I have what I think is common sense when it comes to power scaling but just how strong is base Goku, because I saw this one guy said that current Base Goku/SSG Goku beats everything from GT while in my own opinion still believe Omega Shenron and SSJ4 Gogeta are >>>SSG and even SSB. I just would like to hear a legitimate argument please, thank you.

No he's not anywhere close to universal. By feats he's not even solar system or star level in destructive capacity.

Inb4 outliers.

Inb4 scaling.

Not even close to being anywhere near the ballpark of being universal.

This

if he was he would be stronger then Zeno...

Currently? whats your reasoning @thordinson@mainjp

@thekillerklok but Beerus is Universal yet Hes scared of Zeno and All the angels and the Grand Priest are stronger than each other respectively, so what exactly do you mean?

No.not even close.Toshio admit Not even Super saiyan Blue goku can't destroy the universe.

GoDs are potentially universal.

Angels are more powerful than GoDs in combat battle.But they can't destroy the universe.

GP possibly multi universal.

Zeno is multi universal.

What if they wish the universes destroyed by zeno back, and when the previous 6 don't come back they realise it was actually GP the one that destroyed them :O??

@galactic_1000 How could they not if they're stronger than GoDs?

But could I still please get an explanation on why or why not Base Goku is or isn't universal? Not trying to sound like a jerk, sorry if I am

@sasukelmao: I gave my reasoning in my answer here.

@sasukelmao: Angels are more powerful than GoDs in term of Battle but not in destructive power.

Goku never done on universal level alone.

Toshio state If Goku become GoDs then he might do it.

GoDs posses vast destructive power than anyone.Except Zeno,GP & Super Shenron.

@thordinson: fair enough. Do you believe that for all of DBS Goku's forms or just Base?

@galactic_1000: Fair. But I wouldn't take Toshio's reasoning, while he is a writer I'd say Toriyama or the series itself has more of an "official say".

And maybe not Base Goku but SSG Goku did cancel out Beerus's universe destroying shockwaves, and Current Base Goku should hypothetically be wayyy stronger than that so he should be universal; but other people say due to his feats Goku can't destroy a universe, especially in base. Both sides have good points and I'm just not so sure.

No the manga gave fuzed zamasu a galaxy level statement just like Akira gave perfect cell the solar system level statement.

Base goku definitely isn’t stronger than fused zamasu

If his base was universal what do level do you think he would become when he uses Kaioken x20?

Now compare that to anything you have ever seen zeno do and realize just how far you are off.

Ultra Instinct Goku is close to Universal, SSJ God's feat of shaking the universe alone would require thousands worth of galaxies of explosion.

@sasukelmao: All of his forms and same reasoning.

@sasukelmao: Doesn't matter It took both of them to shaje the universe.

GoDs are potentially universal & they are more powerful than goku.UI Goku is close to universal.

Every single show always make Hyper bole statment.

We don't have any creator's statement.So Toshio's is now some kind of official.

@thordinson said:

@thedeathstar: Oh hey its the same gif from days ago. Proving my point as per customary ??

@thordinson:

No he's not anywhere close to universal. By feats he's not even solar system or star level in destructive capacity.

do you think we are talking about naruto? I think you haven't seen dbz. I admit in base he probably isn't universal but not so low as starbuster, that is nemek frieza level of feat. cell was already confirmed to be solarsystem buster.

it also depends on what you want to say, if you think that his base form is as strong as his previous god form then he is universal, but if not then he isn't.

Not even close to galaxy level.

Base Goku? He's no where near Universal. The only version of Goku that's arguably Universal is Ultra Instinct.

@thekillerklok: not evn close you low baller, Zeno would still stomp him. Beerus would make him pay the Bills too.

@gaoron: That was Super Perfect Cell though.

The absolute most generous I'm willing to give goku is mid-muli galactic.

@thordinson: I’m pretty sure Base Goku now is >>>>>> Kid Majin Buu who is galaxy level. I agree he’s not universal, but he’s stronger than star level. Final Form Frieza from Namek saga should be star level and he past that level ages ago.

@thedarkpaladin: @skrskr: goku should be stronger than Kid Buu who was galaxy level.

come on guys, don't fall for obvious bait

this is why people make fun of us

@kasya_carey: Kid Buu isn't galaxy level either. Only in filler did he do something note like that. By feats nobody from DBS has proven themselves to be able to destroy a star on panel unless you use flawed scaling or outliers and high end feats. And Frieza isn't star level either.

@thordinson: frieza is definitely star level. First form one shitted a large planet. 2nd form is multi planet level. 3rd form is a bit more multi planet and final form should be small star level. 100% final form is star level.

@kasya_carey: No, see you're using scaling which is a flawed method only applicable in their verse. Give me a feat or showing of frieza busting a star and consistently putting him at that level. I'll wait.

@kasya_carey: Kid Boo wasn't galaxy level. It was implied that he destroyed one over time, but that was anime filler only.

@midnightdragon18: im not trying to troll though :'(

I'm sorry but Dragon Ball has been at the point where Goku cannot beat nearly any powerful enemy without transforming. For his Ki to be even considered Galaxy Level, he must use his super saiyan transformation to multiply his power. Thats just how it is. We've clearly seen at the 1 hour special episode of Goku vs Jiren, Goku didn't even begin to make Jiren tickle at his base form, SSJ1, SSJ2, SSJ3, or Super Saiyan Red. He had to use Super Saiyan Blue to inflict some kind of damage on him. Which ultimately still wasn't enough for Jiren. Base Goku at best is Planetary.

@jman88933: Now I wouldn't say Goku is that weak. Suppressed 1st Form Frieza can one shot planets ez. DBS Current Base Goku is undeniably stronger than that. Planetary at best is highly underestimating Goku right now

@sasukelmao: Thats understandable to a certain degree, but theres absolutely no evidence or implication that hes Galaxy level. As we've seen Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta (Who was comparable to Goku) die at a planetary explosion. If it comes down to base form, what instance is there showimg Goku being anywhere higher than Planetary? Or Multi-Planetary with my generosity.

Edit: SS Blue Goku even had a kamehameha wave struggle against Krillan, a character who is arguably planetary. Ki control or not, Krillan is barely even fast enough to dodge a bullet.

SS God/Saiyan Beyond God Goku is definitely weaker than Super Vegito by scaling from Kefla, and thus likely to be weaker than Super Buuhan as well. But hes stronger than SS3 Gotenks as Vegeta thrashed him. So no, he is not stronger than most GT characters, but GT has their own power scaling rules anw so not much point comparing between them.

SS God isn't universal either. He is around multi galaxy as seen from the ripples that threaten to destroy the living universe, together with Super Buuhan who is able to break dimensions and potentially destroy the living universe through chain reaction. Both seem like universal, but neither is really.

Base Goku is Planetary level.

Base Goku has already proven above, and tanks Star level attacks, 18m (Diameter) Blackhole while tired and broken.

@thordinson: I mean he’s above multi planet. His black hole feat puts him around large star level to solar system in base.

@thedarkpaladin: ^^^

@kasya_carey: Who are you arguing with, he thinks Beerus is mountain level lmao.

@thedeathstar: really? Beerus is at least moon level if you down play like you said that person does.