Anakin was nerfed on Mustafar (EU)

@supreme101: This post was boring so streamlining.

I knew that.

Knew it was irrelevent. Posted it anyway. Love it.

Debunk every single scan I brought cuz this is absolutely ridiculous.

Okay.

It was Anakin's overconfidence, fueled by the dark side, which led to his defeat. A mistimed leap over Obi-Wan allowed him to swiftly cut Anakin, leaving him disabled on the shore of a lava river.

Lightsabers:GtwatF

Simply states Anakin is overconfident when he made the leap. No power loss or conflinct mentioned during the duel

One of the problems with Sith is that they are quick to anger this scene with her, it was very important that we sort of set it up to the point where he chokes her as he does with one of the Generals in Episode IV, but at the same time he doesn't kill her or anything, he just you know causes her to faint, but you get to see that flash of anger, that he now doesn't really have that much control over

The whole point of a jedi is that you can completely control your anger and now he's at a point where he cant control it at all, and its because of his need for control and power and being very upset when he doesn't have it- ROTS audio commentary track

This speaks to Anakin flying into a rage. Does not mention any power loss or conflict at the time as he is in a rage. It also does not refer to the duel itself but rather his confrontation with Padme. Which is covered by

No mention of power loss or conflict. Confirms Anakin shows no remorse (defined as " done without regret or guilt.) Further confirming no conflict in the duel itself.

Sidious' IU musings. Refers to Anakin not being able to control his anger leading him to mistakes on slopes. No power loss or conflict in comparison to previous versions.

Does not mention any power loss or conflicts. As for the "weaknesses" it refers to, Obi-Wan defeated Anakin due to him getting arrogant on a slope. Not due to any power loss and such. Which your own quotes show.

No power loss or conflicts mentioned.

As defined by Oxford dictionary

To "give yourself over": phrasal verb. give yourself over/up to something. ​to spend all your time doing something or thinking about something; to allow something to completely control your life.

So Anakin gives himself over to Sith Fury. Nothing else is present. Not doubt or anything else. Anakin's self doubt is not present in the duel itself.

No power loss or conflicts mentioned. Clearly refers to high ground moment which is due to arrogance.

No power loss or conflicts mentioned. Clearly refers to high ground moment which is due to arrogance.

And that's everything. So considering none of your quotes have him being conflicted during the duel and none of them mention power loss of any kind is any of this sinking in yet?

@greysentinel365:

Knew it was irrelevent. Posted it anyway. Love it.

Please read what I say

Simply states Anakin is overconfident when he made the leap. No power loss or conflinct mentioned during the duel

Ignoring all the other quotes referring to this. Why are you using this to say for the entire duel. Not to mention that says it was a misstep on his part lmao.

This speaks to Anakin flying into a rage. Does not mention any power loss or conflict at the time as he is in a rage. It also does not refer to the duel itself but rather his confrontation with Padme. Which is covered by

Again it is feelings that he has no control over which the quote elaborates. You keep cutting shit out to back your low tier agenda.

No mention of power loss or conflict. Confirms Anakin shows no remorse (defined as " done without regret or guilt.) Further confirming no conflict in the duel itself.

The action was done out of confliction pushed by his anger.

Sidious' IU musings. Refers to Anakin not being able to control his anger leading him to mistakes on slopes. No power loss or conflict in comparison to previous versions.

Says he's between both worlds which is proven correct. Calling it a IU musing is no debunk lol.

Does not mention any power loss or conflicts. As for the "weaknesses" it refers to, Obi-Wan defeated Anakin due to him getting arrogant on a slope. Not due to any power loss and such. Which your own quotes show.

Says but his rage overwhelmed him. That directly says despite calling on more power to amp. His range blindsided it making him unable to utilize it.

No power loss or conflicts mentioned.

As defined by Oxford dictionary

To "give yourself over": phrasal verb. give yourself over/up to something. ​to spend all your time doing something or thinking about something; to allow something to completely control your life.

Action done out of rage and self doubt. He gave himself over to the dark side as shown before when he pledged despite the fact he was contemplating what he did. this directly backs George's quote.

So Anakin gives himself over to Sith Fury. Nothing else is present. Not doubt or anything else. Anakin's self doubt is not present in the duel itself.

Unable to read I see.

No power loss or conflicts mentioned. Clearly refers to high ground moment which is due to arrogance.

No power loss or conflicts mentioned. Clearly refers to high ground moment which is due to arrogance.

Did you miss the part where I placed classifications with these scans. but since arrogance is a known factor in making mistakes and causing disbalance (Which Anakin did) so another point for the mental nerf counter.

And that's everything. So considering none of your quotes have him being conflicted during the duel and none of them mention power loss of any kind is any of this sinking in yet?

No actually....because you failed to debunk anything in the first place.

@supreme101:

Please read what I say

I did. That's why I'm laughing'

Why are you using this to say for the entire duel.

Because its true for the entire duel.

Not to mention that says it was a misstep on his part lmao.

Never have I denied he got arrogant for a moment at the end lol.

Again it is feelings that he has no control over which the quote elaborates.

Those feelings are not present during the duel as he has been consumed by fury.

You keep cutting shit out to back your low tier agenda.

Because it is not referring to the subject of the thread.

The action was done out of confliction pushed by his anger.

Which led him to be consumed by hate and rage erasing both. They're not present during the duel itself.

Says he's between both worlds which is proven correct. Calling it a IU musing is no debunk lol.

This isn't a debunk.

That directly says despite calling on more power to amp. His range blindsided it making him unable to utilize it.

It does not say he was unable to use it.

Action done out of rage and self doubt. He gave himself over to the dark side as shown before when he pledged despite the fact he was contemplating what he did. this directly backs George's quote.

Except he gives himself over to sith fury after this rendering that irrelevent. The geroge quote is about a different scene and irrelevent.

Unable to read I see.

You couldn't function past the first four words of a quote.

Did you miss the part where I placed classifications with these scans. but since arrogance is a known factor in making mistakes and causing disbalance (Which Anakin did) so another point for the mental nerf counter.

Arrogance doesn't nerf your power. Anakin is confirmed to only make a single mistake and that's the high ground.

No actually....because you failed to debunk anything in the first place.

You're still squirming even with all your quotes burned before you

@greysentinel365:

I did. That's why I'm laughing'

More like a coping mechanism but sure whatever floats your boat.

Because its true for the entire duel.

yet that's not what the scan says nor implies. Next

Never have I denied he got arrogant for a moment at the end lol.

Your not attrubuting it to his misstep.

Those feelings are not present during the duel as he has been consumed by fury.

And self doubt and gee I wonder what emotion he's feeling that he can't control an emotion that definitely caused his disblance drove him over the edge stated as a weakness to his power etc.

Because it is not referring to the subject of the thread.

In what godforsaken way?

Which led him to be consumed by hate and rage erasing both. They're not present during the duel itself.

This isn't a debunk.

It is as it's direct evidence you just outright disregarded the scans quote.

It does not say he was unable to use it.

"Vader calls the darkside for more power but he is overwhelmed by rage" clearly worded his overwhelming rage prevented him from utilizing his power properly.

Except he gives himself over to sith fury after this rendering that irrelevent. The geroge quote is about a different scene and irrelevent.

You can't seem to make the connection can you?

Arrogance doesn't nerf your power. Anakin is confirmed to only make a single mistake and that's the high ground.

It nerfed his skill and mentally. I never said it nerfed power lol. Yeah he made a mistake there? and?

You're still squirming even with all your quotes burned before you

And you somehow can't comprehend them despite it being spoonfed to you.

@supreme101:

yet that's not what the scan says nor implies. Next

It's actually what it explcitily says haha.

And self doubt and gee I wonder what emotion he's feeling

That was before the duel

stated as a weakness to his power etc.

The weakness stated was arrogance because its referring to the high ground leap.

In what godforsaken way?

Because you're attempting to assert the notion that Anakins power/skill was in anyway nerfed during the Mustafar Duel. Yet continue to focus on his state before the duel while ignoring explicit statements about his state during the duel

clearly worded his overwhelming rage prevented him from utilizing his power properly.

If the intent were that he was weakened it would say he was weakened. Instead it only says he was overwhelmed and that led to a weakness Obi could win with. That being specifically his arrogance at the last second during the high ground not any power or skill drop.

You can't seem to make the connection can you?

Mirror

It nerfed his skill and mentally.

Never stated in a single source. Present one that explcitily says this or concede.

And you somehow can't comprehend them despite it being spoonfed to you.

Mirror

@greysentinel365:

It's actually what it explcitily says haha.

Actual reason that isn't copium?

That was before the duel

"In his rage and self doubt" Anakin attacks obi wan

The weakness stated was arrogance because its referring to the high ground leap.

Not what was said regarding his power as that guide makes it explicitly clear in it's format.

Because you're attempting to assert the notion that Anakins power/skill was in anyway nerfed during the Mustafar Duel. Yet continue to focus on his state before the duel while ignoring explicit statements about his state during the duel

No I am not, and even if I was how is there any difference you think after all the shit he went through and did you'd think he'd be clear headed and in tip top shape the next moment when in that very same scene he's outright stated to have broke mentally and emotionally?

If the intent were that he was weakened it would say he was weakened. Instead it only says he was overwhelmed and that led to a weakness Obi could win with. That being specifically his arrogance at the last second during the high ground not any power or skill drop.

His overwhelming rage weakened him preventing him from using the power he was calling on what more do you want?

Never stated in a single source. Present one that explcitily says this or concede.

Idk maybe all the sources I brought and quoted regarding his nerf?

@supreme101:

Actual reason that isn't copium?

Quote says nothing about him being nerfed and only states he made one mistake making it clear he wasn't compromised.

"In his rage andself doubt"Anakin attacks obi wan

You did it again. You cut a line. You legit have tunnel vision.

See when you add the little bit in the middle there that your brain apparently can't comphrehend it makes it clear the rage and self doubt were utterly replaced by Sith Fury during the duel itself.

So the sequence goes

1. Anakin is filled with rage and self doubt.

2. He gives himself over to Sith Fury. Erasing them as made clear in the evidence I posted above as to what "gives himself" means which you have never countered.

3. Anakin attacks Obi-Wan

2&3 are the only points relevent to the Mustafar duel as they are the only ones that comment on Anakins state in the duel itself.

Not what was said regarding his power as that guide makes it explicitly clear in it's format.

The guide makes zero explicit statements on him being weakened. No guide does. We know this as one has yet to be produced in 20 years.

No I am not, and even if I was how is there any difference you think after all the shit he went through and did you'd think he'd be clear headed and in tip top shape the next moment when in that very same scene he's outright stated to have broke mentally and emotionally?

If only we didn't have a novel that explcitely goes into this.

Lets see what happened to it during the fight itself….. you know, the part that matters

"Padme? Are you here? Are you all right?
"I'm very sorry, Lord Vader. I'm afraid she died. It seems in your anger, you killed her."
This burns hotter than the lava had.
"No... no, it is not possible!"
You loved her. You will always love her. You could never will her death. Never. But you remember...You remember all of it. You remember the dragon that you brought Vader forth from your heart to slay. You remember the cold venom in Vader's blood. You remember the furnace of Vader's fury, and the black hatred of seizing her throat to silence her lying mouth
And there is one blazing moment in which you finally under-stand that there was no dragon. That there was no Vader. That there was only you. Only Anakin Skywalker.

- RotS Novel

When we see this we can directly path through the quote above what happens in the scene and how they match perfectly. The venom in Anakins blood is from the balcony scene. Representing his doubts and fears

He couldn't shake a certain creeping sensation... a kind of cold, slimy ooze that slithered up the veins of his legs and spread clammy tendrils through his guts...

Almost as though he was still afraid...

She will die, you know, the dragon whispered.

He shook himself, scowling. Impossible. He was Darth Vader. Fear had no power over him. He had destroyed his fear.

All things die.

Yet it was as though when he had crushed the dragon under his boot, the dragon had sunk venomed fangs into his heel.

Now its poison chilled him to the bone.

Even stars burn out.

- RotS Novel

Vader explicity sets off Anakin furnace as he chokes Padme and attacks Obi-Wan. Reminder that when the furnace is unsealed

Dragon tries its best to freeze away his strength, to whisper him that Dooku has beaten him before, that Dooku has all the power of the darkness, to remind him how Dooku took his hand, how Dooku could strike down even Obi-Wan himself seemingly without effort and now Anakin is all alone and he will never be a match for any Lord of the Sith—But Palpatine's words rage is your weapon have given Anakin permission to unseal the shielding around his furnace heart, and all his fears and all his doubts shrivel in its flame.

- RotS Novel

All his fears and doubts are erased in the flames. So MFV during the duel explicitely has no fears or doubts. The dragon was dead during the MF duel and the "venom" was burned away. He brought his rage or “Vader” forth to kill it. Now what happened the last time this occurred?

He instead turned his gaze inward: he unlocked the furnace gate within his heart and stepped forth to regard with new eyes the cold freezing dread of the dead-star dragon that had haunted his life. I am Darth Vader, he said within himself. The dragon tried again to whisper of failure, and weakness, and inevitable death, but with one hand the Sith Lord caught it, crushed away its voice; it tried to rise then, to coil and rear and strike, but the Sith Lord laid his other hand upon it and broke its power with a single effortless twist. I am Darth Vader, he repeated as he ground the dragon's corpse to dust beneath his mental heel, as he watched the dragon's dust and ashes scatter before the blast from his furnace heart, and you—You are nothing at all. He had become, finally, what they all called him.

The Hero With No Fear.
- RotS Novel

Oh yeah KFV and Zonakin. He's explicitely in the same state.

His overwhelming rage weakened him preventing him from using the power he was calling on what more do you want?

You're making stuff up again. He's never stated to be weakened. The "weakness" stated is his arrogance as that's what led to his defeat via Obi-Wan taking advantage on it. The quote comments on nothing else. You have nothing.

Idk maybe all the sources I brought and quoted regarding his nerf?

All debunked.

@greysentinel365:

Quote says nothing about him being nerfed and only states he made one mistake making it clear he wasn't compromised.

Dosen't even say that.

See when you add the little bit in the middle there that your brain apparently can't comphrehend it makes it clear the rage and self doubt were utterly replaced by Sith Fury during the duel itself.

So the sequence goes

1. Anakin is filled with rage and self doubt.

2. He gives himself over to Sith Fury. Erasing them as made clear in the evidence I posted above as to what "gives himself" means which you have never countered.

3. Anakin attacks Obi-Wan

2&3 are the only points relevent to the Mustafar duel as they are the only ones that comment on Anakins state in the duel itself.

Anakin giving himself over to rage dosen't erase that feeling at all whatsoever. to give yourself dosen't mean you can't have the feeling of self doubt. Which was done out of it.

The guide makes zero explicit statements on him being weakened. No guide does. We know this as one has yet to be produced in 20 years.

All the guides I showed say that.

Vader explicity sets off Anakin furnace as he chokes Padme and attacks Obi-Wan. Reminder that when the furnace is unsealed

That's against dooku lmao. The dragon still has it's prescence throughout the the novel so unserious💀

All his fears and doubts are erased in the flames. So MFV during the duel explicitely has no fears or doubts. The dragon was dead during the MF duel and the "venom" was burned away. He brought his rage or “Vader” forth to kill it. Now what happened the last time this occurred?

Different situation with different mental state regarding such. Your basing this off an assumption why don't you show for the actual duel.

Oh yeah KFV and Zonakin. He's explicitely in the same state.

See...I'm gonna ask you to show it then you won't for maybe the next few chapters or at all as i've asked for some before.

You're making stuff up again. He's never stated to be weakened. The "weakness" stated is his arrogance as that's what led to his defeat via Obi-Wan taking advantage on it. The quote comments on nothing else. You have nothing.

Your just not listening. His weakness wasn't the arrogance with that scan. it says he calls upon for more power but overwhelmed by rage in the very same line mind you.

All debunked.

denial and lying about context and what a source says isn't a debunk

@supreme101:

Dosen't even say that.

Yes. It does.

Anakin giving himself over to rage dosen't erase that feeling at all whatsoever. to give yourself dosen't mean you can't have the feeling of self doubt. Which was done out of it.

Already debunked. See definition above.

All the guides I showed say that.

They do not.

That's against dooku lmao.

You legit cannot comprehend any form of analysis. I even underlined the relevent part.

Different situation with different mental state regarding such.

The language and consistent throughline of the metaphor prove they are identical.

See...I'm gonna ask you to show it

You just read it and you can't even realise it. I legit just posted Anakin unsealing the furnace and erasing all his doubts in all three cases and you can't realise it. This is sad.

His weakness wasn't the arrogance with that scan. it says he calls upon for more power but overwhelmed by rage in the very same line mind you.

Okay clearly you can't read so I'm gonna make this simple.

What made Anakin think he could beat Obi-Wan on the high ground?

denial and lying about context and what a source says isn't a debunk

Yet you made a whole thread based on that.

@greysentinel365:

Yes. It does.

Alr elaborated how it dosen't

Already debunked. See definition above.

A definition your applying wrongly.

They do not.

That's literally all you have, it's either you saying they don't or outright lying about it.

You legit cannot comprehend any form of analysis. I even underlined the relevent part.

That wasn't relevant or matter in this case contextually is what I'm saying.

The language and consistent throughline of the metaphor prove they are identical.

No it dosen't the context is both different and elaborated different

You just read it and you can't even realise it. I legit just posted Anakin unsealing the furnace and erasing all his doubts in all three cases and you can't realise it. This is sad.

Only with dooku which your trying to push repeatedly in different context that's not even in any way similair.

Okay clearly you can't read so I'm gonna make this simple.

What made Anakin think he could beat Obi-Wan on the high ground?

And since you can't comprehend what does blind rage and mental state affect skill and power. What does that very sentence say regarding both his power and rage.

I know what made Anakin think he could win, I'm saying the blatant other factors to his loss which that very scan you outright misread out of purposeful ignorance says.

Yet you made a whole thread based on that.

Saying what a scan says>>>>> cope tbh

Not sure how this is even debatable. Dark Lord the Rise of Darth Vader confirms this saying he was still “between worlds” and “vulnerable”. You also have Nick Gillard saying that Anakin is a 9 and Obi is an 8 and that Anakin only lost because he was emotional.

I honestly just kind of assumed this back when I was watching it

@supreme101:

Alr elaborated how it dosen't

You did not.

A definition your applying wrongly.

Provide the counter then.

That's literally all you have, it's either you saying they don't or outright lying about it.

There's nothing really else to say. You're incapable of engaging or comprehending any of the analysis that I've provided. You can't even recognise it as analysis.

No it dosen't the context is both different and elaborated different

Context is identical and elaborated with identical language.

Only with dooku which your trying to push repeatedly in different context that's not even in any way similair.

In all three cases the furnace was unleashed and the doubts burned away.

And since you can't comprehend what does blind rage and mental state affect skill and power.

In Anakins case it makes him more powerful and hyper foccussed on his target. It burns away all doubt and fear.

@greysentinel365:

You did not.

Whatever helps.

Provide the counter then.

I already provided that counter posts ago😂

There's nothing really else to say. You're incapable of engaging or comprehending any of the analysis that I've provided. You can't even recognise it as analysis.

Proving my exact point. You have nothing so you lie.

Context is identical and elaborated with identical language.

No it's really not....different fight different decisions different mental state different emotions simple as that.

In all three cases the furnace was unleashed and the doubts burned away.

Not in the Mustafar duel

In Anakins case it makes him more powerful and hyper foccussed on his target. It burns away all doubt and fear.

They became a direct weakness to his power utilization, no doubt was burned away at all. As noted he even has inner turmoil. Lucas statement also exists.

"That's just Sidious IU musings"🤓 Nick Gillard even said so Anakin was on edge etc etc. Tho I wouldn't use him mainly however.

Paying attention and seeing the kind of mentality Anakin has there can suspicion. however that's only in EU

@supreme101:

I already provided that counter posts ago

You didn't. You just ignored a line that didn't suit you.

Proving my exact point. You have nothing so you lie.

Your attention span has a limit of four words. At least you're consistent. Read the rest. You can take a break after every four words if its a struggle.

No it's really not....different fight different decisions different mental state different emotions simple as that.

Again. The book treats them exactly the same.

Not in the Mustafar duel

Already posted it happening above. I'll post the four words so you can handle it

the furnace of Vader's fury

Might as well as you can't marry concepts or engage with the medium outside of whats directly in front of you fours words long at that second.

They became a direct weakness to his power utilization

Never stated or even implied by any sources.

no doubt was burned away at all.

Novel explicitely says it was.

As noted he even has inner turmoil.

Prior to the duel not during it.

Lucas statement also exists.

Applies to the balcony scene which is also addressed above. Good time to mention Stover is on record saying the dragon/furnace metaphors were Lucas's idea from the line edits making Anakin burning away his doubt from him which is why the balcony scene lines up 1-1 with what Lucas said.

@greysentinel365:

You didn't. You just ignored a line that didn't suit you.

Ironic

Your attention span has a limit of four words. At least you're consistent. Read the rest. You can take a break after every four words if its a struggle.

More yap

Again. The book treats them exactly the same.

No it does not. Different context 0 comparison.

Already posted it happening above. I'll post the four words so you can handle it

the furnace of Vader's fury

Might as well as you can't marry concepts or engage with the medium outside of whats directly in front of you fours words long at that second.

You literally proved nothing with the quote. Jesus.

Never stated or even implied by any sources.

Most of them especially ones I have say t does. You know which scan I'm gonna bring

Novel explicitely says it was.

Against Dooku.

Prior to the duel not during it.

evidence or valid point:-0

Applies to the balcony scene which is also addressed above. Good time to mention Stover is on record saying the dragon/furnace metaphors were Lucas's idea from the line edits making Anakin burning away his doubt from him which is why the balcony scene lines up 1-1 with what Lucas said.

Read the entire quote.

@supreme101:

Ironic

You literally skip lines that don't suit you

More yap

Nevertheless true.

You literally proved nothing with the quote. Jesus.

You can't comprehend it.

Most of them especially ones I have say t does. You know which scan I'm gonna bring

You don't follow what the quotes actually say so I actually don't.

Against Dooku.

I bet I could start a car and you would say "you only proved it will start when in that parking space"

evidence or valid point

Been so long since you've used or made one you don't recognise it.

Read the entire quote.

Already have. Does not apply to the duel.

@sonofdarkness:

Dark Lord the Rise of Darth Vader confirms this saying he was still “between worlds” and “vulnerable”.

This applies to all versions of pre-suit Vader. Anakin didn´t truly embrace the dark side until his maiming on Mustafar and the following reconstruction.

You also have Nick Gillard saying that Anakin is a 9 and Obi is an 8 and that Anakin only lost because he was emotional.

This is very true. Every description of the duel still calls Anakin a 9, with Obi-Wan winning in spite of Anakins superiority, not because Anakin dropped to his level.

Kenobi won for many reasons, but not because Anakin was less powerful in the way this blog describes. I would know, because I subscribed to that very same notion for a long time.

@greysentinel365:

You literally skip lines that don't suit you

Again absolute irony. Even more when your not even acknowledging what that scan says.

You can't comprehend it.

Right just like how you can't comprehend novel passages author and officials statements and other guides. or even more so differentiate context.

You don't follow what the quotes actually say so I actually don't.

You know damn well

I bet I could start a car and you would say "you only proved it will start when in that parking space"

Is the car a person with a mentality emotions that had factors on what effected it?

Been so long since you've used or made one you don't recognise it.

Already have. Does not apply to the duel.

it does as it talks about his emotional and mental state and inner confliction on whether he would do his actions again. It even mentions he knows he will eventually fight Obi-Wan and that Padme might not agree as well as noting he feels no joy and isn't okay with what he's doing.