Goku vs Naruto, equalized stats

Goku is a plain fighter if everything is equalized i believe naruto should take this he is far more tactically aware fought too many opponent and eventhough he doesn't train as much his train has more variety/

Solar Flare -> Kaioken ->Instant Transmission ->Kamehameha GG.

Goku still wins

Naruto has way better hax, with everything equal he wins.

@love: He has no Gudodama so.... Magnet realease hax?

That's the only hax he has lmao.

Goku instant transmission kamehameha ftw. Also he's a lot more experienced than Naruto being on par with the god of destruction in h2h predicting what move a guy will use who's skipping time.

Instant Transmission Kamehameha is something Naruto has no answer to.

Naruto spam clones up his arse.

Also I just thought of something Naruto can't fly Goku could fly out of the reach of any of Naruto's techniques.

Goku > Naruto

This will never change.

Naruto can fly.

@thedarkpaladin: How fast and how maneuverable is he in the air can he's just fly straight up into the sky?.

@iusemycajonas:

Sure that's all he has, lets go with that.

This is why I don't debate in DB threads smh.

@love: Haha so you whine instead of actually saying anything.

What other hax does he have that will be effective in this battle?

He was able to match Kaguya's aerial combat at one point.

Gallery

Kaguya was fast enough to react to a tele blitz under increased gravity.

It's the same kind of flight So6P Madara was using.

OP said current versions. Goku cannot lose while using Kaioken. The only reason it was causing such a huge stress on him was because SSGSS was already taking a toll on him to maintain. His base form at this point will have no issue maintaining Kaioken alone.

Since stats are equalized and transformations do nothing in this fight Goku has no reason to use any SSJ forms.

How fast is totally irrelevant in this fight. Every stats were equalised. So speed, durability and strength are all equalised in this thread. So I don't understand why people are so stuck up with Goku is stronger or faster like arguments?

Anyway according to the given scenario, Naruto stomps with thousands of clones.

I like Naruto about a hundred times better. Does that count?

@thedarkpaladin: Alright I take my statement back Goku flight wouldn't be a advantage.

@great_black_star: I asked that because I was unsure how Naruto's flight worked example Kenshiro can levitate but can't maneuver to the same degree as Goku because of the nature of his technique.

@great_black_star:

How fast is totally irrelevant in this fight. Every stats were equalised. So speed, durability and strength are all equalised in this thread. So I don't understand why people are so stuck up with Goku is stronger or faster like arguments?

Anyway according to the given scenario, Naruto stomps with thousands of clones.

Technically, Goku can still amplify his power 10 or 20× using Kaio-Ken, whoch should be more than enough to deal with the clones.

@great_black_star: stats are equal, but Goku still has kkx20. theres no way naruto will be able to tag Goku with kkx20. a simple ki wave is all goku needs to take care of the clones.

@iusemycajonas: Read what everyone is posting? You don't need me when there are literally 471 other post.

Besides Im doing a CAV right now and focusing on that, when Im done i'll come back and debate more on this.

It does for a lot of people in this thread lol

OP clearly mentioned any transformation won't boost any stats I think he intend to make it a battle wwhere both have same stats no matter what, and fight with their tactics and skills only.

But even if Goku can amp himself with Kaioken, then Naruto can amp himself with SM which increase his stats far more than just 10 or 20 times.

Problem there is Sage Mode is a transformation. Kaioken is a technique. The clones have never been as powerful as the user and it's just Naruto wasting his chakra to create things that will be one shot.

Naruto needs to have an answer to an IT Kamehameha blitz or a Kaioken blitz for this to be considered an even fight.

Kaio-Ken isn't a transformation, it's a technique. OP only limited transformations. What is Sage Mode's multiplier?

Naruto is a much better fighter, much better story, and lives in a stronger verse.

@jaybles:How is SM a transformation? Its a technique bro.

Anyway as I have mentioned earlier I don't think OP's intention was for any of the fighter to have stat advantage in this fight.

I take back my vote, remove Kio Ken and Naruto wins, without it's a stomp. Goku can multiple by 10 or 20 and it's a stomp.

Much closer without it.

You would need a bit of calculation there as manga state only multiple times.

There was a frog statue of Gamabunta's size(which was mentioned as students which failed to control sage chakra). Naruto from not being able to even move it to lifting it in incomplete sage mode. With complete sage mode, PA the tiny toad was able to lift the same statue with just one hands.

Thats a multiplier above 20 times.

There isn't any need for a calculation regarding Kaio-Ken. The manga explicitly states that it multiplies your power:

In addition, Goku was only able to gain an advantage over Vegeta after using a ×3 boost. Goku's power level at the time was 8,000, while Vegeta was 18,000.

There's also the time Goku was fighting Captain Ginyu on Namek. The official guidebooks put his base power level at 90,000:

Yet, after using Kaio-Ken, his power jumped to 180,000:

And lifting the frog statue is impressive, but there's really no way to accurately calculate a multiplier from that alone, unless we know

• Base Naruto's lifting strength.
• How much the statue weighs.
• If Sage Mode increases all stats equally.

Not to mention fan calcs aren't canon, and are often at times unreliable.

It was always pushed as a partial transformation during the series. The negative effect of it was if you failed to master it you would fully transform into a toad or snake. The process was changing the users body so they would accept natural energy from the world around them.

Even if you want to push SM as a technique like Kaioken (which I'm fine with) the multipliers are nowhere near what Kaioken is able to do. Where as SM is a one time increase, Kaioken can continue to be increased as long as the users body can take it.

@thedarkpaladin said:

@great_black_star said:

@thedarkpaladin said:

@great_black_star said:

@thedarkpaladin said:

@great_black_star:

How fast is totally irrelevant in this fight. Every stats were equalised. So speed, durability and strength are all equalised in this thread. So I don't understand why people are so stuck up with Goku is stronger or faster like arguments?

Anyway according to the given scenario, Naruto stomps with thousands of clones.

Technically, Goku can still amplify his power 10 or 20× using Kaio-Ken, whoch should be more than enough to deal with the clones.

OP clearly mentioned any transformation won't boost any stats I think he intend to make it a battle wwhere both have same stats no matter what, and fight with their tactics and skills only.

But even if Goku can amp himself with Kaioken, then Naruto can amp himself with SM which increase his stats far more than just 10 or 20 times.

Kaio-Ken isn't a transformation, it's a technique. OP only limited transformations. What is Sage Mode's multiplier?

You would need a bit of calculation there as manga state only multiple times.

There was a frog statue of Gamabunta's size(which was mentioned as students which failed to control sage chakra). Naruto from not being able to even move it to lifting it in incomplete sage mode. With complete sage mode, PA the tiny toad was able to lift the same statue with just one hands.

Thats a multiplier above 20 times.

There isn't any need for a calculation regarding Kaio-Ken. The manga explicitly states that it multiplies yours power:

In addition, Goku was only able to gain an advantage over Vegeta after using a ×3 boost. Goku's power level at the time was 8,000, while Vegeta was 18,000.

There's also the time Goku was fighting Captain Ginyu on Namek. The official guidebooks put his base power level at 90,000:

Yet, after using Kaio-Ken, his power jumped to 180,000:

And lifting the frog statue is impressive, but there's really no way to accurately calculate a multiplier from that alone, unless we know

• Base Naruto's lifting strength.
• How much the statue weighs.
• If Sage Mode increases all stats equally.

Not to mention fan calcs aren't canon, and are often at times unreliable.

I know DBZ have some ridiculous and nonsensical indicator called power level and fortunately Naruto don't have such things which will make the story nonsensical.

Anyway, sage mode was also stated to increase overall stats.

This increase in stats allow Naruto from being a guy hurt by kunai to completely tanking rods from Pain, from not even able to move a statue to lifting it., from a character mock for how slow he is to completely blitzing pain leader of Akatsuki.

Transformation happens to people with incomplete sage mode users and Naruto has perfected sage mode so he don't transform at all.

And if we go by technical as Naruto has no power level thingy, SM boost one's stats far more than just 20 times.

And Naruto currently can go SM at will and can maintained it as long as he wants, not to mentioned he can let Kurama do the natural energy gathering he did against Sasuke and literally stomp Goku there.

@great_black_star:

I know DBZ have some ridiculous and nonsensical indicator called power level and fortunately Naruto don't have such things which will make the story nonsensical.

No, Naruto has ridiculous nonsensical ass pulls for the most part (gotta love shonen), but that much is irrelevant. The source material is proof that Kaio-Ken multiplies stats.

Anyway, sage mode was also stated to increase overall stats.

This increase in stats allow Naruto from being a guy hurt by kunai to completely tanking rods from Pain, from not even able to move a statue to lifting it., from a character mock for how slow he is to completely blitzing pain leader of Akatsuki.

Fair enough on the stats, but there is still no way to accurately determine the multiplier for Sage Mode, without using non-canon fan calcs. To sum it up, there is zero canonical evidence to support it being a greater multiplier than Kaio-Ken ×10 or 20.

@marczaddy: if you want to.

Actually I didn't.

Goku can create arms as well, and was trained by basically the greatest masters from his universe and you can just read all DB it is all about h2h if you may ask me. Still no counter to solar flare+IT+kamehameha and kaioken blitz.

@brobs: Really? You're debating against Naruto without knowing what he can do? Why should I continue this? You can't debate against someone without knowing what their side can do. How about inform yourself, then come and debate this.

He can't create as many arms as Naruto, and Naruto can still punch with Natural Energy. He doesn't even need arms. Goku wouldn't be able to avoid it either, and lose H2H with equal stats. Skill can be overcome with numbers, and multi arm NE punches.

Naruto has about 7 senses. Blinding is already proven not to work because of evil intent sensing. His Natural Energy sensing would still pick up Gok'su Ki. Not to mention Goku doesn't even use that anymore, and even if he did, he wouldn't use it as a first resort. By the time he tried, clones would be overwhelming him, as that is Naruto's starting move.

Not to mention, Goku still wouldn't be able to locate the real Naruto, as his clones are literally equal to him in every sensable way. So, it still wouldn't work.

I'm not seeing a counter to a 100 clone bumrush, that Goku couldn't avoid. They would deal serious damage with equal stats, and let Naruto end it with a any Rasenshuriken variant, or a TBB. Not to mention this Naruto carries TSB, which he uses very well I'm H2H. Goku would be at a disadvantage, because they would disintegrate him on contact.

A few pages back a Naruto debater was wrecking everyone in here.

I'm dying it was @princearagorn1 and @mudamudamuda

@never_give_up: That was some good times.

Indeed.

1 out of these 3 is an opinion the other two is factually wrong lol.

Still Goku. No matter how much you want him to lose.

Goku won on page 1 and he wins on page 10

Y'all are saying that but look through the entire thread lol.

If KioKen is a counted as a transformation, than Naruto wins. If not than Goku.

With stats equal, all Goku has in energy attacks and teleportation.

Naruto has teleportion like speed with body flicker, he has thousands of clones, and cellular level attacks, not to mention the Harem jutsu that would prop one shot Goku.

@marczaddy: Naruto never summon 100 clones in the first moment as well...

And yes I don't know everything from Naruto but I do know some, and you clearly don't know about dbz as you want to argue goku h2h when basically 99% of DB were based in Martial arts.

Even if he can't be blind this is non factor IT and kamehameha is enough. Also still no counter to kaioken.

@brobs: He does. He did so against Mizuki, Kakashi, Haku, Kimmimaro, Basically throughout the whole Chunin Exams. And it goes on and on. It was very viable, and likely strategy. One that will turn this battles favor to Naruto, Goku has no counter. Not to mention, he still has TSB that Goku can't survive.

I don't reason to believe anything you regarding comparisons. You aren't even aware of Naruto's full abilities.

How? He can't be found with IT. Goku will just sense 100 Narutos, with no difference in energy. He wouldn't know who to jump to, he'd have to randomly guess. Getting it wrong will lead to his downfall. Don't believe me? Ask Neji how it worked for him.

I dislike Naruto immensely but anybody who think Goku can beat Naruto with equalized stats is clueless. Never thought I would argue for Naruto this way. Naruto negative difficulty. 10000 shadow clone + bijudama rasenshuriken = dead goku