Saturn vs Sage Madara

Pasting Edo Madara is meaningless, his durability is not that high, plus nothing says Madara is close to his glory days, by feats Madara who was revived oneshotted something that completely restrained Edo Madara, then he got a 20× boost or atleast 10× boost via perfect sage mode and he still wasn't alive Madara level strong, Alive Madara clears an army of Edo Madara rlly.

@pizzagod342:

Juubi laser is impressive

That's an anime filler. This is Jubi's laser in the manga:

7 mountain-busting. Not so impressive

@rolt: Both the blast and the aftermath dwarfed those mountains

More impressive then Sanji

Why does Comicvine portray Madara as this physical behemoth, when Kishimoto did not and his strength feats are absolute garbage (if they exist that is)?

Sai tanked Madara's physicals without injuries

Apart from getting pasted by Tsunade, cloaked Lee kicked him in half and Kurama's cloak is 3x amp.

A punch from Kuma would also turn Madara to red mist if it hits his body. He's a glass cannon like Saturn.

@rolt: 7 mountain busting is very impressive.

@rolt: Using weaker versions of Madara while not addressing a feat that's been brought up for the Madara in question isn't a good debate tactic.

Kuma is not replicating the combined force of all the Tailed Beasts.

The only thing Saturn has going for him at this point is his hax ability which is seemingly a TK technique to incapacitate, however we don’t know the limits of it so far and are only aware it can be broken by him getting injured or distracted. His regeneration is good but he hasn’t healed anything aside from basic wounds.

It’s still too early for him to be involved in battles. At least wait for the next few chapters.

Saturn's TK is cool and all but Limbo is a perfect counter.

@maulsmacker: edo Madara was fine after being hit by temari(damaged the 3rd raikage), and after being hit by Tsunade and the raikage in their base states which is impressive.

Tobirama(who made the jutsu and was also revived) stated they were "almost at full power" even with alive Madara his physicals aren't that impressive. He only stunned the biju and got his arm ripped off despite his Susano

@nwname:

Kind of a pointless comparison considering Sakura has better strength than both purely by scaling too. Sakura physicals > Tsunade's >> Madara's.

Not really the prevalent belief in the fanbase...

@edgelord91: he destroyed the jutsu that restrained the ten tails and were one of Hashirama's strongest techniques with a hand raise in alive, and that Madara was likely dozens of times weaker than EMS Madara.

Tobirama's comment is okay, but it doesn't apply to Hashirama and Madara as they're beyond the Edo Tensei technique entirely.

@pizzagod342:

Naruto was fine from that

No he wasn't he lost half his tails and gassed out of Bijuu mode soon after, this in spite Juubi's laser first needing to overcome his and Bee's TBB barrage. Bijuu mode Naruto doesn't scale to the V1 Juubi at all.

Juubi laser is impressive

Anime inflates it first of all, and regardless it's like multi mountain to island, why is that even worth mentioning against current Sanji?

The Shinobi alliance and Naruto were so close to the Juubi that it could physically attack them. They were definitely close to shockwave

The Juubi is like mountain sized so it doesn't need to be point blank to physically attack them. And even if they were at point blank range so what? They are still human sized characters getting hit by a mountain sized shockwave at least. I am sure you are not trying to suggest fodder Shinobi amped by a small portion of BM Naruto's chakra can tank the full power of one of the V2 Juubi's stronger techniques, when we already know BM Naruto < V1 Juubi alone.

Edo Madara’s durability was inconsistent

No version of Madara pre Juudara has anything to suggest they can tank a Juubi attack without Susanoo.

Edo Madara’s durability was inconsistent

Don't see how, you can knock down physically stronger characters off their feet if you take them by surprise but anyway it doesn't support the scaling you were going for.

Juubi's V1 laser overpowered both Bee and Naruto's TBB barrage and still had enough power to deal significant damage to both (like losing half their tails).

That kind of damage never happened when Madara's Limbo hit the Bijuus, even though Madara took them off guard and he didn't need to first overpower any TBB barrage.

Juubi V1 laser >>>> Sage Madara physicals, not that multi mountain-island lvl V1 laser is impressive compared to current Sanji anyway.

@maulsmacker: I personally attributed that to his revival since there are instances of jutsu affecting Edo's differently but fair enough

Edo Madara is not that much weaker than his Living self, and he was in his Living form when he attacked Sai...which the fodder tanked. What feat? If you mean the Deity Gate thing, it got debunked a while ago in other threads.

Nope, when I go look up the fight clips I only see him using Universal Pull and a boulder to make a TSB 6tail Naruto was trying to form, explode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmoVa_CAK-0 <-- at 2min mark. Pain did not get caught in the ensuing explosion. You see the explosion going off and him at 2:32, ducking back into the ground for cover from the shockwaves.

Maybe you can find it?

@kajin_style: Feat in the manga

He wasn’t hit by it but he was right next to it when it went off

Well I'll be damn. One person did survive a Bijuu bomb. I can nitpick it, but naw, you are correct. Someone did tank it. Finally!

Not even a TBB from a complete Bijuu lol.

@shirso:

Juubi V1 laser >>>> Sage Madara physicals, not that multi mountain-island lvl V1 laser is impressive compared to current Sanji anyway.

This does not really work for several reasons. First, nothing really suggests that Sage Madara went all out against Bijus. There is vast gap between Bijus themselves, between Kurama and say Matatabi, yet they all suffered simmialr amount of damage, which shows that Madara only used as much force as needed to get job done, just like he did with Sai. None of that tells us how strong Madara really is.

Now fact that Madara passted Diety gates that not only restrained the ten tails, but also tanked its attacks, is what does, though fact that Madara who did that was still much weaker than his EMS(or even his sage) self speaks for itself.

@eredin12:

1) It's not evidence for scaling his physicals to the Juubi laser either.

2) Edo Madara being physically stronger than the Juubi let alone its jutsu or TBBs makes zero sense and you know it. And that was alive Madara who broke the restraints anyway.

@shirso:

Well I was having problem Juubi laser being stronger than Sage Madara's physicals part.

And yea I do not think that Edo Madara is physically stronger than Juubi, I think alive Madara is, one used in this thread.

They were a decent distance away, how far away depends on how big you think 10 tails is. And even standing right under 10 tails would mean they all take tiny fractions due to how big 10 tails is.

Fair on wood clone thing, I forgot about it and I don't remember anything implying wood clones have the same durability as the original body. Then again, she still punched through Susanoo' ribs.

@eredin12: Alive Madara is not much weaker than EMS in fact Hashirama said Madara had regained his original strength when he revived. Although I have other problems with the feat anyway.

@shirso: Well It was only after Madara absorbed and used Sage Mode that Hashirama noted that he is regaining his former strength, meaning that Pre-Sage Mode, when he passed Diety Gates, he would be much weaker than alive Madara, as well as of course Sage Madara used in this thread.

@eredin12: Kabuto's Edos are very close to their alive versions in strength to begin with...

Not Madara and Hashirama, who as Maulsmacker pointed out, are beyond Edo Tensei technique entirely. We clearly both saw the gap of how much stronger resurrected Madara was when he passed Diety gates that restrained his edo self and on top of that, we have then confirmation by Hashi who knew how strong EMS Madara is best that that even with Sage mode, which would make Madara much stronger, he was still approaching the strength of his prime.

Madara one shots the verse

Lmao Sage Madara still oneshots.

Still madara

True, it wasn't even fully formed either when it went off, but still. That is the closest someone found of some evidence of a naruto character surviving a Bijuu bomb.

Bump.

Stalemate

@yray:

@s22sabo: if Kuma could wreck saturn sage madara will just blink

@dogsrus: The problem is Saturn's busted Regen. Even gear 5 didn't do lasting damage.

ON topic stalemate.

@edgelord91: soul rip gg and blind madara does have it he just doesnt have the outerpath

@dogsrus: Odds of him landing that are slim to none. And I know he has it but IDK if he can use it with just one eye

@edgelord91: his eyeless version can use any sixpath power except outer path powers like his personal power limbo and summoning the gedo which is why he waited for it and he would land it if kuma could land a punch on him

@dogsrus: so your admitting he can't use all his rinnegan powers.

Kuma caught Saturn off guard and it's explicitly stated Saturn doesn't dodge unless he needs to.

Nothing stopping Saturn from immobilizing Madara with his glare, stabbing him, or poisoning him point blank (only reason nagato succeeded on Naruto was because the preta path negated his counter attack)

Madara

Madara dogwalks

Madara easily

Madara

Either stalemate or Saturn wins. As far as we can tell Madara has no way to put him down outside of soul rip(which he doesn't do in character and might not be able to with only one rinnegan) while Saturn can kill him with poison or potentially his eye has.

Madara just summons Gedo Mazo and calls it a day.

@dertilt: how would that help?