@OmegaRed86: In Marvel's defense, I would say that possessing a fifth (or a quarter now) of one of the most powerful cosmic entities would be sufficient enough to beat even Thor. But then I remember he beat Rachel whilst she had the PF. So yeah lot of inconsistencies at Marvel currently.

@OmegaRed86 said:

@White Mage said:

There's a preview for AVX #9...

Link?

http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album_view.php?gid=4399&page=6

This time, it's Magik and Colossus........slash/punch combo

@TheAcidSkull said:

thor job's a lot lately.....

And you wonder why Thor fans complain.

@OmegaRed86: Two words: Punching Bag.

AvX 9 is out, I believe. Does anyone know how bad Thor loss?

I'll go ahead and mark this as another loss for Thor.

We see the image from the preview of him losing, being dumped in the limbo prison and being rescued later on. There is no fight to see in this issue apart from the image that was in the preview.

@Danvidar said:

We see the image from the preview of him losing, being dumped in the limbo prison and being rescued later on. There is no fight to see in this issue apart from the image that was in the preview.

Thanks, buddy.

@SC said:

Wait so the guy who created Thor, Silver Surfer and the Hulk, says he considers Thor the more powerful of the three? Thor has knocked out Silver Surfer more times than Silver Surfer has knocked out Thor. In direct application of strength versus strength Thor and Hulk were tied even after an hour of exertion, and but the Thor character is weaker. Kevin Grevioux, PAD, and Dan Slott. All Marvel writers, al consider Thor the most powerful Marvel superhero, but hey? What would those jokers know right? =p

I've never seen Stan Lee say that Thor is more powerful than Hulk or the Surfer. In the Surfers case i can think of that story where he stated that Thor was too much for him or whatever. Stan said that in creating Thor "I thought it would be fun to invent someone as powerful as, or perhaps even more powerful than, the Incredible Hulk" but that doesnt really say whether Thor was in the end more powerful or not in his opinion and he tended to show them as equals IMO. Grievoux is to Thor as Pak is to Hulk so its no surprise that he would consider Thor the most powerful but i've never heard PAD (who wrote Hulk and Thor having an epic all out death match in the Arctic that went for hours without conclusion) indicate that he thought Thor was the more powerful of the two. I'm not sure what Slott thinks in particular but if you have a quote or something that would be cool. I'm always at least interested in creator's opinions.

@SC said:

Wait so the guy who created Thor, Silver Surfer and the Hulk, says he considers Thor the more powerful of the three? Thor has knocked out Silver Surfer more times than Silver Surfer has knocked out Thor. In direct application of strength versus strength Thor and Hulk were tied even after an hour of exertion, and but the Thor character is weaker. Kevin Grevioux, PAD, and Dan Slott. All Marvel writers, al consider Thor the most powerful Marvel superhero, but hey? What would those jokers know right? =p

I've never seen Stan Lee say that Thor is more powerful than Hulk or the Surfer. In the Surfers case i can think of that story where he stated that Thor was too much for him or whatever. Stan said that in creating Thor "I thought it would be fun to invent someone as powerful as, or perhaps even more powerful than, the Incredible Hulk" but that doesnt really say whether Thor was in the end more powerful or not in his opinion and he tended to show them as equals IMO. Grievoux is to Thor as Pak is to Hulk so its no surprise that he would consider Thor the most powerful but i've never heard PAD (who wrote Hulk and Thor having an epic all out death match in the Arctic that went for hours without conclusion) indicate that he thought Thor was the more powerful of the two. I'm not sure what Slott thinks in particular but if you have a quote or something that would be cool. I'm always at least interested in creator's opinions.

So people are actually complaining about Thor getting beat in this clusterf*ck of an event ? LOL.

Cry me a damned river.

You're all pitching the hate like Thor should be kicking arse but think about this logically. Thor is THE BIG GUN a freaking god, but he shouldn't be able to to beat the phoenix that ,ich is agreed (would be a pretty quick story otherwise). But taking into account how short a time this is spread over and that Thor is the man that steps up each time and takes on the big guns, it makes sense that he'd be tired/injured/at less than peak. I think this is probably about right but hasn't been addressed properly on the pages.

@SC said:

There's a thread around here (Thor forum) with better references to Stan Lee talking about such things, I remember he addressed it in a book and also in the letters section of an issue, but I am too lazy to find it. That was heroes in general. I do remember off the top of my head that in an interview he had in Comic Book Artist #2, Stan said Thor was stronger than Hulk (in his opinion), but then he included the possibility of Hulk getting stronger, to the point of a draw.

I had a look around and i found the original quote from a preview on Google Books. Its from a Roy Thomas interview of Stan from around 2000:

Roy: And now we have what Evans and Novak would call on their show, "The Big Question", which the editor requested me to ask you: Which is stronger, Thor or the Hulk?

Stan: I would have to guess that Thor is stronger, only because he is a god and probably can't be killed. Again I don't know how the guys have been writing him lately, but I thought of him as invulnerable. I would think that with his hammer and everything he'd probably beat the Hulk. But what's interesting with the Hulk is, the more he fights and the more he's beaten, the stronger he gets, so maybe it would be a draw.

Roy: It was really a facetious question - but on the other hand, it's one of those things you could argue about forever. It's amazing that, after 25-30 year, people still think of that as the archetypal Marvel question.

Stan: The thing I loved writing was having our heroes fight, and for me to figure a way to end the story without denigrating either one or making one seem stronger than the other. The best example of this was in one issue of Daredevil, where DD was fighting Sub-Mariner. Oh, I loved the way that story turned out! That was just so perfectly done. Daredevil was beaten, but he was just as heroic as Sub-Mariner."

Credit to you for finding it (i think i'd seen it on KMC but never in any detail) though in reading it, despite the clear wording it does sound like Stan is largely talking in terms of who would win in a fight rather than pure strength. Strength and power often seem to be used interchangably and particularly so back in the day. Still that was the original topic of conversation I suppose.

I absolutely agree that he would show them as equals, but that was a part of his writing philosophy to have all characters not look too bad by other characters, so he would probably underplay Hulk to add more drama if Hulk fought Daredevil and underplay Thor if Thor fought Spider-man for dramatic tension. This is why ultimately using what characters do in stories will always be a bit subjective.

True though he did at least participate in that Larsen story that first gave the nod to Hulk in terms of strength. Then again it also gave the nod to Thor + Mjolnir so perhaps thats not surprising. IIRC I've also heard rumours that were art changes (that might reflect why Thor very suddenly appears with huge bruises in the last panel of the fight for example) and its possible that Stan might have wanted Larsen to tone down how imbalanced the fight/s ended up. Certainly when Larsen pretty much did the same story again there were more onesided scenes with Thor KOing Hulk with a lightning bolt and Hulk beating Thor down until he offered no resistance. Still i dont really have any evidence on that either way.

I agree about Grievioux and Pak, except I know Grievioux likes Hulk as well, I would be skeptical about Pak liking Thor in the same sense.

Sure but i don't think Grievoux likes Hulk anywhere near as much as he likes Thor. At least with everything he has gotten to write so far he has tried to amek very definite statements about Thor's power and strength.

Yes that was a great Thor Hulk clash, PAD even temporarily repowered Thor just so he could have that story. He has posted a lot of forums, so should be possible to find his opinion, I believe I read his opinion on CBR (in a forum) Dan Slott might be harder to find, because I remember seeing his name lots of places, at lots of sites and even Formnspring.

I'll keep an eye out. Thanks for the info.

@Crimsonlord53 said:

That would be an interesting fight hulk Vs a P5. Thor does seem to be a whipping boy as of late.

Hulk would get dismantled very easy look what happened to Rulk lol .

@SC said:

@Fifthchild: I think comparing Grievioux and Pak is that Pak has had opportunity in writing. I mean, both writers are open about their opinions (which is refreshing) but one is an actual comics writer and the other sort of more guest writes. I'd wager Grievioux probably likes Hulk about how much Pak likes Hercules. In an ideal world I think having both writing comics at the same time would be awesome, they would balance each other out. Much better than some of the other Hulk and Thor writers. Oh and no probs boss, take care.

I think the Pak Hercules analogy is probably a good one. I can think of quite a few posters on other board for whom Hulk and Thor are their two favourite characters but when when pushed they have a clear preference and i imagine Grievoux is much like that. Anyways good talking with you.

This is what will happen to Thor eventually.

@NerdsFTW said:

This is what will happen to Thor eventually.

I almost cried.

@OmegaRed86 said:

I almost cried.

I did too.

He is the new punching bag in Marvel.

@TDK_1997 said:

He is the new punching bag in Marvel.

Agreed. He's nothing more than a jobbering PIS machine.

He should hop out of this event and head to the bar with his new drinking buddies post-crisis Darkseid and current Galactus.

@TDK_1997 said:

He is the new punching bag in Marvel.

@Enyalios: excellent analysis. this pitiful excuse of a story arc seriously made me sick and want to just blow off comics completely. dumb plot, god forsaken writing, lots of poor artwork, and most of all my boy thor getting treated like a measuring stick and a punching bag. marvel has really out done themselves here. you know, it sure would be great to get paid to write unprofessional garbage, ruin good characters, and piss off fans

stan lee must be disgusted

Lets just say bad -_-

Don't forget when this happened. He put a hole in Galactus's head but he can't stand up to a portion of the PF, yea that sounds about right.....................darn you Marvel........darn you all to heck

WOW Thor was complete garbage in Avx, he couldn't take down even one phoenix powered opponent, SPIDER-MAN took out two of the P5 in one issue!!!!

the whole AvX has been a total disappointment(((( and Thor has been a total jobber((((

Has anyone made a 'Thor loser' joke yet?

I may be late, but for the people arguing about who is more powerful, Thor or Captain Marvel. I think it is pretty obvious that Thor is more powerful. I mean you could argue that Cap fights Thanos on a regular bases, but really. Has he ever actually done good against him? To my knowledge, Thanos always wrecks him. didn't he punch Cap from the moon to earth before? Or was it the next way around? Regardless Cap has no feats to suggest that he can even hold his own woth Thor, an the only reason he did so in AvX os because he had the Phoenix Force. How much? I do not remember although Thor was badly injured in his fight against the Phoenix Force. Not to mention Thor was stomping the hell out of Cap until he blasted him. As for Hulk being more stronger than Thor, yeah in a way. At base strength Thor is suppose to be well above Hulk physically, although over the years the gap has turned smaller. Thor always leads out with the physical advantage until Hulk passes him with anger. So yeah phyically Hulk is more stronger. In an all fight Thor is more powerful by quite a margin. Hulk only has a small advantage, while Thor has a lot, and big ones too. Range attacks, flying, teleportation, ect. In the long run Thor is more powerful than Hulk by quite a margin, and ahuld win everytime of ge doesn't fight with skill. Silver Surfer is a different deal entirely. He is more versatile than Thor arguably, and more powerful. I don't believe the difference is great. I believe it's relatively close, and that Thor can win sometimes with Surfer taking a majority. Although as someone has said, Thor is the son of Odin, and Gaea and is destined to become more powerful. Even more so than Odin. The Mighty Thor did a good job at showing how close Thor and Surfer are. Surfer loss morals when Thor striked him when he told him not to. So yes he was trying, and to be honest Thor was tanking blasts from Surfer while he was weakened from the rainbow tree.

Just my 2 cents I thought I should throw in.

Ugh, why bump anything related to AVX? That event was literally a slap in the face to comic book fans, least of all Thor fans.

Thor couldn't beat Hercules,Hyperion or Gladiator without hitting them with his hammer.Count Nefria beat him with it so to me let's see him fight them without it.

thank god for the phoenix force ...all of those rat would have been wrecked,and that Rachel fight was trash Thor stomped her before with the phoenix .........but he is still Thor dammit that will never change