading’. They had been dating for a few years and reached the point in their relationship where it had to take the next big step. Before any decisions were made, an alien invasion threatened the earth, taking Starfire hostage. Nightwing investigated and started formulating a plan to stop the invasion and rescue Starfire.
Meanwhile, the other heroes in the DC Universe learned of the alien threat and mounted a counter-offense. But Batman stopped them from taking any action when he realized Nightwing already had the situation accessed and was confident his former sidekick could handle it on his own.
Nightwing is able to reach the aliens and stop the invasion – as well as rescue Starfire. The mini-series would end with Nightwing cradling Starfire in his arms, emerging from the alien stronghold. A crowd of DC heroes would part to watch Nightwing emerge with Starfire in his arms, having defeated the alien threat. Now reunited with Kory, Nightwing proposes marriage and she accepts.
The mini was geared to establish Nightwing’s ‘coming of age’ as a major, competant hero in the DC Universe. Art Thibert said Marv Wolfman read the overview to the mini-series and approved it. Unfortunately, there was a major editorial shift and Thibert was offered a very lucrative offer from MARVEL to do CABLE. With NIGHTWING in doubt, Thibert opted to take the CABLE assignment, much to the loss of Titans fans.
Wizard Interview:
Art Thibert on the Nightwing Mini-Series
Art Thibert: I’ve never pledged my allegiance to a company, but to a person or an editor – someone I liked or felt comfortable with. Mike Carlin, the Superman editor, is a person I’ve always looked up to, and he did a lot for me in my early career. That’s why I agreed to stay on the Superman books, even if it’s only covers. I really like Bob Harras; I think he does a tremendous job. I really like Jonathan Peterson at DC, with whom I’ve had a long-lasting relationship – even though I’ve never had anything come out from his office. That’s why I’m doing Nightwing for him, coming out in December.
Wizard: As long as you brought it up, is Nightwing still in process?
Art Thibert:It’s still in process, now; after I finish X-Men #13, then Pamela Winesette, who is co-writing with me, and I will be starting on it full time. We already have the basic plot break-down done for the four issues; next I’ll start penciling, then we’ll start scripting together.
Wizard: This is your first real writing assignment?
Art Thibert: Yeah – I get back into pencilling – and somebody I’m writing, too! Am I a nut or what?
Wizard: Depends on how good you think you are.
Art Thibert: We’ll see.
Wizard: You’re tying into a line of books that have always been viewed as pretty writer-driven. Mary Wolfman has been the motivating force on the Titans material for so long.
Art Thibert: He still is. At the beginning, I was a little skeptical, because what Pam and I were proposing was a plan to really shake up the character of Nightwing. At one point, I went out to lunch with Marv, to get his OK and his blessing. He was all for it; he was really excited about it. I hope we live up to the tradition.
Wizard: What draws you to Nightwing?
Art Thibert: It was a major challenge. Jonathan said he had an idea to launch his whole Titans invasion, and asked if I’d be interested in Nightwing. I said I’d get back to him, because I had to figure out if I had any affection for him and what I could bring to him. As I talked to Pam about it, we started coming up with ideas; it was amazing how we started going nuts with plans for a character I thought I had no thoughts about. So I told Jonathan I’d do it if Pam and I could write it.
He wasn’t sure and asked us to send in a sample script and he thought it was great. It was official this time last year, so it’s been a year in the making. We got carte blanche to mess with the character – new costumes for both him and Starfire. Basically, we want to redefine Nightwing for the ‘90s. Bring him out of the “disco Elvis” look, at Pam calls it. We’ll give him some high-tech equipment, things like that.
Wizard: With the high profile you’ll get from the X-Men and then the Nightwing project, how do you envision your future?
Art Thibert: Marvel has offered me the ongoing Cable series, to start in the summer of ‘93, scripted by Fabian Nicieza. That gives us time to get some material in drawer, so to speak.
Wizard: Do you ever see yourself in the same position as the Image founders were when they made the jump.?
Art Thibert: It’s hard to say. For me, if I’m happy with what I’m doing, that’s what counts. The Nightwing series is a labor of love and I have an affection for Cable. If it works out that I get to that level and the readers like what I’m doing, it could happen. I’m just doing it for a kick right now. I don’t think of it in those terms.
Editor Jonathan Peterson on the Nightwing Mini-Series:
TTC: Were the creators lined up or did you seek them out?
JP: I basically called in favors. I called up friends, and one of the people I called was Art Thibert. I met Art when he first came to New York, [when he was] first breaking into comics. In fact, one of his earliest pencil jobs was for Barbara Kesel back when she was editing both New Teen Titans and Titans Spotlight, if you remember that title. Art drew an issue centering on Aqualad. In the case of Art, I really wanted him to be on “my team,” so to speak.
Here is – or I should say “was” – my comic editorial philosophy. I say “was” since now I’m working in Hollywood towards other goals these days. But basically, when I was editing, my core belief was 1) what I said before. Have fun. If you have fun it’ll show in the books, and that’s good. 2) To have fun… work with people you like. I’d rather work with a lesser talent that I can get along with and try to editorially shape or groom than to work with a “big name” comic star who’s such a headache, you hate going into the office.
Art was doing more stuff for Marvel, but he started at DC, so I called him up to say, “What would get you back to DC?” and I knew he was a big Batman fan, so I dangled the idea of Nightwing as part of that. I said to Art, “I have an idea. We’ve given Deathstroke his own book, and now I want Nightwing to get the next spin-off.” Well, Art loved the idea and asked if he and his wife Pamela, who wanted to write and work with Art, could have the book, and I said, “Dude! Why do you think I’m calling you!” and he said, “Oh man, count me in! Is this gonna be cool with Marv though? I hear he’s pretty protective about the characters.” I said “Well, he’s really having fun these days. He’s a real team player. And no, I haven’t told him yet, but I will now!” [laughs]
So I sat down with Art, and we discussed what we would do. Looking at my master game plan, I basically told Art that I wanted to push Dick and Kory along, that it would be his job to do that, in an initial miniseries. Art went off to talk to Pamela, and came back and said “How far can we push them?” I said “How do you mean?” and it was Art and Pamela who then said “Well, can we marry them, so the end of our trial mini has some real weight?” And I just lit up over that. I said “Yes! That’s it. That’s what we need to do. Go all out! Good plan!”
[…]
TTC: So you tossed out these ideas and weaved them together, knowing the endpoint was Deathstroke killing Jericho. A bit of reverse plotting?
JP: We actually even knew one step further. We were actually ultimately building to New Titans #100, which was two steps beyond. Phase One was “Titans Hunt.” We kill Jericho, get a real Wildebeest and some other new characters like Pantha. Phase Two is dealing with the idea [that] they are mature. Let’s make the New Titans kick-ass adults. That was when I turned to Art as the lynchpin, to do a Nightwing book. As part of that, I wanted to push the Dick and Kory romance along. I thought that had gotten too stale. I mean, it was just out there, but not really going anywhere. So to me, it was like telling Nightwing and Kory, “Crap or get off the pot.” [laughs] We wanted the endpoint to be that Nightwing would actually marry Starfire in New Titans # 100, because we could do that. There was a Robin in Batman, so it didn’t matter. I thought it would be like marrying Reed and Sue in Fantastic Four. That was a momentous occasion, so let’s build to it.
So I turned to Art. I wanted him to do a Nightwing six issue mini-series right around New Titans # 93. It’ll ship with New Titans up until New Titans # 99, at which point Art could have Nightwing proposing to Starfire in the last issue, and then issue # 100 would be the wedding issue. That was endpoint two.
Then there was phase three. I wanted to get the Teen Titans back, so I explained my whacked out idea. I really wanted Robin, Wonder Girl, Kid Flash, Changeling, Raven, Starfire and Cyborg back to what they were originally, so I wanted to do an alternate dimension or timeline, and I turned to Kevin and said “You get to launch an all-new Titans book and design them from the ground up.” Not only that, but this alternate universe would have an alternate young Robin, and alternate young Starfire and all the rest. The plan for Team Titans was a secret one. With the first Team Titans Annual, or at the end of the first 12 issues, I told Kevin he would then be relaunching the Teen Titans with alternate versions of the core-seven members.
I guess when she openly tells you she would screw everyone she cares about. It kind of makes you not want to marry her or care about her.
What you typed makes no sense
She never said any of that crap
I don't know if you have a hard time reading between the lines or if you are a virgin. But she literally and clearly did just say that. If a chick told me something like what she just said, I would be turned all the way off aswell.
She literally just mentioned orgies, gangbangs and sleeping with everyone she has the slightest emotional attachment with in the most passive aggressive way possible. It's not even out of context interpretation, she literally just said she's a thot.
I guess when she openly tells you she would screw everyone she cares about. It kind of makes you not want to marry her or care about her.
What you typed makes no sense
She never said any of that crap
I don't know if you have a hard time reading between the lines or if you are a virgin. But she literally and clearly did just say that. If a chick told me something like what she just said, I would be turned all the way off aswell.
She literally just mentioned orgies, gangbangs and sleeping with everyone she has the slightest emotional attachment with in the most passive aggressive way possible. It's not even out of context interpretation, she literally just said she's a thot.
@glaucus: Fair enough. But.. she mentioned that right after they slept with eachother and Dick had to elaborate on love being between "Two" people. Not multiple.
I guess when she openly tells you she would screw everyone she cares about. It kind of makes you not want to marry her or care about her.
What you typed makes no sense
She never said any of that crap
I don't know if you have a hard time reading between the lines or if you are a virgin. But she literally and clearly did just say that. If a chick told me something like what she just said, I would be turned all the way off aswell.
She literally just mentioned orgies, gangbangs and sleeping with everyone she has the slightest emotional attachment with in the most passive aggressive way possible. It's not even out of context interpretation, she literally just said she's a thot.
I know this topic is old, but this is not the real reason they broke up. That was just for clarifying her love for him after that political marriage forced by her parents. She said it is ok to have multiple lovers on Tamarean but she only loved Dick at that time (and still now). They accepted that and still in love for a long time after that until the crashed wedding. Even before the breakup, Dick was so desperate to convince her to stay with him.
Nowadays comics writers like to shit on this pairing in order to prop Barbara Gordon so much that it's easy for readers to misinterpret they were never in love.
@mcflicky: I'm not here to argue the childish argument "who's hotter". That's not the reason they broke up either. Go read the actual comics (New Titans 1988 - 114) where Dick desperately anticipated to meet Starfire for a rooftop date to save their falling relationship but she ignored and left Earth (it's Starfire that broke up the relationship not him).
Let's not forget their relationship lasted for decades from 1980 to 1994. That's not something because of "oh you are not hot enough, I'm leaving".
Now Titans are Justice League and for first time Starfire and Barbara aka The Oracle are on same team. Dick and Kory have not discuss anything in relationship but Dick is with Babs made clear from his Nightwing series. There is awkward but it look like Starfire want to be friends with her
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Maybe writers will addresses relationship later or just leave it alone
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