Goku vs Naruto, equalized stats

Goku's best "skill feats" are him pretending to act like an animal against Roshi, right?

@precrisisbardock said:

@comicstooge said:

@precrisisbardock said:

@thedarkpaladin said:

@comicstooge: What has Kakashi done h2h that would imply he's superior to Goku?

Nothing at all.

Goku's best "skill feats" are him pretending to act like an animal against Roshi, right?

I remember how Goku "inventing a fighting style" in the middle of a fight was hyped up as the epitome on his skill in a discussion, but it was literally just this:

@comicstooge: It was just him copying Roshi's drunken fist and putting a twist on it. Whoever told you it was the epitome of his skill is retarded.

:(

NickZ's pretty cool though.

TECHNIQUES: The cellular nature of the Wind Rasenshuriken isn't much different than ki, which can easilly destroy on a cellular or arguably greater level depending on output. Spirit bomb isn't an option here for several reasons, and Naruto can just go grab Roshi's glasses if Goku uses Solar Flare, now that he's lightspeed :p Shadow clones would seem an issue at first, but Goku's ki sense would give him similar proximity detection to the Byakugan, but without the detail. Still, it won't be easy sneaking a big obvious ball of energy up behind him when he can basically see it. With equal stats, they can likely just be one shot to the point where it costs more power to summon them than it does for Goku to punch/kick/occasionally ki burst them to death. However, for small scale strategies they could prove useful in conjunction with transformation jutsu. Goku's Instant Transmission would allow him similar abilities as Sasuke, but without the wait. While Naruto has shown he can react to teleportation, Sasuke usually entered with h2h whereas Goku's style is more to teleport in and erase everything in front of him with a Hawaiian King's Wave. This is a problem for Naruto. Kuramazilla could help, with equal stats chances are they'd cancel out. Naruto would probably be fine as long as he escape out the back and left chakra Kurama to "die".

ENERGY OUTPUT: Naruto's overbearing nature and lack of restriction would probably result in him using more power per attack than Goku. However, Goku is also able to reach deep enough within himself to draw out so much of his power at once that it causes himself damage. Acquiring more power for Naruto is more of a negotiation with Kurama and through that he doesn't normally push himself to the same extreme extremes as Goku. Therefore, it would be safe to say Naruto would be attacking heavier more consistently, but Goku would be capable of putting more power into a particular attack than Naruto.

ENERGY CONSERVATION: Conserving chakra was never really Naruto's strong suit. He did so against Pain...with alot of help, guidance, and prep...and then he went on to give handouts to the entire Shinobi Alliance and make shadow clones when he knew he wasn't supposed to. He is, as I described, overbearing and loves to pour huge amounts of chakra into crazy large scale jutsu. Goku, on the other hand, is nearly a master of conserving energy for the final decisive finish, and even more so with his pre-cell games SSJ1 training. He is almist always holding back and normally only uses as much energy as necessary and saves the rest for a finishing blow. However, Naruto does have the option of having Kurama gather Sage Chakra to replenish his reserves, but at a lesser rate than he spends it in intense combat and it is usually only good for a couple attacks per clip.

FIGHTING STYLE: Naruto goes in for solid single shots and short heavy combos, Goku (when he knows he cant one-shot) plays the defense and grinds, whittling his opponents with flurries of quick strikes and long winded juggles. Goku's speed has always been his strength, though Naruto's techniques (particularly throwing invisible punches and chakra hands) allow him to close the gap. However, while Naruto actually learned some moves, Goku is basically all base stats. Yea, he has some gag moves, but as far as his h2h goes hes mostly good at...punching and kicking. Punching and kicking. Grinding the grind. When all else fails, the grind will be there. While Naruto is intuitive, Goku has learned techniques by seeing them once. Once he acclimates to what Naruto can do...the grind is all that's left.

Summary: Goku wins by picking his shots and outlasting Naruto. Naruto may be able to replenish chakra and hit hard often, but Goku is the guy who fought Freeza. Naruto will wear down far quicker than what Goku is ready for on his best day, and as crafty as Naruto is its not much different than the whacky things that the Dragonball antagonists pull. We've seen people split apart into other people, transform, regenerate, grow new arms, grow extra arms, throw energy balls, shapeshift into basically anything, hide and sneak, have infinite stamina, grow really big...Naruto isn't bringing much that Goku isn't ready for. Naruto's top tier upgrades include flight, blasting nukes, manipulating chakra(ki)...this is the bare minimum of being a Z fighter. Or even a normal Freeza soldier. Naruto's skill and versatility make him a formidable competetor here, but his skillset is not very different from what Goku already knows. In the end, I believe Goku's mastery of the basics of fighting and natural intuition will overcome Naruto's headstrong assault and improvisation. Naruto is a Shonen protagonist. Goku is a parody of a Shonen protagonist. His "The Ace" trope is of comedic proportions.

The thread you mentioned yourself (linked in comment 145) shows you're wrong on all three counts.

Vegeta has dealt with far greater martial artist like goku who has greater H2H feats with skill than anybody in naruto.

And naruto has dealt with sasuke. Same argument can be used for either side.

Same with this thread.

...exactly.

Wouldn't that be Guy instead?

Naruto characters don't have the skill to move their limbs like dbz characters. Speed equalized means nothing for combat.

Sasuke has no h2h skill feats that can compare to dbz lol. That's your problem. We've already discussed this. And I know you really don't wanna try and match Sasuke or naruto to kid goku h2h feats skill. They already can't outmatch vegeta in h2h who lacks any real flashy attacks, but drops people with actual martial arts skills.

You're better off arguing Might Gai, who would still lose.

Show me naruto/sasuke split wood into 8 pieces with one kick

@comicstooge: Come on now.. Goku has beaten some of the best martial artists on the planet in h2h combat when he was just a boy.

Mercenary Tao.

King Chappa.

Not to metion he took on an entire army by himself.

Those are just a few examples. He's only improved since then.

What has Kakashi done again?

Nevermind, just looked at your video. Still isn't near as impressive as Goku.

@comicstooge: @thedarkpaladin: Kakashi has some good h2h feats and the Obito vs Kakshi fight was good but all it was is flashy moves. Is that novel good?

Edit I take the flashy moves thing back but still Goku>Kakashi h2h

They do, actually.

Speed equalized means nothing for combat.

...wow. Just.. wow. Try a thor vs goku cav with equalized speed and say that.

We've already discussed this.

Yes. And This has already been disproved in the thread:

Sasuke has no h2h skill feats that can compare to dbz lol. That's your problem.

They already can't outmatch vegeta in h2h who lacks any real flashy attacks, but drops people with actual martial arts skills.

no point doing that all over again.

And I know you really don't wanna try and match Sasuke or naruto to kid goku h2h feats skill.

That wouldn't be even necessary, equalized stats, naruto's versatility wrecks goku.

You're better off arguing Might Gai, who would still lose.

He's not in the thread, and has less feats to go from anyway.

Show me naruto/sasuke split wood into 8 pieces with one kick

Why? their stats are equalized here, being able to shatter wood, interesting as it is, is a strength feat - not a skill feat.

Naruto, more versatile and better energy reserves.

"Best martial artists" on the planet is relative. Throwing out names is pointless

His exchanges with Hidan, who only needed a drop of Kakashi's blood to win and is immortal (making a counterattack pointless):

Gallery

And some gifs of his fight against Kakazu:

Gallery

And again, the fight with Obito:

Naruto takes it due to versatility.

I loved it.

@princearagorn1: naruto versatility? what clones? Those get easily dealt with do to their lack of durability. If you mention 3 different types of rasengan, I"M DONE.

@juzacloud:

naruto versatility?

Naruto's versatility*

what clones? Those get easily dealt with do to their lack of durability.

And receiving damage in return.

There's a CAV going on about this - we can go for a parallel on if you're feeling confident.

If you mention 3 different types of rasengan,

No reason to, really.

I"M DONE.

exactly like the other thread, just much sooner.

@mudamudamuda: Kaio-Ken has not "wrecked his body" since the Saiyan Saga...just saying

Nick said that? I don't believe ya

@precrisisbardock: http://www.comicvine.com/forums/off-topic-5/who-is-the-better-martial-artist-goku-or-batman-1611022/

Yeah I see Mystic Prince and others saying that, but I wouldn't say they're saying it's the epitome of his skill.

@princearagorn1:

Why would you ask me to a CAV knowing my tolerance for nonsense is lower than your debating skills? Especially for equalized stats threads. I'll never do a CAV for a DBZ character on this site lol. Maybe for beerus once DBS is done.

If you wanna do a CAV, I've thought about using Guyver or Pernida. I need to catch up on my guyver chapters though and see where he stands.

@juzacloud:

Why would you ask me to a CAV

Because you seemed confident of your stand.

knowing my tolerance for nonsense is lower than your debating skills?

far lower indeed - ironically it's still much higher than your debating skills.

but you manage surviving your own posts, which are nothing but nonsense - Anything else isn't much of a problem.

Especially for equalized stats threads. I'll never do a CAV for a DBZ character on this site lol. Maybe for beerus once DBS is done.

lol indeed.

If you wanna do a CAV, I've thought about using Guyver or Pernida. I need to catch up on my guyver chapters though and see where he stands.

I was wondering if another cav could be spun off from this thread.

@mudamudamuda: kiaoken puts strain on the body, goku trained in 100x gravity. His got use ti the strain, have you ever watched dbz by any chance ?

Let us see:

They both have Chakra/Ki sensing.

Teleportation - Goku

Energy Blast - Goku can do both wide and narrow beam attacks, while Naruto can do a spherical, small or large rasengan infused with elements or Tailed Beast Bomb.

Flight - Does not matter since speed is equalized.

Giving it to Goku due to I.T. + Any attack spam.

EX. Instant Kamehameha

@comicstooge: None of the people you posted him fighting against are impressive in the h2h category.

Even teen Goku had more impressive showings..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ_lcwVQyec

I'll join in the discussion. Note, PreCrisisBardok and RoyRogersmcFreely, do not read this until your debate is done. H2H:

Counters to Goku's techniques:

Okay, first and foremost, Goku does have the ability to use ki to enhance his attributes (just like Naruto with body flicker). This gives a power advantage to Goku, and although he can use Kaioken, Naruto's clones counter this. Goku has no method of knowing the original, and Naruto's incredibly deceptive with them, capable of fooling highly observant and veterinary foes. Goku's chances of getting the real Naruto are slim, he'll get bogged down by clones, and he'll wear himself down quickly with Kaioken.

Second, there's Solar Flare, which can blind opponents. That's nice, but it isn't anything Naruto's high-level sensing hasn't coped with, and he's literally fought enemies he can't see at all with sensing alone (Madara no less).

Gallery

Basically, Naruto will laugh such tactics off.

As for Instant transmission, that requires concentration. When fighting a mob of clones more or less his physical equals (as per the conditions), he may very well have difficulty doing that. Additionally, yet again, this won't have an effect on Naruto, as he, and even his clones, have reacted to teleporting attacks from opponents of equal, or greater speed than themselves.

Gallery

As for after image, that shouldn't be effective after all, Naruto can sense things through a separate dimension interacting with the ordinary one. His senses shouldn't be fooled so easily.

When it's all said in done, if Naruto and Goku are equalized, Naruto has a counter for every one of Goku's abilities, and can kill him with an FRS once he inevitably gets an opening. Naruto wins this fight.

that temptation though

@princearagorn1:

It's supposed to be the opposite.

Hahaha so current Goku is now apparently an avid user of the Kaio Ken Technique which he hasn't used since Namek? Are we being real here?

Naruto either spams clones and tries to get a ransengan off which won't work due to Goku's Ki sensing and teleportation abilities.

If you say Goku gets KO'ed by one ransengan then you're saying Naruto gets KO'ed by one ransengan. Which I'm sure is false.

If you're saying Goku can't react to clone spam +Ransengan spam then you're of course saying Naruto can't react to it. And Goku's Ki sensing has proved it's better than Naruto's precog anyways.

Goku won't be using Kaio any time soon. Slim chance, and I mean very slim chance he gets off a Solar Flare, pretty sure he wont use that either. Goku is currently being taught martial arts by an old @ss god who has seen most of what the universe has to offer, it's no doubt he's better at H2H. He'll just pressure point destroy, focus his energy into his elbow and afterimage technique fck Naruto up, instant transmission spam, punch the air and send a shockwave out, scream at the air to block anything Naruto throws at him.... Just too many possible ways for Goku to win realistically. Stop debating for techniques he never uses guys c'mon.

Knives can cut at cellular levels I'm not even sure what that means lol.

Goku's just more experienced with his power and speed, he has enough ways to make this work.

-My try hard not fanboy unbiased response

Goku doesn't have much going for him here...

Some knives cut at a molecular level. Honestly Ransen Shuriken can't even cut as cleanly as an obsidian knife.

Not trying to downplay the move..... Just trying to remove the "up-play" from the move. You guys are throwing around the words "Cut at a cellular level" a wee bit too much for my liking.

As for the battle, Naruto needs to land multiple solid ransengans to win, and I'm not really seeing that ever happen.

Naruto fanboys sigh

Goku is more skilled figher than naruto will ever be

rasegn this rasegn that lol

Goku has beaten his own master in martial arts as a child, he can learn techniques just by looking at them once

kid goku would win

while naruto still figuring out a name for his attack

@marshall_long: :/

A lot of that involves physicals and ki. 99% of that was just spamming punches and kicks.

@comicstooge: He's taken out martial arts masters since he was a kid. Are you trolling...?

INB4 martial arts masters in dbz have no quantifiable feats for all we know they could suck at martial arts altogether in the dbverse

Again, it's relative. The title "master" means little.

Kakashi's fights are smoother and more reflective of actual fighting skill.

@comicstooge: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Bruhhhh lmfao.

Naruto's clones should give him the edge.

@iusemycajonas: Other than being the better fighter, he'll eventually get overwhelmed by Narutos versatility.

@marshall_long: Refer to post #182.

Also, what versatility?

@comicstooge: I'm not going to try to convince you, since you seem to be downplaying Goku.

But the vid I just linked still trumps anything you posted for Kakashi.

Spite match. Goku wrecks no matter what technique Naruto uses. Equalized stats doesn't mean Naruto can match Goku.

No. It was either just spamming punches/kicks or using energy attacks. Nothing impressive.

@thedarkpaladin: Just leave him be. Honestly I've learned he's a waste of time.

Anyways no Naruto supporters feel like countering post #182? Alright cool. Goku wins.

@iusemycajonas: Yeah, he appears to be trolling anyway.

@iusemycajonas: With speed equalized and also durability I don't see Goku dodging, or tanking multiple Tailed beast Rasenshurikens. The only way Goku would have a chance is if he utilized his Instant Transmission in battle, as a matter of fact Goku might win here.