DS mops the floor with batman because he's won 2 of the 3 fights they had so batman's mediocre and can't do any damage, right?

Nope. It's actually a common misunderstanding. Batman and DS actually fought 4 times(maybe 5).

DS beat batman once when he let batman live on the side of a rooftop.

But DS soon admits that batman is much more than worthy of beating him right after that fight.

Batman beat DS once when he knocked DS out with his own sniper.

Batman beat DS with Nightwing(Which doesn't count because batman had a team)

Batman was fighting DS again but it got interrupted by Harley Quinn and she detonated bombs.(Doesn't count)

Despite DS being a Meta-human, batman's punches, tactics, armor, and just batman himself is almost a super-human. There's no human alive that could beat batman(No regular human anyway). I mean.. think about it. Batman's a human who we've seen that beat the crap out of superhumans like they're his intellectual equal, or not even that. Batman's faced people beyond DSs power. DS is a former military soldier who was enhanced. He's also The Greatest Assassin in the DC Universe. He's not all that new to batman.

And to make things worse for deathstroke, batman's actually gotten better, faster, stronger, and smarter... in every way shape and form. Batman is, and I quote, "Better than Ever":

Showcasing his dodging speed against 4 super powered people (who are enhanced with Bloom seeds that grants them super powers) who are attacking him at the same time and are unable to land a single attack against him. According to Alfred we learn this is likely due to his now newly improved body having been fully healed by the Dionesium (the formula that gives Talon's their super human abilities plus healing factor) he was exposed to that also seemingly boosted his physical abilities due to healing all the years of battle scars and wounds he endured throughout his crime fighting career (Batman v2 #50)

This was a good chuckle.

But in the first scan you posted it states that Batman is more skilled than Slade- but the physicals put him over the edge. It also states that Batman was one of the toughest foes that Slade has ever thought- which is fair, considering who he's fought before Bruce (not many people).

And the other instance was basically a cheap shot.

Slade is always gonna be above Batman.

@joey_destroyer_of_worlds: Slade's physicals aren't all that great dude....like I posted in my second scan.... is barely "over the edge", and not to mention, that's the very old batman, the new one is even better and stronger(I'm talking about new 52 batman). In each and every fight, DS has always - and I mean always had a close-call. He won, sure, but it was always a close fight. But now batman's "Better in Every way". DS needs something magical to happen to him to beat batman or some help. I mean sure, he got an enhancement, doesn't make him completely out of batman's league. That's a common mistake too. People see the words "enhanced" and just jump to the conclusion that that person is now freakin...spiderman's strength(which is 10 tons). No, it isn't like that. DS is a little over 1 ton. Batman is 1500 lbs strong.

But know what's interesting?

DS took down the Justice League before Green Arrow shot an Arrow in his other eye. He took down the WHOLE JLA(Batman's taken down the JLA too though, if you want scans, just ask). But he lost to Batman in a 1v1 and Batman and Nightwing. That's gotta tell you something that batman is not just your average man like everyone calls him out to be.

@batmanplusjay: Oh hun.

Slade's physicals aren't all that great dude....like I posted in my second scan.... is barely "over the edge", and not to mention, that's the very old batman, the new one is even better and stronger(I'm talking about new 52 batman). In each and every fight, DS has always - and I mean always had a close-call. He won, sure, but it was always a close fight. But nowbatman's "Better in Every way". DS needs something magical to happen to him to beat batman or some help. I mean sure, he got an enhancement, doesn't make him completely out of batman's league. That's a common mistake too. People see the words "enhanced" and just jump to the conclusion that that person is now freakin...spiderman's strength(which is 10 tons). No, it isn't like that. DS is a little over 1 ton. Batman is 1500 lbs strong.

No. Slade is way over 1 ton, as he has proven time and time again. No, he's not at Spiderman level- but he is definitely up there. I get this feeling that you haven't really read his comics.

In your second scan, it never says that Slade is 'barely' superhuman. It just says that he would hate to fight Bruce without his upgraded stats.

DS took down the Justice League before Green Arrow shot an Arrow in his other eye. He took down the WHOLE JLA(Batman's taken down the JLA too though, if you want scans, just ask). But he lost to Batman in a 1v1 and Batman and Nightwing. That's gotta tell you something that batman is not just your average man like everyone calls him out to be.

Do you really think that Batman is the only thing that is going to improve in Rebirth? Do you really think that all of a sudden he's going to be the absolute best?

Also, those are two completely different things. Both times that Slade and Bruce beat the JL was with major prep. And like I said, Slade 'lost' to Bruce due to a cheap shot. Might I remind you that Batman and Nightwing are some of the most skilled street levelers in DC Earth? Because, they are, and it doesn't mean that Slade's weaker than Batman because he got beat by them.

Don't say a fight doesn't count because Batman had help if you're going to mention that same fight later on.

And to make things worse for deathstroke, batman's actually gotten better, faster, stronger, and smarter... in every way shape and form. Batman is, and I quote, "Better than Ever":

Yes, actually, Batman got a level up in Batman 49-50, thank to the Dionisium.

@joey_destroyer_of_worlds:

"No. Slade is way over 1 ton, as he has proven time and time again. No, he's not at Spiderman level- but he is definitely up there. I get this feeling that you haven't really read his comics.

In your second scan, it never says that Slade is 'barely' superhuman. It just says that he would hate to fight Bruce without his upgraded stats."

Scans that slade is way over a ton please. Because I highly doubt that e is "up there" with spidey. And I never said that second scan says he was barely superhuman. I said it proved it. Because he will still feel batman's blows way after the flesh wounds and right after that fight, (if you read it) he lost to a regular street thug right after and someone had to give him a helping hand.

"Do you really think that Batman is the only thing that is going to improve in Rebirth? Do you really think that all of a sudden he's going to be the absolute best?

Also, those are two completely different things. Both times that Slade and Bruce beat the JL was with major prep. And like I said, Slade 'lost' to Bruce due to a cheap shot. Might I remind you that Batman and Nightwing are some of the most skilled street levelers in DC Earth? Because, they are, and it doesn't mean that Slade's weaker than Batman because he got beat by them.

Don't say a fight doesn't count because Batman had help if you're going to mention that same fight later on."

Now I didn't say batman would "be the absolute best". But when it comes to deathstroke, yes, yes he will. I never heard of anything yet that deathstroke will be better.

KOes the super human Manhunter (Paul DeKirk who also has a healing factor) with an elbow to the face then breaks all Manhunter's weapons with his bare hands (Power Company #15)

My point with this is - instead of just yelling "PIS! Batman's just human!". Why not take into consideration that batman could very well possibly be strong enough and skilled enough to do these things? Because he can.

@batmanplusjay: An example of really sh*tty writing doesn't prove your point.

@slayz: "Sh*tty writing" Two word phrase excuse made for little minds when someone you don't like can do extraordinary things.

That's not shitty writing. That fight makes perfect sense. You all just think just because he's human then he shouldn't be able to do ANYTHING. You just want him to lose to anyone that's Supernatural. He kicked the air out of Wonderwoman, made Martian get punched by Green lantern's ring and then subdued lantern.

He analyzed his foes using his skills and gadgets to his advantage. See, when batman beats people like them using skills it's always the two most common excuses "PIS" or "sh*tty writing". When in reality, it's possible and you're just hating.

FYI: Whether you like it or not, this does prove my point. Your opinion doesn't matter here.

@batmanplusjay: Yeah, no. It's just sh*tty writing.

Flash smokes him before the fight even begins. WW tanks his kick and his knee busts open. Martian Manhunter puts him to sleep. GL puts him in a restraining construct.

The PIS is real in this thread.

@slayz@theexile285

Just batman haters.. :/ Your just sore a$$ people who doesn't like the fact batman could whip the JLA's a$$ and deathsrokes. But it's alright. It happened, face facts. Batman wins.

Period.

@batmanplusjay: Batman is my second favorite character.

Don't kid yourself. Learn Batman's limits.

@batmanplusjay: I think you're a bat hater that pretend to be a bat fanboy...You're clearly trolling.

@alexander505: Oh shite you caught me.. I suppose I really am just a batman hater that somehow knows everything about batman and loves his games and comics. You just know more about me than I do. :P

@slayz I know batman's limits. But you act like it's freaking 0% possible for batman to use his intellect and gadgets, skills and even brute force to take out martial manhunter who isn't all THAT durable. Batman could easily beat GL. Seriously.

GL's gonna spawn something(whatever), batman's gonna dodge it and grapple to GL before he retracts his attack and by then GL's ring is gone and getting beaten the crap out of. But be honest bro, you cannot possibly think batman won't stack the odds in his favor like he does in like 90% of his fights, and actually get into a CQC with martian, and when GL shoots something he'll just make it hit martian like he did in this fight. Now you can be in denial all you want, batman certainly will do that. He will just use GL's power against him. Then grapple to GL and beat him up.

The only issues would have to be Wonder Woman and Flash. But flash is kind of simple. Instead of just dropping smoke and disappearing, batman probably would have did a combination - for example: Drop smoke pallets & Electric charge at the same time, Flash's gonna run in the smoke to get batman before he vanishes. But flash gets completely fried, and pounded by batman. WW doesn't know what's going on and can't risk hitting flash through all that smoke. Smoke vanishes, bats gone, Flash is hurt, batman's behind WW and round-house kicks her in the back of the head, making her stagger forward(I could show more scans of batman hurting people of WW's strength level if you want me too).

Now it's a 1v1. Mind you - batman's beaten multiple Amazons before too. Now yes, I know WW is the best of the amazons but my point was that if you're just gonna say "And WW kicks batman's butt with a slap", then you should know it won't be that easy.

There's so many issues with what you're claiming. First and foremost, although Batman's history allegedly didn't change going into the New52, Deathstroke's did. DS is probably stronger and faster than he ever was pre-reboot, and at the very least his healing factor is much improved. Then you're claiming that DS is just a former military that was enhanced. In every incarnation of him, Slade is shown to be a master martial artist and genius-level tactician, he's hardly simply former military. Yes Batman is more skilled, and yes with his gadgets Batman CAN beat Slade; but without prep he is very unlikely to take a majority.

That you're trying to use him beating Flash, WW, GL and Aquaman with MMH as well as an honest feat makes me think you're trolling. It's impossible that he could have dropped the smoke bomb before Flash reached him, or hurt WW with a punch, let alone the rest of the absurdity in those scans. It's just appalling PIS.

Worst of all, with the recent events in Batman 50, you're actually right in suggesting he's as close to being better than Slade as ever. Just you're exaggerating and taking things horribly out of context.

@batmanplusjay: You are right about Batman 50 and his recent level up, surely he is better then ever, but your attitude is more like a troll. Anyway, sorry maybe you're just a big fan.

@batmanplusjay: Why don't you go over to the Battle Forums and post this there?

"JLA vs Batman", with those scans that you provided. See how it goes.

Also, no, I totally think that Batman doesn't always get the upper hand, and he would get absolutely smoked by both the JLA and Deathstroke.

@night_raven: If his punches won't work, it's still simple to take out WW too. Batman would have kicked her, she'd have grabbed his leg and probably tossed him into a wall, batman would just get up and he'll throw a baterang, he'll miss on purpose, and WW would think she "dodged" it but now she's out like a light because the baterang left a trail of sleeping gas. And you're not the first to use the "Flash'll catch batman before he even blinks!" argument. But the issue isn't particularly speed. It comes with reaction time. I mean, sure, flash definitely is fast enough to catch the bat, but if flash doesn't react fast enough to how fast batman drops a pallet, he's not gonna beat him.

And batman's faster than you think. Look, I'm not sure if you're aware but haven't you ever saw the JLA question whether batman had a hidden super power because of his accomplishments? Many humans and the Justice League themselves questioned him. His strength is way above average, his speed, and yes, he has move "insanely" or "inhumanely" fast. I'll post scans for that too if you want.

People thinks batman will lose in a random encounter against any opponent. I bet you'd even think he'll lose to Robin if he was enhanced. Idk why, idk where batman somehow earned the bad rep where everyone thinks he will lose to everyone if it's a random encounter and uses "He's just human!" as a get out of jail free card when that's not the case.

@slayz@alexander505

Ok, so basicaly the gist of what you're all saying is that whenever or if batman ever beats anyone that's above human level, it's PIS. RIght?

Alright, I get it then. I don't agree, I just understand why you'd think a human like batman is useless and that he can't beat anyone without prep. Because you and everyone I've ever met thinks batman needs prep to fight everyone. You act as if batman's analyzing skills are useless in fights. He doesn't need a sheet of planning paper and a pen with a sh*tload of information in front of him to beat someone. All he needs is his tactical awareness, skills&talents, gadgets, and strategy skills.

But the thing I love most of all is how all this stuff happens, but you all just rule it out because you think it shouldn't have happened. And how you all just use It's Pis! as another get out of jail free card because you think it shouldn't have happened. When it was written, yes, it was written badly, personally, I wish I'd have written these fights. But my point is, this guy wrote the fight terribly but that doesn't mute or blind the fact that the fight would still turn out the same way.

@night_raven: And you said "Worst of all...you're actually right in actually suggesting he's as close to being better than slade than ever".

What does that mean exactly? That I'm right? Or is that sarcasm?

Deathstroke is better batman than batman. Get over it.

@nimblenavigaor: Yeah, I was wondering where my trolls were. But I found one! Just gotta wait for the rest of the flock.

@batmanplusjay: That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the JLA and Deathstroke would mow Batman down.

It was bad writing, end of story. Like I said, go post this in the Battles Board if you're so confident.

@slayz: Lol, I love how you just write this out by saying "Bad writing" with no proof or back up to what you say what-so-ever. xD

@batmanplusjay: The proof is in there feats and common sense, lol. WW has tanked harder hits. GL has restrained people before. MM has put people to sleep. Flash has blitzed people.

One incredibly low-balled showing of them from one story with terrible writing proves nothing... Why don't you address what I'm asking? Go post this to the Battles Board.

@batmanplusjay: In what world is WW throwing him into a wall not going to KO Batman?! The only way that happens is if she isn't actually trying to fight him. Ludicrous how you think Batman 'easily' beats Wonder Woman, he couldn't even beat her in a straight fight with prep and the Justice Buster suit, he had to deceive her. Haha you think the issue with Flash is his reaction time! He has an on panel statement of reacting to the femtosecond in the new 52, to the point that he'll notice even the changes in air pressure around him before something touches him. Nobody here is claiming that Batman isn't hugely impressive and capable of taking on super-powered threats, but your exaggeration is coming off like trolling.

And what I meant by the final statement is that there are actually genuine reasons why Batman could be above Slade now (mainly on account of him being in his best ever physical condition), but you've tried to use absurd writing (Bats vs JL) and horribly downplaying Slade (just 'former military that was enhanced') to claim that Bats would 'rip him to pieces'. In reality, a fight between the two of them now would be the closest it has ever been, but in a random encounter Slade would still be expected to come out with a slight majority due to his enhanced physicals, better armour, willingness to kill, more lethal weaponry and fighting skills that aren't that outclassed.

Whoever scripted the panels of Batman taking down Aquaman, Flash, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter needs to have their contract reconsidered unless there were extenuating circumstances that took place prior to that skirmish. And by "extenuating circumstances" I mean Mxyzptlk decided to temporarily strip them of their powers.

The idea that Bruce Wayne could punch Wonder Woman, hurt her, and that it would be anything other than bad writing is ridiculous. Same applies to Superman, Martian Manhunter, Aquaman, and a few other leaguers as well for that matter.

Indeed.

Deathstroke $hits on any not enhanced character, includng the best of the best Batman.

And that Batman confidential fight is up there with Spiderman beating Firelord (lol) when it comes to PIS. A great exmple.

And keep an eye for the new Deathstroke series by Priest. Those who read his Black Panther know what I mean. This thread will be even more ridiculous then.

Ok, so basicaly the gist of what you're all saying is that whenever or if batman ever beats anyone that's above human level, it's PIS. RIght?

Never said that, Batman is completely able to defeat low metahumans level. There's a chance that right now, with the level up given by the Dionisium, the same Batman is a low metahuman level. But the JL thing, is a PIS, exactly as a PIS Deathstroke vs JL. If you wanna talk about Batman vs JL, talk about the Endgame story, when Bruce fights (with a huge power suit made by him) against almost the entire Justice League actually.

I think that just healed him back to full-state. I don't think it gave him any special increasements above what he could normally do.

Fastest and strongest Batman since ever can't fall in misunderstandings, it is pretty obvious it is a level up. Plus, Scott Snyder in an interview says that, with this "new" Batman, there are a few badass things they can do.

@alexander505: If it doesn't explicitly say he's been metahumaned up, then I don't have to take that interpretation. It just seems like it's healed him from years of scar tissue instead like it's supposed to do.

@night_raven:

Actually, it's a misunderstanding that batman's unwillingness to kill makes him fight any less brutal. See, batman doesn't give a sh*t what he does to you. He will be as brutal as possible, he could go from breaking bones to out-right torture. As long as you don't die, he doesn't care. So batman's "no kill rule" won't be affecting his fight because he will still be slamming deathstroke's head into walls and stomping him out because his rule doesn't effect his fight that much. I mean seriously, he could throw you down a fight of stairs and jump off from the top and land straight down on your knees - breaking them.

And DS's armor isn't better. Batman's armor is almost completely bullet-proof(if I recall correctly). With the help of batman's armor he took 3 - 4 punches for 5 - 7 tonner bane. Now I'm not saying DS's armor is worse. It's just not better. Batman's armor has always been above military grade level. Because batman doesn't just run around in black and grey tights like he used to do. He actually had body armor. SIMILAR to the arkham knight one.

DS's enhanced physicals won't be playing that much of a role. :/ His physicals DO help him a bit, but batman's even trained his body to keep going for days, he trained his body to get a full 8 hours of sleep just in 3 hours. So batman's got the stamina of 3 days. xD

And batman's fighting skills definitely outclasses DS's. Did you know DS only knows 12 martial arts? DS learned from an expert. Batman learned from 6 masters. Get it? Expert, and Master, I'm PRETTY damn sure the Masters are better.

Want me to post some scans of batman's indomitable will? Because remember when DS left batman alive on that rooftop? Honestly, batman wouldn't have went down that easily after like 7 hits. xD

@alexander505:

@slayz

@night_raven

Alright alright, I understand now that me posting that PIS fight wasn't a good argument. So I'll be replacing the batman v JLA fight.

Although that fight could have been written better. :/

No, wasn't wrote anywhere he's a metahuman, that's an opinion, but that Batman got a level up is sure.

The metahuman hypothesis is based on: peak human level + level up by Dionisium. If the Joker with Dionisium (remember the last fight against Batman) can be take as example, then the boost here is pretty solid.

@night_raven: Oh and, I WAS going to post a scan of batman punching blockbuster, and blockbuster actually being affected by his punches and kicks and staggering, but I just figured you'd use "BAD WRITING" as an excuse again. :/ But it's pretty obvious you don't know much let alone anything about batman. :/

@alexander505: Dude, that's a great interpretation!

Batman is already PEAK human PLUS a level up? He is a meta human now. I didn't look at it the way you looked at it.

That's not how it works, that's not how ANY of this works!

Every time there is a Rebirth/New 52 type of thing, people say "oh yeah, our character is going to be better than ever before" and stuff like that, when quite frankly, they stay the same. It's just new feats.

It's hype. Nothing more.

Let's see what wanna do Snyder. What said Alfred in Batman 50, is interesting because, as the user, entropy_aegis said in a topic, now he has some more explanation why Batman is a peak human. It is a level up, sure, it is metahuman probably not, not officially, Batman is the same, and he always is a borderline metahuman.

@batmanplusjay: Yes he will still be brutal, but unlike him Slade will be using his guns, explosives, swords and any other lethal weaponry. AGAIN I'm not saying there's a clear winner, just that Slade should take a slight majority. What definitely isn't true is that Batman will 'rip him to pieces' as you're claiming.

Deathstroke has Nth metal armor which assists his healing factor. Where Batman took punches from Bane, Deathstroke took punches from Lobo. Slade's is also well above military grade. Batman's offers him other capabilities, but Slade's gives him more blunt force durability.

Again, I'm not claiming that Batman isn't hugely impressive physically, by feats he is definitely above peak human. Simply that Slade's enhancements and healing factor help to negate their difference in skill. Speaking of, I agreed that Batman is the better fighter. I was pointing out that Slade is much better than you give him credit for.

I don't know why you think I know nothing about Batman. Everyone else on this thread has the same issues with you trying to claim that JL fight as a legitimate feat, and pretty much everyone would agree that Deathstroke vs Batman is a close fight (with more people siding with Slade, but almost nobody else would claim that Batman wipes the floor with him).

Fair point. I doubt it's permanent, though. I'd be fine if it healed Batman to absolute peak level and he would function that way, but I'd hate for it to be a permanent thing. I like him better when's achieved the level he has and is just considered borderline superhuman. Should still be interesting to read though.

@night_raven:The JLA fight thing I posted I admit was a PIS filled fight like WW being kicked int he stomach and could have been better written so that's why I removed that fight and replaced it with another.

Also, I said you probably don't know anything about batman because you said WW throwing batman into a wall is an immediate KO... batman isn't a feather dude.

And true, DS does have lethal weapons. But Non-lethal gadgets could come in batman's favor. While DS uses grenades and guns and things that are useless((And I say they're useless because batman's been dodging bullets and grenades since like..ever. Hell, even Deadshot's been missing batman in point-blank range with an automatic)), while batman could cunningly just slip out a small and unnoticable freeze grenade on DS while in the middle of a CQC, while he's freezed, batman could activate electric shock gloves and shock the ice and DS inside. DS will get up feeling weakened after the shock and batman has the up-most upper advantage in the situation.

See, DS is very loud(sometimes) with the way he uses his weapons. That's why he doesn't usually bother wasting bullets and grenades on batman as he knows, they'll miss. And DS throwing a grenade is the worst thing he could do. A grenade will cause an explosion and leave an aftereffect of debris and smoke, a CLEAR sneak advantage for batman. That's why DS usually sticks to his swords and staff.

And true, batman won't "rip him apart". But batman certainly does have a 50% chance to win in a 1v1 or an even bigger chance of beating DS since batman's much more resourceful and skilled than the trained assassin. And because batman's also now a low-level meta-human because batman's already a peak human, but he's getting the Dionisium level-up.

@zer0-x: Agreed. As much as I want batman to be better and stronger, I don't want him to become a meta though. So I don't even hope it's temporary I just hope we're wrong altogether.

Or now he's a 100% peak human or is a meta, but may be temporary. My opinion? He will do something more badass then usual, and the authors never will say his exact level, so he's still a peak human, because no one can say otherwise, if it is not confirmed by the comic.

@batmanplusjay: Wonder Woman is a character that has the strength to compete with Superman-level opponents. She could throw him into orbit if she wanted, so me saying that she could KO Batman like that is not saying he's a feather at all. It is absolutely not an insult to say that WW could 1 hit KO Batman, or Slade for that matter, if she was properly motivated.

You keep coming up with these hypothetical scenarios like they're guaranteed outcomes. Look at the fights between Batman and Slade, they have typically been fairly level, with Slade taking the upper hand. In the scans you posted where Bats KOs Slade with his own sniper rifle, from what I've read Slade had already knocked him back a few times and was focussing on trying to assassinate someone else. Even with that as a victory for Batman (something I fully accept as possibly, just not expected in a majority out of 10), they're 1 for 1 in solo encounters. It's almost definitely exaggeration, but Slade claims he would've dispatched Batman in just a few moves if he wasn't hindered by the return of his eye in their last fight.

You can't just claim Batman is now a low-level meta because of the dionysium restoring him! Alfred literally says that what it did was heal his scarring, but that he will return to what he was as he gets new scars etc. He is in better condition than we've essentially ever seen Batman to be in, but that doesn't make him a de facto meta. He's always arguably been low-level meta by feats, in the same way someone like Black Panther used to be.

Once again I'll say a fight between Batman and Slade should be extremely close, particularly with Batman now being healed, but in no way is it a stomp in his favour. Look at any one of the many Batman vs Deathstroke fights on the vine - the consensus is that Slade is significantly superior, so with Batman's recovery, they'd now be on more of a level footing.

The story about the scars is just an excuse. Just think if Batman lose performance every time he gets injured, would be absurd. The same thing should be happen to characters like him.

That's how the human body works though. Bones and such can only be broken so many times before you start suffering issues, and as you age old injuries can continue to pain you for years afterwards. I think its silly to think that Bruce wouldn't have been slowed down by some of those things. In the average story however it wouldn't matter, because this is a comic book and Batman will go on forever. With the Dionesium however, this is a rare opportunity where it can be taken into account. Just like Joker was able to regrow his face from it, any scarring Bruce had should logically be completely gone.

I don't even see how Dionesium would've done any more than that when all it did was heal Joker, and he had access to it for months.