@foamborn:

You can pick up a pen knife and draw blood from Diana, it's not hard. She has no more resistance to piercing weapons than you do and Cheetah's fingers end with piercing weapons. Why do you think she has the bracers? She's not Superman, bullets will kill her if they get through. Cheetah tagged Flash by jumping out of a bush behind him and slitting an artery in his leg when he wasn't looking, and then again when his speed was hampered by, you know, only having one fully functional leg to run with. And it's hardly like this is the first time in the New 52 she's jobbed. Steve Trevor beat her in the FE A.R.G.U.S tie-in with a right hook.

Ares is nowhere near Odin's level and Trigon has always been far more powerful than him.

One showing is Cheetah vs Wonder Woman back when Diana could be overpowered by the weight of a tree, one showing is an image of Cheetah fighting Diana that omits the fact that Diana then beat Cheetah into a coma even though she was exhausted from days of fighting and poisoned during the battle, one showing is a mutated, enhanced Cheetah, one showing is Cheetah slashing Flash after first slashing an artery in his leg while his attention was focused elsewhere, one showing is Cheetah beating Firehawk (dunno why this is impressive, but ok) while the latter was an Anti-Life zombie, and one showing is Cheetah pulling out a new power against Superman that every subsequent writer ignored once Johns was done justifying why two whole Justice League issues had to revolve around a Wonder Woman character. You didn't post Diana's other fights with Cheetah --- like the one where she was cursed and her entire hand disintegrated in a fight against an extra-powerful Cheetah, but she won anyway. Or the time when Genocide beat Diana so badly she could barely stand up straight, and she still managed to beat Cheetah in that condition. Or the time after Urzkartaga restored her powers and Diana just slapped the sh!t out of her anyway.

Apart from Bane, those other two are just random fodder, not street levelers.

What consistent showings do you think Cheetah has? Virtually her entire history is people of all tiers and power levels beating the crap out of her.

@saren: Key phrase "at his best" when full powered. He still is far more powerful than Wonder Woman and only plot can beat him. It would be pretty silly of me to think Ares is more powerful than a demon that has destroyed universes, don't you think?

@agent41: Yeah you're right but it is pretty clear DC writers doesn't care much about Cheetah for the past two decades. The New 52 was suppose to be a change for the better. All it has done is divide fanbases and made people hate on characters for unnecessary reasons.

@agent41: That is why I have been disappointed with the New 52 development so far. Valid point,it isn't a big issue unless it happens constantly. I don't like when some people try to use those type of showings as feats when they're clearly bad writing.

@zhurong: He-Cheetah beat Superman, I know he was stronger than B.Minerva but he couldn't have been a lot stronger than her. Cheetah's got all the makings of a formidable opponent for Wonder Woman, someone against whom she can truly show off all her skill.

Cheetah is neither as good or as bad as people make her out to be,she obviously shouldn't lose to Batman level characters that's PIS,but she shouldn't be able to hang with Superman or Flash either,that's equally PIS.

As of now she's an avatar for a goddess.. I admit I would've expected her design to be more practical.. but I guess they really were going for the lifelike look.

@entropy_aegis: Diana once commented that she was too fast for her..

@entropy_aegis: bullsh!t, she's strong enough to take a punch from Superman, she's faster, skilled, and doesn't hold anything back. It does (or should) take a great deal of skill to deal with someone like that which Superman doesn't possess. Cheetah could so easily blind him and then slash his throat

Cheetah can downright kill Superman, not a smidgen of bullshit would be necessary to make that happen. Superman might be the strongest superhero in the world but he doesn't match up well against Cheetah. It's a job for Wonder Woman.

In terms of durability, I'd say Cheetah's strong enough to take blows from Wonder Woman level characters, but fairly weaker than Diana. Strength is not the reason why Cheetah's a threat to Diana. It's only her speed and claws. Other than that, Diana's beaten the crap out of her even when she was hurt. It's only natural though, she's a villain.

She has had a lot of inconsistency though.

@saint_sophie: @agent41: Fast for her not Flash or Superman,who by virtue of their showings have always been much faster than WW and even if she has the speed to compete what difference does it make? Flash and Supes have a lot more than just speed,Cheetah is a high end mid tier at best(Iron Man level,and even here I'm being generous because I honestly think Tony would thrash her as well).

Yeah and Bane can just lift him overhead and snap his back...back to Earth now.

@saren: She didn't do anything to Bane either as I'm sure you're well aware,he was venom less and managed to restrain her long enough for the SS to manipulate Cheetah's allies to turn on her. Bane was fine.

Interesting..........

@agent41: No disrespect or any form of rudeness, but this was interesting.

The defending and the bashing of cheetah.

IMO arrow shooting her is not PIS, blunt force is different from piercing force, tanking punches from superman, thor or hulk is different from tanking arrows from amazons, assault riffle bullets, laser guns, because they are totally different, the punches are blunt force while the others(except the lasers) are piercing force.

Besides am just talking based on what i know about the suituation.

She got the best of him in a surprise attack. In character Cheetah may take it, but bloodlusted and if Clark makes good use of all the other abilities he has, he wins handily.

Still, I don't know how this came to be when we're talking about Cheetah and Arrow.

@entropy_aegis: If you teach Usain Bolt a martial art and give him a claw then put him in a cage with Pudzianowski, my money's on Bolt. Feats don't mean squat. She's swifter than Superman and an agile, talented martial artist. Superman would have to land a punch faster than she can stab him in the eye.

@agent41: His strength is strong enough to one or two shot her. And I'd say their close in speed. i can see the claws getting in the way though.

@agent41: Cheetah's got this. Look at Radwanska ( a tennis player ) she's incredibly weak compared to modern female tennis players that strike the ball as hard as men yet she outmaneuvers them, bagels them, it takes someone like Sharapova with a great deal of power plus skill to beat Radwanska. Power alone, without skill, doesn't always cut the mustard.

@agent41: Yeah I know, Superman doesn't match up well against Cheetah and let's cut the crap, he might've raced the Flash once or twice, flown at 10 times the speed of light or something but we know he's not supposed to be that fast. PIS goes both ways

Exactly, totally agree.

@agent41: heard it was a back shot, and she is not wally or barry that would react to projectiles immediately it touches them subconciously.

Yes she should react to it, but if it was a sucker shot or just a back shot, she can't react to it.

No, it's not. Cheetah was hit by the dart too but it's specifically mentioned that it had no effect on her because she's not mortal. It's also specifically mentioned that Diana was reeling from the strain of having to deal with a host of drugs and poisons over several days, and that the dart left her dazed and weakened while Cheetah was fresh and revitalized.

No, according to me Cheetah is a two-bit chump and anyone who thinks her track record justifies calling her a powerhouse or a significant threat to someone like Superman or Flash or even Wonder Woman has no idea what they're talking about. Wonder Woman had to be weakened in various ways (or Cheetah had to amped in various ways) nearly every time she fought Cheetah pre-Flashpoint for Minerva to stand a chance, and Diana still stomped her nearly every time. Cheetah is not capable of taking 3 full powered hits from Diana. Three full powered hits from Diana would put her in the hospital, if they didn't just kill her outright. The last time Diana hit her three times in a row, Cheetah was left comatose in a pool of her own blood. The only time Cheetah was ever fast enough to blitz Diana was when Diana could barely stand up straight after being thrashed by Genocide (and still managed to beat Cheetah anyway), and the fights where Cheetah lost to Diana are really only proof that she should be irritating some lesser hero like Mary Marvel instead of taking up valuable space in A-list books.

Unless you're talking about the Godwave, which isn't part of Ares's power, Ares at his best would still get his ass kicked by Odin. He's at best a planetary entity. Odin has wrestled Galactus and destroyed galaxies across the universe just by punching Surtur in the face.

Seemed that way to me, but you people were complaining about Ares getting killed by Trigon like some other result was expected.

Bruce Lee had a much greater degree and variety of skills than Muhammad Ali ever did, but Lee himself said Ali would destroy him in a fight simply because he was so much bigger and stronger. Frankie Campbell was swifter than Max Baer, and when they fought Baer boxed like a complete madman because he was angry about the crowd jeering at him. That edge in speed and technique didn't help Campbell, in fact he was killed during that fight because an enraged Baer punched him so ferociously his brain stem snapped loose from his skull. If you watch MMA matches regularly you can find a whole bunch of fights where swift and skilled fighters get crushed by stronger, less technical opponents. If you make Anderson Silva fight an angry silverback gorilla, they'll be sending what's left of him back to his family in a matchbox.

Contact sports and tennis are different. A scenario where two people try to beat each other into bloody submission features more variables than the force and positioning behind striking an inanimate object. Comics are fiction; in a comic book Nightwing can stomp Killer Croc most nights without a problem, whereas in reality if someone of Croc's size and strength went up against someone with Nightwing's abilities, Dick's much greater speed and skill would do absolutely nothing to stop Croc from popping his head like a grape. Speed and skill can give you an edge, sure, but in contact sports and even within the same weight categories an opponent's greater size and strength can easily make up for those deficiencies.

You'd lose that money, because Pudz would crush Bolt and make him eat that claw regardless of whatever martial art you choose to teach him. Bolt can run faster, but Pudzianowski hits faster, hits harder, hits smarter and knows how to take a bad hit in turn. Bolt is a skinny Jamaican with a runner's frame; meanwhile, Pudzianowski is one of the strongest men on Earth to the point where there's maybe 4 or 5 guys on his level out of 3 billion. If you put Bolt in a cage with him, someone should have you arrested for conspiracy to commit murder.

Cheetah has never been faster than Superman. Clark's most mediocre speed feats far exceed everything Cheetah has ever done in her entire publishing history, and she's no greater a martial artist than he is. Superman's heat vision tore Doomsday apart when he cut loose; he could reduce Cheetah to a blazing pile of bones just by tossing her an angry look.

Every single word of this is false

Couldn't remember those issues of SS, thanks.

@saren: Considering the guy has killed Highfather, made Circe look like nothing at full power, and broke through the Source Wall (something that even Superman can't do), I would say he is more powerful than given credit for. Speak for yourself because I never said he could beat Trigon or expected a different outcome.

I'm not sure how the first two things are problems for Odin, and Superman has broken into the Source Wall several times. I'm not sure why breaking into the Source Wall is supposed to be a feat or why you think Superman couldn't do it, all you have to do to get in is touch it, and it's not like it's made of some indestructible substance considering Supergirl and Cyborg-Superman have torn off pieces of it.

FoamBorn complained that Trigon killing Ares made Wonder Woman's villains look "tiny", and you said "Yup but sadly we can do nothing but watch". See how I got there?

@saren: Of course Odin can do them. Are you suggesting that I stated he wouldn't? Not impressed.

She said "DC" make her villains look tiny not Trigon but you ignored that. Not seeing what you did except misinterpret a post. I'm done with this thread so keep arguing with Wonder Woman fans all day. I got better things to do.

No, I'm suggesting Ares has apparently done something that convinced you he's on Odin's level, and those aren't it.

I didn't ignore anything, it's obvious she meant DC. Why would anyone think she meant Trigon?

@saren: I doubt Bruce Lee would run into a lot of trouble to slay Muhammad Ali with a claw like Vega's on both hands. With blades involved, Muhammad's strength advantage just goes out the window. Cyborg stuffed her face with winstrol and outmuscled Gina but in a boxing match there are rules in place and obviously no deadly weapons which in a hypothetical encounter between Superman and Cheetah would not be the case. She would go for the kill and that would immediately force Superman into a defensive mindframe. He'd better put his hands around his wee wee if he wants to keep it. If someone assaults you with a knife, no matter how strong you are, you're f*cked and that is the truth of the matter.

Also feats don't mean anything to me, we all know across the board feats are inconsistent and that Superman is not supposed to be as fast as the Flash, otherwise we might as well retire the JL and rename Superman the Allpurposeman. At the end of day, Cheetah could seriously wound Superman and no amount of PIS would be necessary to pull that off. That's more than you can say about Batman taking out the Justice league

@zhurong: I don't know squat about Trigon but what I do know is that no matter how powerful he is, I don't wanna see that happen to one of Wonder Woman's strongest villains because it totally depreciates them. There were a lot of people in that scene and no one else got disemboweled

Sure, if you give Bruce Lee a fictional weapon whose blades are longer than his entire forearm, the dynamic changes somewhat. What happens if Muhammad Ali starts shooting fire from his eyes?

Cheetah going for the kill clearly gives her the edge. As we all know, Superman only fights people who want to bruise him a little, right? Minerva had better put her hands around her tail if she doesn't want Clark to tug on it and accidentally rip out her entire spine. It would be the truth of the matter if the knives weren't so small they had no chance of ever reaching one of your major organs, or if your physiology wouldn't just heal away all the damage Cheetah could do anyway. Kryptonian hearts only beat twice a minute, so it's not like Cheetah's going to bleed Clark out before the wound simply closes. It's why he didn't die when Wonder Woman slit his throat.

Superman's not as fast as the Flash. He's just faster than Cheetah, because you don't have to be as fast as the Flash for that. Any Flash would run circles around Minerva. At the end of the day Superman could burn Cheetah alive with a look and no amount of PIS would be necessary to pull that off.

I, too, thought that Batman needing a fancy suit to beat up the Justice League was bad writing. He should have just falcon-kicked Wonder Woman again. Don't you hate it when they pander to fans of those other characters by making Bruce seem so dependent on artificial things?

@agent41: Even before Flashpoint Diana was weak and still beat her. And I'm talking about Current versions. Diana as usual beat her when she wasn't holding back. And she's weaker than current Clark by a large margin. So a couple hits should ko her or leave her hospitalized. Or a little heat vision could turn her into a pile of ashes..

@saren:

Bruce Lee had a much greater degree and variety of skills than Muhammad Ali ever did

I doubt this. Bruce Lee's supposed skill was largely untested and runs on the hype train. There's little to suggest it could reliably compete with professional martial-artists even of a similar weight.