We are agreed that Jean is a strong telepath. She's not just as powerful as Emma, and she certainly isn't anywhere near Storm's power levels. Even Xavier and Shadow King aren't as powerful as Ororo, to be honest, and Jean doesn't have any feats to come anywhere near Xavier and SK.

You may not like it, but the fact is Storm was given power levels from the start to match Phoenix Force Jean Grey, and she has feats in canon to back that up. Jean without the Phoenix Force simply does not compare.

Regarding Gamesmaster, he is nowhere near as strong as Xavier or Shadow King either. It took all of his power just to mind control a city. Xavier and Shadow King can mind control the entire population of Earth. Sorry, but Jean is a joke compared to these two as is Gamesmaster.

IIRC, the reason Gamesmaster feared Jean is because when he did his mind-control thing over a city, he felt that Jean would be a strong enough telepath to sense the telepathic lie and do something about it. It doesn't necessarily put Jean on his level either considering his power would be spread out controlling every mind (including hers) when she finally pieced together what was going on. I'd imagine by the time she tried to stop him at that point, he would probably be exhausted after the effort. It should be noted in that same issue, Emma Frost was stated to be powerful enough to put the mental whammy on the city Gamesmaster did.

Regarding the Goblin Queen, she was MUCH more powerful than Jean. In Inferno, she was able to create a telekinetic shield HUNDREDS of times stronger than Jean's: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Zjse_bl-aBOI3AcLBMf6ilghcWHDvL6UJUYIVUwYeVfIL-uF62dSLrYZeYNbVFmXCwa4Tcim7xqU=s1600

As far as the Black Bolt claim, I've never seen Jean hold out his power save for that punch in X-Men Red, but his power levels are written all over the place.

Again, we have never seen Jean do anything approaching Storm's high end feats (blowing up a herald of Galactus when the combined power of Silver Surfer and Human Torch couldn't come anywhere near the damage Storm did against that same herald; creating a gamma-powered elemental shield around the entire planet, deflecting a world-wrecking blast from the sun; dispersing a hemisphere-sized hurricane with a wave of her hands (it's harder for her to disperse storms than to create them); channeling a continent-sized blizzard through her body; creating wind force powerful enough to redirect the full power of Sienna Blaze; throwing attacks backed by the full power of a star; summoning the full power of a galactic core; etc.)

As for the white hole instance, Jean was powerless to do anything about the white hole. Silver Surfer had the save the day. Storm's powers, on the other hand, would have been able to easily remedy the entire situation.

Oh lord are we stills trying to imply that Jean cant sit with the other girls when she has clearly earned her seat at the table?

And like Storm wouldn't fry a bitch who gave Jean side eye anyways. #TheSisterhood #YouWillNotTouchHer

@kasya_carey@malachi_munroe@son_of_storm@koays@elpendejo@pyrofn Stormcell is officially CANCELLED

This entire experience has been like going to house of someone you dont like and finding out their family are pretty cool.

You storm fans aren't so bad.

Sorry about your pet troll.

@koays: it also felt like a funeral for a person nobody liked

@stormcell: it’s like I’m talking to a wall ....

@corapvp: I'm the truth-speaker. Some of you are lost in the darkness of misinformation perpetrated on the message boards by other fanbases who exaggerate the showings of their favorite characters. But don't worry, here's the good news: Good ole Stormcell is on the case. I will shout the truth from the mountain top until the truth takes root, for I know that the truth shall set you free. I am here to free the masses from the deception that Jean is as powerful as some claim. I burn away the deceptions with actual canon and leave only the truth exposed. I do this not out of spite, but out of love for my fellow man. Now, in the spirit of truth, it's Emma>>>Jean, and Storm>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jean.

@kasya_carey: That's because I stand on the bedrock of facts by providing canon feats to prove my point...and I don't budge when I'm in the right.

@son_of_storm: I never said that Storm and Jean weren't friends. They most certainly are, and Storm would totally take down somebody for messing with Jean. On your point, we are agreed.

@malachi_munroe: Jean doesn't have any feats that comes anywhere near Storm's high end feats. That's just a fact. I would compromise and say that Jean could sit at the table with Emma (though Emma is considerably more powerful Jean, in my opinion, based on feats...).

But, seriously, guys, these discussions are supposed to be fun. Heck, most of the time I'm posting on the boards, I'm sitting here laughing in front of my computer as I type away. Sure, I know that I'm right, but people should lighten up and just have fun with the debates whether we agree or disagree. That's what I'm doing, and I can tell you it makes things so much more fun.

And finally, this guy:

Oh, please. Personal insults? You're better than that, and I will not stoop to this level of conversation. Whether you agree with me or not, the one unassailable fact is I have scans to back my claims. Also, let's not pretend that other fanbases will ever give Storm her due even when confronted with scans of her actually doing feats that many of us cite her doing. There is a strong bias against Storm's character for some reason, and I, for one, will not let that get in the way of me standing my ground with the facts. I will not compromise on the magnitude of Storm's feats to appease other fanbases.

Butterflys and her Storm alts trolling as always...

Nothing new here people.

@stormcell: define a high end feat? Because again you’re comparing telepathy which requires no destructive capacity to Storm powers which can actually cause that.

I haven't seen Jean do anything in her sphere of power that comes close to what Storm has done in her sphere of power. For instance, when taken at her best, Storm has reserves of power that would be massive even by cosmic standards. Meanwhile, Jean's psi-powers doesn't even compare with the likes of Xavier, X-Man, Shadow King, Legion, Exodus, Emma (if we are really going to be honest in making a feat comparison between the two), Onslaught (when he only had a portion of Xavier's powers), Cassandra Nova (when Nova was written at Morrison power levels...Rosenberg's Nova didn't come across nearly as powerful as Morrison's take on the character) and others.

Jean loses most of her psi-battles with other telepaths (she even got taken over by Typhoid Mary recently), yet we see Storm blowing up a Herald of Galactus in the same issue where the combined power of Human Torch and Silver Surfer couldn't come anywhere near what Storm did. We see Phoenix Force Jean Grey defeat Firelord by throwing an attack at him backed by the power of a star, yet we see Storm throw an even more powerful attack a few issues earlier where Ororo threw an attack backed by the FULL power of a star. Storm has topped even Dark-Phoenix feats in canon while Jean hasn't done anything to even approach Dark Phoenix power levels. Heck, we even saw Storm sew a reality back together when it was coming apart at its seams after she wielded energy on a scale to defeat three beings who were the sum of all matter/life/energy for that entire reality's past/present/future. I would easily classify that feat on the same level as White Phoenix of the Crown editing the timeline for a reality, if not surpassing WPoTC's feat.

Clearly, these telepaths who have proven to be much stronger than Jean are not cosmically powerful, while Storm is. This puts Jean FAR FAR FAR below Storm's powerclass if you look at it objectively.

Jean simply doesn't have the feats to compare with Storm's higher showings, and I don't think it's fair to Storm's fanbase to try and claim otherwise.

Appropriate for the moment.

@shepardoakenprime said:

Appropriate for the moment.

I'm all for the sisterhood thing. I'm just saying that people need to be honest and admit that next to Storm's power levels, Jean doesn't compare. Storm is leagues above Jean's powerclass. That's all.

@stormcell said:

@shepardoakenprime said:

Appropriate for the moment.

I'm all for the sisterhood thing. I'm just saying that people need to be honest and admit that next to Storm's power levels, Jean doesn't compare. Storm is leagues above Jean's powerclass. That's all.

Which would be fine, but this process looks very similar to the trolls who spam Storm losing in any battles to the point of creating mismatches and bumping old threads. It's fair to have your own opinions and state what you feel about Storm being treated unfairly compared to Jean, but this constant battle of Jean loses here and failed to do this etc is just too much. I simply don't understand why you would make fun of users from another thread, bring it in here and bad mouth them in your thread that has nothing to do with Jean vs Emma, honestly the half of the op shouldn't be in this forum. If you wanna talk about Jean then great, just please move it over to her board instead of bringing it here and giving trolls excuses to make fun of us once again. You wanna talk about how different her and Ororo are being treated in the comics then that's more than fair and a concern I'm even having at the moment, but its looking to be more than that.

You can obviously say this as much as you like, but people, especially here, are not going to be honest or hell admit that they're wrong about Storm, as is their right which is sometimes frustrating but something we're going to deal with just like everyone. Starting drama, mocking and constantly looking at the negatives of a character is something that us Storm fans are all too similar dealing with, and its unfortunate that I'm seeing it here but the other way around.

@shepardoakenprime said:

@stormcell said:

@shepardoakenprime said:

Appropriate for the moment.

I'm all for the sisterhood thing. I'm just saying that people need to be honest and admit that next to Storm's power levels, Jean doesn't compare. Storm is leagues above Jean's powerclass. That's all.

Which would be fine, but this process looks very similar to the trolls who spam Storm losing in any battles to the point of creating mismatches and bumping old threads. It's fair to have your own opinions and state what you feel about Storm being treated unfairly compared to Jean, but this constant battle of Jean loses here and failed to do this etc is just too much. I simply don't understand why you would make fun of users from another thread, bring it in here and bad mouth them in your thread that has nothing to do with Jean vs Emma, honestly the half of the op shouldn't be in this forum. If you wanna talk about Jean then great, just please move it over to her board instead of bringing it here and giving trolls excuses to make fun of us once again. You wanna talk about how different her and Ororo are being treated in the comics then that's more than fair and a concern I'm even having at the moment, but its looking to be more than that.

You can obviously say this as much as you like, but people, especially here, are not going to be honest or hell admit that they're wrong about Storm, as is their right which is sometimes frustrating but something we're going to deal with just like everyone. Starting drama, mocking and constantly looking at the negatives of a character is something that us Storm fans are all too similar dealing with, and its unfortunate that I'm seeing it here but the other way around.

First of all, the reason I created this thread was because on CBR, there was a huge mess over there concerning Xavier mindwiping Jean (which he should be able to do since he is far more powerful than she). Jean fans got all up in arms about it and harassed the writer for over 8 hours after the issue hit the stands behind this. The writer made the comment that Jean was stronger than Xavier, but was just tired, or caught by surprise, or some other nonsense that clearly wasn't in the context of what he actually wrote. Afterwards, I came down hard on the writer for tweeting that comment out. Butterflykyss told me I was directing my criticisms at the wrong party and shared his belief that the writer was merely trying to get the Jean fans off his back. After he explained his reasoning to me, I eased my criticisms of the writer.

Later on, the writer wrote something else about Jean, and I came to the realization that Kyss was right in what he said to me. So, I created this thread to give him credit for his intuition, and cited the reason why based on what the writer wrote after the issue that caused so much debate.

That said, the reason I brought the other post to this thread is because we got yet another instance of a Jean fan complaining in a tweet to the writer when she lost to Cassandra Nova. Nova has always been much more powerful than Jean, so her beating Jean was totally the realistic outcome. I was merely pointing out a pattern of Jean fans going at writers when she loses to other psis (which is in keeping with the majority of her showings...she loses the vast majority of her fights with other telepaths). So, to recap, I wasn't picking fun of Jean when I brought the post here, but merely showing a pattern.

Moving on, what Storm-detractors do to Storm is not what I'm doing to Jean by any stretch of the imagination. Here's a post I directed at a Jean fan:

1) Your side claims that Jean Grey, with her own powers, ripped the fragment of the Phoenix Force out of Emma Frost in Endsong when Jean flat out says that wasn't the case right there on panel. She was connected to the Phoenix Force at that point, and that was why she was able to pull that fragment out of Emma, hence she told the PF, "I am you," on top of everything else she said in the panels I pointed out.

2) Your side tried to claim that Jean Grey was not amped by the Phoenix Force when she confronted Emma in New X-Men #139, though the issue blatantly states that Jean was possessed by the PF and her powers were boosted by it.

3) Your side always tries to cite panels where it was stated that Jean was the second most powerful telepath after Xavier, yet want to ignore the fact that while those things were being written by her, she consistently lost nearly all of her psychic fights with other high order psis...and when I say she "lost", I mean she got decimated. It wasn't even close. Therefore, those on-panel statements are nullified by her actual showings when compared to other psis.

4) Your side wants to take low-end showings of other psis, ignoring their high-end feats while trying to use Phoenix Force-possessed Jean Grey feats as normal Jean feats. Even when this is pointed out to your side, they continue on that path because it's the only way Jean can win.

And I can probably list a lot more if I wanted to sit here and think about it, but this is sufficient to prove my point.

In the case with the Storm-detractors, they want to ignore aspects of her powerset and even ignore her mental defenses against telepaths whenever she goes against Jean Grey. I mean, let's face it, once a character has demonstrated mental defenses strong enough to best the likes of Xavier and Shadow King, it's game over for Jean if she hopes to win against said character with her telepathy without PIS coming into play or some outside source of power boosting Jean to win. Both Xavier and SK dwarf Jean's psi-powers if you honestly compare their feats, yet Jean fans ignore those high showings with Storm and want to pick out instances where her mental defenses were ignored to win a Storm v Jean debate. Then, some try and make the ridiculous claim that Jean is equal to or more powerful than Xavier. However, when I bring up that Shadow King and Xavier are strong enough telepaths to mind-control billions of minds at once scattered across the planet, or the time Xavier projected his astral form a great distance to converse with Galactus, and then channeled the hopes and dreams of 8,000,000,000 minds all at once into Galactus's mind while conversing with him from that great distance away, or when Xavier waged psychic warfare on all the infinite planes of existence at the same time, or the time when he telepathically contacted the X-Men when they were half a star system away from him, or any number of other high-end Xavier feats, literaly, they either want to try and ignore those instances since Jean can't compete with what Xavier did in those instances, or they try and use Phoenix Force feats for Jean which don't count.

So, you really can't equate me to them. I ignore PIS stuff and tell the truth, they twist things any way they can to try and get Jean the win. It's a nasty double-standard on their part.

Also, some of us just had a Storm vs. Jean debate in the battle thread about a week or so ago. I want to arm Storm fans with knowledge about Jean's true power levels for future debates on this and other boards so they can defend themselves against false claims concerning Jean's actual power levels.

I wish you would stop replying to people with long responses .....

You can skip over my posts...

@stormcell: but I don’t want to

You’re going on about non sense like cut it out

X-Men Unlimited #28

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5SEyfY1P5y8/VxSiUTbtwCI/AAAAAAAAEpM/qrcGuVSnd0EX0GcuYvFhdAdR9GGjdO4cQCCo/s1600-Ic42/RCO008.jpg

Storm called the strongest X-Man present among Revolution Jean (she had no TK, but her TP was boosted with the addition of Psylocke's TP coupled with her own), Beast, Cable, and Gambit

@stormcell: great find!

Since Emma is a part of this thread, I thought I'd put some Emma feats here:

Emma's psi powers protects the minds of the X-Men from both Sinister and Exodus while she was many miles away from the fight itself:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/oFPMV6yTLrDtQ0AAzDv30eBSwfVjkDI3pxVbHTTSrnUDYkUiwYm0Re02jjwSu-TtesFU7cGUO6sO=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/cplb9Clciyixf9jnCadJEVRfK3ubEcQjPfTy9y_cDDNOK6XqicqZUo948Vw64AHVLOuTr846ND0U=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/fIS8qOjFzLH74D3nJSJPdiEAwqddUsnNCrYCdgd2AzYSNxmqLxVkAiR7f1vbK_l53Jc83Hj2wy2M=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Wg3Cu5RO6MO9M55-tcqInqrpccOodiwpodqOEaPi__1XKTu7zKTFmRZ1VpyHv2zCefF5-pTlqIT=s1600

Notice in the scans how Ororo says the main threats are Vertigo and Scrambler. I guess that's because Emma's TP power neutralized the threats of both Sinister and Exodus.

Gotta love Mike Carey because the same guy who wrote the scans above also said this about Emma's power levels:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-MWoLffhBablhun4L8nWweic1wN9uMRUq44CGRviLOTgvAPCk18Kj7JafZqEKPn116XauQ93TN9m=s1600

when the 1st 3 commenters are also the 3 people that got banned lmao

What do you mean? Kyss is still active, even today as well and the third commentary and I am not even sure why you brought this up after a year.

No, they aren’t. They are active on Twitter, but they are not active here. They are insinuating how the top three are so toxic that the mods end up banning all three of them because of their constant behavior of ruining the peace.

They were a problem for multiple people and things have been a lot calmer since their bans. So you can’t be surprised that there are people who either feel ire to the mention of them or just like to make fun of the stupidity they would bring to forums.

I know both of them, and they both are quite good peeps, but they do get annoyed and irritated when people depower Storm and empower other heroes just to make themselves feel good. Especially when they've provided scans and people just try to rewrite or understand it differently and not in the way it is clearly stated. I've run in a lot of toxic behaviour towards Storm fans here, and for a reason. People just hate on Storm and love to depower her for some reason, even though her feats and accomplishments speak otherwise. I am just not sure what the people's problem is with Storm. Some say it is due to her being a powerful black woman, others say it is because of other fans. But honestly, I haven't seen anything bad from neither Kyss, nor Stormcell. Well perhaps from Stormcell a bit, when she compares Storm to the White Phoenix, but other than that, they are both cool. Just don't depower Storm and read the scans as they are, and everything will be peaceful. But now, due to all that, you can see how wasted the Storm forum is when two of her biggest fans aren't around here to keep it active.

1) “they do get annoyed”

If it was minor annoyance that prompts their past actions, I don’t wanna know about what happens when they are pissed. Fact of the matter is what they did was not okay and no amount of irritation justifies that kind of behavior over their favorite character.

2) “irritated when people depower Storm and empower other heroes just to make themselves feel good”

If people low-ball Storm now, it’s because of how they handled it when they were on here. I know for a fact that people realistically are not so stupid as to think Storm is a weak character. Her high ends are absurd and she has had stories spanning decades that show of her power.

Nowadays, people low-ball to spite those Storm fans of the past as a meme. That is a product of their own doing. Not anyone else’s. Hell, I’ve learned so much about Storm through the debates had and discussions, when they seriously look at her strengths and weaknesses. These people don’t do that in the slightest. They highlight the strengths to a limitless degree as if it makes them untouchable.

3) “Especially when they've provided scans and people just try to rewrite or understand it differently and not in the way it is clearly stated.”

I won’t say it’s untrue and I can sympathize with that struggle.

I do not sympathize with them imitating that behavior because this exactly what they did before on multiple occasions.

4) “I've run in a lot of toxic behaviour towards Storm fans here, and for a reason. People just hate on Storm and love to depower her for some reason”

It’s definitely not the character itself people have a problem with. Whether they have a relative distaste or just don’t care, the problems didn’t come about from Storm as a character. In fact, I am pretty sure most are readily able to admit her status as among the most powerful and popular X-Men.

No, this behavior you see now is a reaction. A consequence of the past.

5) “I am just not sure what the people's problem is with Storm”

Yo, @god_spawn, @koays, and @professorrespect this conversation has been pretty amicable so far. You think it’s alright to answer about the past behavior of the users that might have garnered such a rep? I know you’ve spoken before, but things are chill here and this one actually seems confused about the stigma.

6) “Some say it is due to her being a powerful black woman”

From what I have heard about Kyss, this sounds like something they would claim.

Think reasonably here. How long has Storm been around? How popular is Storm? What are peoples general reactions to the “Black Lives Matter” movement in recent years? Are you honestly gonna believe the idea that in this society that people would have a problem with Storm for her ethnicity and gender?

Some of the people who have argued against Kyss are black themselves. If there are people like that, it’s so minuscule that they would sooner be crucified by an overwhelming majority of X-Men fans before even having the chance to finish their rankings.

7) “But honestly, I haven't seen anything bad from neither Kyss, nor Stormcell”

You can get a monumental amount fo stories from multiple users about these two’s activities. Even with actual screenshots of the conversations they have had. Even the mod who has to always stay partial to uphold the rules of the forums has spoken against their actions.

What they used to do is far from innocent and is usually antagonistic.

7) “Well perhaps from Stormcell a bit, when she compares Storm to the White Phoenix, but other than that, they are both cool”

A bit? That understating it to an enormous degree and you know full well it is.

8) “But now, due to all that, you can see how wasted the Storm forum is when two of her biggest fans aren't around here to keep it active”

It’s a pity I don’t sympathize with. I feel bad for the other Storm fans who are no longer around after all the crap that was dealt to them because of the users of the past, but the liveliness of the Storm forums was not held up by the arms of Kyss or stormcell.

@The92Ghost: stormcell is female?

also what is this thread lmao

@pyrofn: I don’t care. Go ahead and tell whatever stories.

@pyrofn

I will not be entering into a pointless argument. I have high respect for both @butterflykyss and @stormcell. Even though I have disagreed with both of them on multiple occasions, but I've never reached the point of pure hatred or fight with them. We had our disagreement, but when you explain to them why you disagree, they accept your point of agreement.

Look, I love Storm, but let's not drag people who are probably not interested in something which happened years ago. But this right here:

"when the 1st 3 commenters are also the 3 people that got banned lmao"

That is not cool, and I will leave it at that.

@pyrofn: Knock yourself out. I've seen plenty and it's not like people already don't do that.

it's facts is what it is. The fact that storm fans added us to a PM telling us to disregard stormcell and butterflykyss...LMAO

I still don't see how Storm is Stronger than any telepath, especially Jean. Telepathy is a godly power, Storm may be able to destroy the world quicker but she isn't stronger than Jean Grey, Telekinesis and telepathy>>>>>weather and elemental control imo

What was right about him/her?

Lmao Storm actually has DC and AP with her powers. Telepathy has no potency you can not correlate it to kilotons, megatons and etc unless you're using psi bolts, and most of those attack the mind. The best feat I've seen with a psi bolt from the X-Paths is Emma leveling a building with hers. TK, on the other hand, can but Jean's best feat is not quantifiable as we don't know how powerful a white hole is only a theory.

Don't forget that telepaths can transfer their souls to different bodies, telepaths are godly.

@pyrofn: Just to point out just because someone is black does not mean they like other BP or their opposite just saying

@crimsonfoxfire: I was not speaking about people’s preferences, I was talking about how delusional this idea is that Storm being a strong black woman being a reason people don’t like her in a society where we have the hindsight of African American figures constantly speaking out for equality among the races and how we have better insight on people’s overall thought process in an age of technological communication through social media.

Storm, one of the most iconic X-Men, being disliked for being black? The notion is outright ridiculous. Not that it is impossible, but moreso improbable and not prevalent in the slightest.

@pyrofn: a portion of the comic community's reaction to the black panther movie says otherwise. Their reaction to storm is no different.

Your argument that we live in a different time is no different than racist white people saying racism is over because a black man became president.

So yes, there are people who dislike Storm, the most prolific black female heroine and x-woman, just because she's black.

@candymandy3366: storms powers have affected jean's effectiveness and strained her shields.

Your opinion that telepaths are "godly" is disputed simply by the fact that they die. Whether it be by other characters or other things, they die.

Huh. Never seen you before. Let’s give you a chance.

1) “a portion of the comic community's reaction to the black panther movie says otherwise. Their reaction to storm is no different.”

Unless your point is that the comicvine community is all or contains a majority of that portion of the comic community, this statement is irrelevant.

2) “Your argument that we live in a different time is no different than racist white people saying racism is over because a black man became president.”

Oh, so you wanna go down that route. No, that is not what my argument is saying. It’s giving credit to the people who actually tell the racist to screw off and speak out against them because of the racism that still does exist. I’m basing my very statements on real life people, of EVERY ethnicity, telling the government (small as city governments to the entire country) to change stupid procedures protecting said racists who take advantage of outdated systems.

But no, go on and say I’m standing with the racist bastards who use the accomplishments done by black people from the past as an excuse to try to dismiss my argument. I’m sure I wasn’t talking about the actual active majority doing what they can to make a difference because of the fact that it does exist.

3) “So yes, there are people who dislike Storm, the most prolific black female heroine and x-woman, just because she's black.”

And you think they are the reason Storm is hated on this site? Or that they make up the majority of Storm fans?

Uh-uh. You are not hiding behind racism as a way to excuse the actions of the past. Instead of stewing in your head, for once actually talk to these people and ask them what their problem is. It’s as simple as making a post,

”Hey, I haven’t been on here a lot, but I‘ve been noticing a certain stigma going around. Why is Storm hated on this site?”

What do you think the answer will be? Maybe you will be right and you will get the exact evidence you need to rub in my face and say that I don’t know what I’m talking about.

Go on. Do it. I double dog dare you.

@pyrofn: Storm fan tactic 163, when all else fails race bait.

The only thing I've done in my life longer then be an X-Men fan is be Black....and I don't like Storm.

She's always either over written to the point of being a Mary Sue or under written to the point of being scenery. I don't think she's a very good leader and I don't like that the flaw of her character (mostly that she leaves any team or person who she doesn't agree with) is never addressed despite her being constantly hailed as the X-Mens moral champion.....(like even Superman gets called out once in a while)

Ive felt these things since I started heavy into comics but all that never made me dislike her....I just wasn't a fan. The last 3 years of watching Storm fans attack other fandoms, franchises, characters and people whenever they don't get their way made me dislike Storm.

The worst of it all is this notion that any and all criticism of Storm, lack of focus by writers and support for other female heroes of any race or creed is somehow linked to a hatred of black people and more specifically strong women of color.

And while there may be some unspoken truth to the idea, it's clear that there's a vocal majority of the Storm fandom who are just abusing the race card for its shock value rather then admitting that their bias. Because even if every strong woman of color in Marvel was raised to the level that we all want our characters to be at, if Storm wasn't among them her base would continue to claim it was some conspiracy against her.

Storm fans, especially here on this site, are the #1 reason people don't like Storm in the fandom.

Those fights from a long time ago? Jean could always simple snap Storm's neck or break all of her bones.

@koays: The term Mary Sue being used against storm really is baffling. It makes me question how much of storm you have actually read. Storm has never officially left the team even while married she tried to maintain her status and be apart of the team. When she was needed she was there to the point that her husband was left without her help. Storm held the idea of the X-men whenever possible but I would say Nightcrawler is more the moral compass then she is. Also to say vocal majority is a joke since the problem you had was with 2 users who were banned. Most storm fans only attack when attacked. Also every bad apple we have exist in literally every single Fandom of a popular character so that's you not liking storm which is fine but don't try to push this motion that storm fans are extra abusive. Also anytime we get upset storm doesn't get pushed is very much justified. Also how that make sense if they pushed every single woman of color in comics and not the most popular one. That would be stupidest thing ever.

@pyrofn: That notion is not that ridiculous. Might not be as relevant now but to completely dismiss it is naive. Also my main point was just because someone is black does not mean they like BP Black culture Black characters and those are just the facts. So don't use it as a gotcha moment or a point

1) “That notion is not that ridiculous.”

I understand that. I am not really speaking in absolutes, but I’m speaking in the case of what both users mean, which is in reference to everyone on comicvine who claims to not like Storm.

2) “Might not be as relevant now but to completely dismiss it is naive”

I know. The context isn’t that I’m saying it doesn’t exist, the context is that I am saying it is unlikely for this particular situation.

While I won’t defend the ongoing stigma that Storm as a character should be hated because of her fans (because that is unfair), I will speak against the idea that everyone who has a problem with Storm or her fans amount to just racism and misogyny, which is what the users are implying by saying that “Storm is hated for being a powerful black woman.”

Its wrong, dismissive, and excusing the behavior that perpetuated this stigma to begin with.

3) “Also my main point was just because someone is black does not mean they like BP Black culture Black characters and those are just the facts.”

True, but in the same vain, disliking a character doesn’t automatically mean they dislike the culture or people in that culture.

Heck, @koays is living proof of my very point. A black man with an utter distaste for Storm as a character, but loves Rachel Summers, a powerful female character. And koays is hardly the only black man who cares less about Storm and loves a female character.

4) “So don't use it as a gotcha moment or a point”

You speak as if what I’m saying has no bearing on the problem at hand, when the very crux of this entire problem was based exactly around this statement,

”I am just not sure what the people's problem is with Storm. Some say it is due to her being a powerful black woman”

The problem was never whether racism and misogyny against black female characters exist. The issue is that that is the particular reason why comicvine users have a stigma against Storm.

@pyrofn: I don't think most people who dislike storm are racist though I think it is prevalent in certain cases. I agree that the automatic defense of racism is unfair. Sorry to say using koays as a example isn't really good yea I know he's a black man but Rachel being his favorite isn't really how to say a viable defense for your point not that I disagree though. As far as comicvine goes it's a mix of bad storm fans and certain people's own bigotry

@crimsonfoxfire: Don't waste your time questioning, I'm 2 degrees off of saying I've read everything X-Men.

Idk what so confusing about thinking that the woman who spent the 80s and early 2000s under Chris Claremont might be a Mary Sue. I mean before we even touch her own development ask yourself who not named Kitty got more focus, or even half the focus that Storm did in the original run.... You could need to take Wolverine and add him Colossus, Nightcrawler and Rogues stories together to get close to her focus and development.

As I've said before regarding her Mary Sueness:

***Eh Em She is a locksmith, thief, goddess, h2h master, "best leader", african queen, with perfect morals, who is loved by everyone, has unmatched beauty, is stronger then everyone, her love interest include Black Panther, Forge, Nightcrawler, Gambit, Wolverine, and Yuukio, Shes Jean's best friend, Psylockes best friend, Rogues best friend, Kitty's best friend, Magiks teacher, Bishops leader, Colossus' sister, Emma is jealous of her, her mind is untouchable, her powers unbeatable, Shes in Black Panther, Fantastic Four, the Avengers and the X-Men, everyones mother, sister, best friend or mentor and shes descended from African Sorcerers.***

As far as her leaving the team....its like a go to plot usually framed as *I disagree with this person or people, so I'm going out on my own to do the same thing but separately for a contrived reason that could've been discussed*

Break from Mags

Disbanding the team in the 80s

Leaves for Destiny diaries

Leaves the team during M-Day

Lying to Colossus about proto mutants because...reasons.

And then that time she asked herself what gave her the right to make her team of X-Men...a team of X-Men.

I'm not being ultra biased here, I just never enjoyed the fact that Storms go to line when starting a team seems to be "I suddenly disagree with everything your doing and have no faith in your judgment and so I must now try my best to get as far away from you as possible"

As far as the Vocal Majority part, it wasn't about Storm fans I had words with on this site, it was about the overall voice of the Storm Fandom on this site and others that use her color as the soul reason anyone would not like her....something I have a serious problem with since it not only devalues legit criticisms in favor of a polarizing topic, but it also offends me by creating this underlying tag of "if you don't like Storm and your Black you must hate yourself" or some other Black guilt trip that creates a greater problem when people outside the know look into our problem and see people throwing that line around about a fictional character.

I take it serious when someone says something is racist, so i think very little of people who use it as the go to term whenever they don't get their way.

********************************

Every Fandom has bad apples.....every Fandom does NOT have a section dedicated to attacking other fandoms whenever something good happens to them.

Every Fandom doesn't have wildly agreed on conspiracy theories about other characters hating or being jealous of or racist towards or other silly comments or whatever about their characters.

My thing here is that Pyrofn isn't wrong even if he isn't framing it well.

There are very real bigots on comicvine and in other fan spheres (one look at off topic here will tell you that).....and there are things that happen that you know have underlying causes, like Wonder Woman threads where she is attacked seemingly for existing.

But that said, Jean, Rachel, Sue Storm, Wanda, Storm, Captain Marvel, Psylocke, Raven, Rogue and Zatanna are the most commonly used characters on the site. In fact any one of them has had more threads about them in a given hour, week, month or year then Spiderman, Superman, Wolverine or Batman does on this site combined.female characters dominate heavily on this site.....are they mostly white? OVERWHELMINGLY, but they're fanbases I can assure you are beyond multicultural and multi gendered and multi-ethnic.

The reason Storm isn't as celebrated here is the actions, opinions and behavior of her fans yea, but if you want to count bigoted behavior or even things that can be perceived that way, then its in a far smaller supply then the next biggesr problem for her which is people trolling Storm fans because it's become part of the norm and the culture of the site.

I'm not a big fan of Storm, but I'm a massive fan of X-Men characters and want her to succeed and be relevant if only for that reason....but in rehabbing her image on this site, I see far more problems overcoming the damage done by people who tell you you have a secret evil reason for disliking her then by 1 or 2 inbreds who have decided to chase her around hating her for some bigoted reason.

what am i reading? lol