OMG idc if they are equalized goku still beats Naruto, goku is superior h2h, started when he was five or so with grandpa gohan then roshi a renowned master then popo and kami then kingkai. Goku always trains every chance he gets. Naruto will not stand a chance its the truth. Even with shadow clones again no chance, goku will decimate them because again superior h2h. his reflexes are sharper so he'll catch them before they strike. Goku can emit powerful shockwaves that pack enough punch to knock out the clones. A simple ki blast can cause an explosion to wipe them out. Come on now, rasegan vs Kamehameha? no contest at all. Oh and have we forgotten super saiyan, hell I believe kaioken is enough to handle Naruto.
Why did any1 bring up Kaio-ken or any other transformation when it doesn't really do anything for Goku as it doesn't increase his stats :O? It's not like it gives him more abilities whereas Naruto can only fly w/ his sosp mode, or allow himself to throw a rasenshuriken in SM/BM.
Still give it to Goku cuz he still has more experience than Naruto. Gokus a grown man who's been fighting for decades. Naruto is skilled bu still lacks the experience of Goku.
Why did any1 bring up Kaio-ken or any other transformation when it doesn't really do anything for Goku as it doesn't increase his stats :O? It's not like it gives him more abilities whereas Naruto can only fly w/ his sosp mode, or allow himself to throw a rasenshuriken in SM/BM.
Instant T makes this a cake walk for goku.Toneri easily destroyed hundreds of clones with casual energy blast before they could even do anything. Goku will have no problems at all with weak clones. Instant transmission makes it that more easier and clones become near worthless.
The gif you used itself shows quite a few clones reaching their target, contradicting the point made. Yes, he can take out some of the clones, but the rest will still wreck him.
Goku has danger/precog to. (that's a translation error in the goku/tien scan)
False. He has awareness of what is currently going on around him, not precog.
The context of tien scan is - after using solar flare, tien asks if goku is unable to see as well - he is saying he can sense things going on around him, not that he can sense danger faster or anything of the sort:
Learning a lot in his training, He's referring to this:
Not precog, sensing of what's going on around him.
Instant Transmission+Kamehameha+Precog=Naruto will not escape.
Faster danger sensing + equalized speed = Naruto escapes. Or uses a replacement technque. Or uses a energy attack to counter.
Naruto got grabbed plenty of times by kaguya who snuck up on him
False - the reason he got grabbed there is because she was affecting them with paralysis, not because she snuck up on them.
He has already dodged attacks which were teleported behind him:
This is what getting snuck up on looks like:
so let's not try and portray naruto as if he is untouchable, As if GOku teleportation is ineffective, ridiculous.
You're confusing "goku lacks the moveset to tag him, now that speeds are equalized" with "untouchable". The two are completely different.
Or goku can ragdoll naruto back and forth with IT punches if he wants.
Getting h2h against a frog kata user like naruto is the end for goku.
Chakra arms? lol goku can't do anything about charka? smh
the chakra arms:
can be used to do this: only far more efficiently:
Fighting blind? he can't guard himself when he can see. The usual naruto wank is in full force.
lol.
1. Limbo are clones from invisible world - that anything from this world cannot see or sense:
or naruto's eyes cannot see either:
But he still fights and defeats perfectly well just on sensing anyway:
or
2. Fighting when blinding light is cast - using just sensing:
Solar Flare+IT+Precog+Kamehameha=Dead naruto
Solar flare is useless, Kamehameha is dodged or countered with chakra blasts. Or simply replaced. And all that is, assuming goku will magically find the real one, not a clone.
As usual, our dear Juza uses his level 100 sneak skills to pseudo-address my points without tagging me. I wonder why. :)
Instant T makes this a cake walk for goku.Toneri easily destroyed hundreds of clones with casual energy blast before they could even do anything.
Hundreds of clones ? Before they could do anything ? lol
Toneri barely destroyed maybe a dozen clones using his TSB barrage and even your little gif clearly shows some of the clones reacting to his attacks and dodging them. The funny part though is that, unsurprisingly, you purposely left out the important purpose of that clone barrage : Naruto was using them as nothing more than a diversion for his real body to attack by surprise.
Goku will have no problems at all with weak clones. Instant transmission makes it that more easier and clones become near worthless.
But of course, you say so without actually explaining and we are supposed to believe you. lol
Goku has danger/precog to.
Haha, I really liked @princearagorn1's reply to this. Keep making up imaginary powers. :)
Instant Transmission+Kamehameha+Precog=Naruto will not escape.
Oh look more vague statements. How about you actually explain what Goku is supposed to do with his IT ? How is he going to find the real Naruto ? What imaginary precog you are talking about (lol) ? Why Naruto who reacted to teleportation attacks before wouldn't be able to escape ? Why the clones would just stand there and let Goku charge his Kamehameha and use IT like Cell did ? And plenty of other factors.
Naruto got grabbed plenty of times by kaguya who snuck up on him so let's not try and portray naruto as if he is untouchable, As if GOku teleportation is ineffective, ridiculous.
Plenty of time ? Sure, lets bring up that one instance where a full power Kaguya, someone much faster than Naruto, was able to grab him while he couldn't move and call it "plenty of time" (Knowing you you will probably bring an out of chakra Kaguya scan her to downplay her speed LOL) Let's also completely ignore the fact that Naruto actually noticed her behind him in this panel :
And while we are at it, why not forget all the other times where Naruto reacted to her and other people teleporting behind him :
And nobody said that Naruto is untouchable. There is a huge difference between saying that someone is untouchable and saying that Goku will not be able to deal with Naruto and all of his clones with stats equalized when they have precog to boot.
Or goku can ragdoll naruto back and forth with IT punches if he wants.
If someone is getting ragdolled H2H it will be Goku due to stats being equalized and Naruto having a better reach with chakra arms, a massive numerical advantage with his clones and hax like Kawazu Kumite.
Fighting blind? he can't guard himself when he can see.
Sure, lets ignore all the posted scans of him doing so and base our argument on a single fight against Kaguya who was much faster than himself before running out of chakra. I wonder if I should post all the instances where Goku got stomped by people faster than him and claim that he can't even react to one person he can see let alone a thousand of them, following your logic, because we all know that our dear Juza's logic is flawless. lol
The usual naruto wank is in full force.
Says the guy who keeps on bringing out of context feats and making up new powers for Goku lol
Chakra arms? lol goku can't do anything about charka? smh
Well isn't this a perfect counter ? lmao
Solar Flare+IT+Precog+Kamehameha=Dead naruto
None of which will actually work for reason stated above. But hey, let me give your logic a try :
"Solar flare ? lol Naruto cannot do anything about light ? smh"
"It ? lol naruto cannot do anything about teleportation ? Smh"
"Kamehameha ? lol Naruto cannot do anything about Ki ? SMH"
^Such perfect counters. 10/10 by our dear Juza's standards lmao
. . . you know. I don't like vanilla, and I won't fight Muda, I respect him, to the point of not antagonizing him. we all have our beliefs. and as I learned, fighting with a friend over fictional characters is not worth it.
@purple_d_dragon: Muda has been arguing this entire thread. He's probabaly sick of it.
Actually, yes I am. I was planning on leaving it at that, and only checked this thread because another debater I respect @princearagorn1 posted in it. But I could barely stand our dear juza's downplay and out of context scans that he basically directed at me without tagging me so I had to post again. :/
You guys seem really confident in Frog Kata despite the fact that Goku has been shown to rely on air currents and would likely pick up on the shift in pressure. Naruto's best bet is to stay hidden within his shadow clones. Goku would school him in h2h.
@juzacloud: I have no idea who any of your characters are. *shrug*
I'll probably make a respect thread for them later on today. It's the manga/anime called S-Cry-Ed. Short series, 44 chapters and 24 episodes. They may be a little too much for naruto, but I'll let you be the judge of that. I'll tag you whenever I'm done with the respect thread.
@juzacloud: I have no idea who any of your characters are. *shrug*
I'll probably make a respect thread for them later on today. It's the manga/anime called S-Cry-Ed. Short series, 44 chapters and 24 episodes. They may be a little too much for naruto, but I'll let you be the judge of that. I'll tag you whenever I'm done with the respect thread.
Sure. I'll read the respect thread, but I have no interest in the CaV.
@juzacloud: I haven't Haven't read that manga. No plans on reading it anytime soon. So it's not practical to cav against them.
I'm sure it's fair to say you've debating against characters you have no knowledge of, but hey.....you don't have to. If you wanna cav then I'll let you choose the characters.
Instant T makes this a cake walk for goku.Toneri easily destroyed hundreds of clones with casual energy blast before they could even do anything. Goku will have no problems at all with weak clones. Instant transmission makes it that more easier and clones become near worthless.
The gif you used itself shows quite a few clones reaching their target, contradicting the point made. Yes, he can take out some of the clones, but the rest will still wreck him.
Goku has danger/precog to. (that's a translation error in the goku/tien scan)
False. He has awareness of what is currently going on around him, not precog.
The context of tien scan is - after using solar flare, tien asks if goku is unable to see as well - he is saying he can sense things going on around him, not that he can sense danger faster or anything of the sort:
Learning a lot in his training, He's referring to this:
Not precog, sensing of what's going on around him.
Instant Transmission+Kamehameha+Precog=Naruto will not escape.
Faster danger sensing + equalized speed = Naruto escapes. Or uses a replacement technque. Or uses a energy attack to counter.
Naruto got grabbed plenty of times by kaguya who snuck up on him
False - the reason he got grabbed there is because she was affecting them with paralysis, not because she snuck up on them.
He has already dodged attacks which were teleported behind him:
This is what getting snuck up on looks like:
so let's not try and portray naruto as if he is untouchable, As if GOku teleportation is ineffective, ridiculous.
You're confusing "goku lacks the moveset to tag him, now that speeds are equalized" with "untouchable". The two are completely different.
Or goku can ragdoll naruto back and forth with IT punches if he wants.
Getting h2h against a frog kata user like naruto is the end for goku.
Chakra arms? lol goku can't do anything about charka? smh
the chakra arms:
can be used to do this: only far more efficiently:
Fighting blind? he can't guard himself when he can see. The usual naruto wank is in full force.
lol.
1. Limbo are clones from invisible world - that anything from this world cannot see or sense:
or naruto's eyes cannot see either:
But he still fights and defeats perfectly well just on sensing anyway:
or
2. Fighting when blinding light is cast - using just sensing:
Solar Flare+IT+Precog+Kamehameha=Dead naruto
Solar flare is useless, Kamehameha is dodged or countered with chakra blasts. Or simply replaced. And all that is, assuming goku will magically find the real one, not a clone.
Holy crap I knew Goku got taken out by a laser but I had no idea it was in his friggin SSGSS form!? SMH that laser destroys the solar system apparently -__-
I'll admit I'm a bit rusty where it comes to Naruto abilities, but doesn't Naruto's Shadow Clone Technique work by evenly distributing his Chakra among each of the clones? How is that going to help when the two have equalised stats? there will just be 100 clones that are all 100 times weaker than Goku. I thought this move usually worked because Naruto had waay more Chakra than his opponents?
Holy crap I knew Goku got taken out by a laser but I had no idea it was in his friggin SSGSS form!? SMH that laser destroys the solar system apparently -__-
Whis explained it - the reason it happened is because goku let his guard down. Without ki, his body is not all that durable, but with ki, it is. Same laser hitting him when he's fighting seriously wouldn't even matter.
Holy crap I knew Goku got taken out by a laser but I had no idea it was in his friggin SSGSS form!? SMH that laser destroys the solar system apparently -__-
Whis explained it - the reason it happened is because goku let his guard down. Without ki, his body is not all that durable, but with ki, it is. Same laser hitting him when he's fighting seriously wouldn't even matter.
@amendment50: that's dumb. that means in goku's strongest form I can walk to him and kick him in the nuts and call it a day. Think about the weakness that was just introduced into dragonball and the inconsistencies brought with it.
@heatforce: Theres nothing inconsistent about it. The DB universe has made it pretty clear that their durability is only at its high levels when their guard is up. Remember how Goku vs Vegeta ended in the Buu saga?
@amendment50: sure but vegeta is at least around the same power level. I still need to see the movie in all honesty but eventually this stuff is going to work it's way into battles and make dbz look like a joke. Okay how about this ssgss goku vs. Batman, rule: goku's guard is down. See how dumb this is or am I missing the genius of this PIS? Meh whatever it just seems really dumb. Like couldn't frieza have done it at least?
@precrisisbardock: I agree Goku trains a lot more, but Naruto has trained his physical body and trained for techniques, and transformations. He started training from a younger age than Goku. But that wouldn't matter in a fight as quality>quantity. Naruto has gotten better training as of terms of skill.
WHAT?? Goku trained almost every moment he was not sleeping, or eating, since the day he was born
@amendment50: meh it's whatever at this point. Resurrection of F will be retconed just like BoG. It better be anyway otherwise the feats goku showed in the anime/manga vs resurrection of F will not compute.
Goku teleports to some planet, makes a genki dama for about 2 days, teleports in a blows naruto along with any clones planet or solar system they are in.
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