Kaido Vs Shippuden

@maulsmacker said:

@kajin_style said:

@maulsmacker said:

@kajin_style said:

@maulsmacker said:

you can just use the moon split scene, the moon diameter is 3400km~ and by the scene you can easily calculate the moon cut to be 74 km, panels after the fea are worthless, Toneri is planning to drop the moon on Earth, there is no reason for him to let the moon drift apart so he can just bring it back, I don't care if 74lm sounds absurd to you, these characters are moon-planet lvl, Toneri is passively moving the moon at Mach speed, sounds absurd, is happening. If a verse is powerful, these things are common.

the cut was also so big Kakashi saw it from Earth itself.

if the 74km calc is to be taken, then the moon split is above moon busting because the moon halves being moved 74km in seconds is far more impressive than just busting a moon.

You mean this split moon scene? https://imgur.com/ONYz7lo That's not 74km apart lol.

Kakashi has Sharigan eyes so those see further and better so he's a bad reference point.

It's still not above moon busting, no matter what. Piccolo would say differ.

Nah, this is 74km

the one you're posting is like 5m, because Toneri would not let the moon completely split apart as that ruins his plan and plot.

Hokage Kakashi doesn't have sharigan, wtf are you talking about? he has the eyes of a fit 40 year old, and he saw it from Earth.

Mathematically, it's above moon busting.

Yeah.. that 74km moon split picture is the only one with that distance and is the outlier. Every other scene with others near the split has it being much smaller. This is more of an artist rendition of what is happening than an accurate representation. Otherwise the line be too small. Infact there was a thorough discussion on this in the vsbattle forums: https://vsbattles.com/threads/revisiting-toneris-moon-split.118749/

Oh my bad. I forgot he lost the sharigan. lol

Wrong, because the novel is the only literary source we've on this and the novel directly shows us that Kakashi could see the cut from Earth, meaning the cut Needs to be huge otherwise it won't be visible from earth, so big cut is supported by the initial visual AND the novel as the literary source.

Its a tiny moon.

@maulsmacker: and? Absolutely nothing suggests this and even if they did theres still no evidence they were Nerfed in any capacity

@edgelord91: so losing Hagoromo chakra halves won't affect them in any way?

@maulsmacker: considering nothing suggest so and they are stated stronger no

@edgelord91: So Hagoromo is fodder?

@maulsmacker: no but even IF they lost his chakra and abilities absolutely nothing suggest they lost the increase in power and it's flat out stated the cast got stronger

@maulsmacker: also do you know how to contact the site managers? I keep getting 403 blocked.

@edgelord91: Im still waiting on the castgot stronger scan. Tell me then, you think the loss of chakra has nothing to do with loss power, aka, do you think chakra and power are not related at all?

just contact fandom staff imo

10x increase in strength would honestly make no difference but 10x in speed is just insane upgrade.

If characters are relative in speed before, after 10x buff one he will be impossible to catch.

@maulsmacker: HOW? and I already gave the scan confirming kakashi is stronger. Naruto also trained in that time and has feats showing his improvement

@edgelord91: Kakashi, a single character with a defined reason on why he grew stronger =/= the cast, he grew stronger because he let go of sharingan, which made his chakra pool higher and thus he got stronger and faster but lost hax. You can just search up fandom support email and email them etc.

@maulsmacker: literally stated on panel he grew stronger over the YEARS because of training. Which Naruto also did ON SCREEN with the feats backing it up

@edgelord91: unless he became astronomicely stronger the gap between his bsm mode and so6p mode enhanced by yin/yang release is too much dont see him making it up especially when his feats say other wise

@dogsrus: yes he did get stronger and yes the feats make this clear.

War arc BSM took on a moon/planet level character and got folded.

The last BSM took on a moon/planet level character and did the stomping.

Wait... thos pills give him 8x His stats?! In that case he destroys the verse.

@dogsrus: literally stated everyone got stronger after the war.

@edgelord91: Post the statement of everyone and not kakashi, Kakashi in the same statement you're using is literally explained to get stronger because his chakra pool increased.

Literally Stated his COMBAT power has increased over the YEARS of training. Something Naruto is also shown to do onscreen during the last with the feats to back it up (creates and tosses rasenshuriken in BASE, tanks his own chakra blowing up while previously he would've been killed by a biju bomb without any power ups, mid diffing toneri who even low balling is far stronger than war arc BSM and is hyped as the strongest opponent pre boruto, not to mention Naruto himself makes it clear that he still retained six paths mode and it's abilities prior to using baryon mode via the lava rasenahuriken)

Now I'm still waiting for evidence to suggest Naruto and Sasuke got weaker after their battle. They clearly weren't nerfed after losing the seals

@edgelord91: consistently, you've refused to move on from "seals didn't make them weaker!" and refused to discuss the actual mechanics behind your implications.

Kakashi got stronger because his amount of chakra substantially increased, Kakashi was always a prodigy on par with the likes of Minato, Itachi and Orochimaru. Sharingan had always nerfed his chakra reserves, as handling the sharingan in a non-uchiha body is difficult and after one fight he needed days of bed rest because of how taxing the sharingan was, that's why a 27 year old Kakashi is, forget Minato lvl, not even stronger than Mei, but once he had lost the Sharingan, it logically means he has access to higher reserves of chakra and with that chakra he reinvented himself as a new fighter. There is a mechanical reason behind why Kakashi became stronger, the greater reserves of chakra made him stronger, he was able to utilize those reserves via training.

in Naruto's case, you're not making a case of growth, you're acknowledging they shouldn't have Hagoromo's chakra halves after Valley of the end but you believe that wouldn't make them weaker, the logical conclusion from that stance is that Hagoromo is fodder to Naruto and Sasuke, but you refuse to make that commitment too. You talk about throwing rasenshuriken in base, something EOS Naruto never attempted, like Base EOS Naruto is below Sage Naruto by your conception behind the rasenshuriken throwing logic. Taking your own chakra exploding is something I can't quantify in relation to any other character in the series.

Funny isn't it? at no point in this conversation, Have I suggested that war arc BSM Naruto from Juubito fight is above Last Naruto, but you talk about it anyway? Toneri was the strongest enemy in an era where Madara, Kaguya, Obito were all functionally dead, what does that amount to? who is an enemy in the Shinobi world at that point? random criminal #952949? Reckon Toneri's stronger than that.

annnnnnnnnnnnnnd we're back at the seals! debate and advance the conversation, don't just repeat yourself until your opponent loses interest.

@maulsmacker: kakashi is literally stated to have gotten stronger because of years of training. Not because losing his Sharigan (which would only reduce the rate he depleted it not his actual reserves) know Naruto received another half of kurama on top of also training for years.

Toneri was promoted as the strongest enemy yet and we know for a fact Naruto and Sasuke retained the new powers hagaromo gave them.

All EVIDENCE says they got stronger.

So instead of constantly dodging the question actually provide EVIDENCE they got weaker or lost the amp hagoromo gave them.

@edgelord91: affectively, his chakra reserves increased, because no chakra went into maintaining the Sharingan and his chakra depleted at a slower rate, thus he had more chakra to utilise, thus he became stronger, more chakran= more power.

No? there is no statement of the strongest enemy ever for Toneri, your own scan just says strongest enemy, which just means strongest for the era he was in, no different than whitebeard being the strongest man or Kaido being the strongest creature, this don't include people who died before.

you're welcome to present any evidence in the case of Naruto and Sasuke implyg they got stronger.

I'm not dodging the question, you've already conceded that they lost the chakra Hagoromo gave them at valley of the end, it's on you to make one of the two commtments from here on , either say they lost the chakra and got weaker, say chakra has no correlation to power, or say Hagoromo chakra is so fodder it's irrelevant that their power isn't affected a bit by it. Only if you make one of these three commitments would the conversation move forward.

@maulsmacker: not the same thing. Hagaromo was a chakra amp while kurama is more chakra. Not to mention you still have yet to prove they lost that amp in the first place.(Which given all the evidence against it you probably CAN'T)

As for kakashi literally stated on panel he got stronger over years of training. And his reserves increasing because he lost his sharigan literally makes no sense at all. Picture his chakra as a bubbler. Now picture it with a hole.(The sharigan) If I patch the hole but still take out a cup of water (using his standard amount of jutsu) every day does that actually change the amount of water in the tank? NO. It just depletes slower than when the hole was present.

@edgelord91: prove they kept Hagoromo chakra after they ended every bit of their chakra on Valley of the end? how do you finish every bit of chakra you have but not finish every bit of chakra you have? also, statement of Kurama having more chakra and power than Hagoromo too btw.

I don't do false picturing, but imagine you gain $15,000 a month, but $12,000 goes into maintaining your health (sharingan) and you're left with $3,000, your health issues are fixed and you've $15,000 again, your income remained the same, but your quality of life and usable money increased by 5 times, same thing for Kakashi.

@maulsmacker: as I already explained they clearly retained there new powers and Naruto flat out says he still has six paths mode. Proof they lost it now?

Your comparison doesn't take into account usage

@edgelord91: Proof I said they lost Six Path Sage Mode.

@maulsmacker: you've literally been arguing they lost the six paths boost this entire time