Goku vs Naruto, equalized stats

If stats are equal, then goku doesn't have any chance of winning this fight.

That's what I've been thinking.

@emperorthanos: Naruto starts battle with 1000 clones, good luck trying to beat him with Taijutsu. If Taijutsu was so strong Might Guy would've finished Madara and ended the story. Naruto chars can regenerate (which is seen as godly in DBZ, just look at cell and buu)

He still had the one half of Kurama in him. You don't honestly believe that Naruto can match Sasuke with sage mode alone. While Sasuke didn't exactly tap into all of the bijuu's chakra.

I have read the manga. So I do know what you are talking about.

I didn't even mention anything about Goku winning. You wanted to know what Goku could copy so I just said he could copy his taijutsu

Funny, No one has bothered to challenge or combat anything I said.

This simply underlines the statements from Naruto fans.

Goku wins this rather easily.

@never_give_up: Indeed, seems pretty clear to me that the OP wanted to keep all stats equal regardless of kaioken, super saiyan, sage mode, KCM, etc. Without the benefit of superior stats, goku isn't bringing much of anything to this fight. Goku can't really counter 100+ Naruto clones.

Goku still wins, he can fly, he has kaioken so his stats are still much better, he's on another level entirely in terms of fighting skill and martial arts skill, he has much more effective/destructive energy attacks, he can sense ki/chakra so clones are useless against him, he can become SSJGOD so his presence won't be perceived unless you're a god as well, he can teleport, he has WAY more experience in fighting in general(kid goku already had much more fighting experience than teenage naruto, and against all sorts of enemies such as the "red ribbon" army, giant robots, magic users, martial artists, giant beasts/dinosaurs, etc.), they used to say that "the same attack never works 3 times against goku" because he also uses his head alot when fighting and he surely does so more than naruto, he can read and predict your next moves, etc.

@vermillion0831: A "100+ clones" would reduce Naruto's power.

What do you even mean that Goku can't counter clones?, Those aren't wood clones. All it takes is one punch and they will be destroyed.

That's seriously nothing.

@hudyman: Naruto spams clones all the time. It's not like his stats are equally divided amongst them; his overall power mostly remains unchanged. So, how is goku going to fight a 100+ clones with stats all equal to him? Also, if Naruto is in sage mode, then his attacks can land even if they don't directly hit goku as seen in the fight against pain.

@vermillion0831: Naruto barely does Frog Kumite, Clones can be popped with a Kiai easily, Goku can sense the slightest change in the atmosphere so I don't see how a lackluster h2h combatant comparing to him will be able to hit him much without using Frog Kumite, which he barely uses and hasn't been shown to spam.

@precrisisbardock: You're alive?!

@vermillion0831:

The reason naruto is able to "spam" clones is because of his ridiculously large chakra capacity. That he has because of the Kyuubi. It's clearly stated everywhere that when a person uses a shadow clone, their chakra and stats are equalised among them. That's absolutely perfect in a normal scenario but in a scenario where a person has an equalised amount of energy as their opponent, it would be rather stupid to divide that up to only make yourself weaker.

It's like if you were up against a boxer who had the exact same stats as you but you had the ability to multiply yourself and in doing so, your multiplication would reduce your stats. It isn't a drastic change but punches and attacks taken from your enemy would hurt more due to the lack of your full strength. That's the exact same scenario. Fair enough, If naruto used one, two or even three clones there wouldn't be a large difference as the clones would be somewhat durable and he would still be in perfect fighting condition but a hundred plus clones? Goku would only need to punch them once and it's game over.

Also what do you mean that naruto's attacks can land if he doesn't hit Goku? That makes no sense.

@amendment50: In the flesh!

@hudyman: chakra is spread out amongst the clones, not his overall stats like strength, speed and durability. Also what I mentioned about landinga blow without a direct hit is a benefit of sage mode as seen during battle against pain. In that fight Naruto missed one of the pain bodies but the nature energy around him still connected with the blow. I'm not near a computer so can't post the image; maybe someone else can, or you'll have to reread the pain fight to know what I'm talking about.

@precrisisbardock: I'm not a 100% sure, but the way the nature energy connects with the target without a direct hit might be a benefit of using sage mode in general (and maybe so6p mode too) and not just when using frog kumite. Also, it's really not that simple for goku to just blow away all the clones and just fight the real Naruto. Naruto has much more versatility than goku. You seem to be really oversimplifying things. Under normal circumstances, goku wins easily by virtue of superior stats. I don't think anyone would seriously argue otherwise, but with equalized stats, goku really doesn't have much of a chance here. Don't forget about spamming clones and throwing dozens of rasenshurikens or tailed beast bombs from a distance.

Goku he can use techniques like solar flare to blind then decapitate naruto

@vermillion0831: Pops frog taught him specifically frog kumite to do that, we never see it happen anywhere else. Goku can always sense the Ki of the real Naruto despite the clones because that Naruto will be stronger, but even if he does the Neji tactic he can still sense emotions and the slightest change in the atmosphere with the superior h2h skill he can easily take down clones in h2h and with afterimage and instant transmission he can dodge tailed beast bombs and rasenshurikens.

In the end it comes down to skill and experience which Goku dominates in, Naruto's versatility is all easily countered, the only thing he has going for him is clones which all have low durability.

@omnipotence88: that wouldn't work. Goku doesn't start with techniques like that in character and sage mode precog and danger sensing make that irrelevant anyway. Naruto was able to fight madara's limbo clone through sensing alone.

@precrisisbardock: It's true that the nature energy thing wasn't shown outside of pain fight, but it's still something apart of his skill set.

And goku will not be able to sense the real Naruto. The shadow clone jutsu spreads chakra out evenly amongst the clones. Furthermore, taking down the clones won't be easy despite durability. Each clone will have the advantage of sage mode precog and danger sensing. That combined with equal stats makes goku's "superior h2h" skills less of a threat.

Also you mentioned something about after images. Leaving after images is usually only possible when you are faster than your opponent or faster than they can react or see. Since speed is equalized here, reaction speed necessarily has to be increased too. I doubt goku will be leaving after images, Naruto will be able to follow him just fine.

@karsa_toblakai:

and its still an opinion lol.

Point? I said it wasn't my opinion.

he does have a point that even DBZ has an incredible amount of Asspull. Kami being able to blow up the moon, but being fodder, piccolo blowing up the moon, and even Vegeta blowing up the planet when introduced, but in the actual fight not being even close to the powerful for some reason?

Kami never blew up the moon, nor was he ever said to have moon busting capabilities. The rest of what you said here isn't an asspull... That's like saying a high tier Naruto character can't have a fight in the Leaf Village without destroying it, since high tier Naruto characters can easily destroy mountains, yet we have seen Naruto fight in the village during the Last and Boruto.

Freeza can blow up planet vegeta, but to blow up planet namek it takes exactly 5 minutes.

Freeza intentionally held back his power when he destroyed Namek's core. He wanted to fight Goku at 100%

A spirit bomb couldn't kill frieza, but fodderized Kid Buu.

...Are you being serious? lol

The Spirit Bomb Goku used against Buu was far more powerful. He gathered energy from literally everyone on the planet.

gohan being able to punch cell so hard he vomited up Android 18. but being able to become "perfect" cell again, when the whole point was established that he needed both androids to be perfect.

While this is the only thing you mentioned that can qualify as an asspull, it still pales in comparison to some of the shit in Naruto.

That was true but that was difference then Pre-amped that he was talking about. he was talking pre-juubidara madara. one eyed madara right after he got resurrected.

I know, but that wasn't what i was referring to in post #516.

Wrong, before the amp, when sasuke tried to "blitz" madera, he ended up on the ground with his own sword in his stomach, and this was Before madera even went Juubi, this was one eyed normal alive madara. without the amp, sasuke would have been curb stomped by juubidara.

...You're thinking of the wrong amp. Sasuke didn't absorb the Bijuu chakra until his fight with Naruto.

and he has shown both during the Pain fight and the sasuke fight, he can have clones stand by in a different location do the sitting for him, he even fought 6 opponents at one, while having 2 clones gathering chakra to be summoned, something that the sage toads said they had never even comprehended doing before.

And none of that matters since he is fighting against Goku here. You know, the person who can sense where you are? I'm sure he would find it odd that someone who feels just like Naruto is sitting in the distance doing nothing.

And Naruto had clones back at Mount Myobuko sitting under the waterfall before he even came back to the Leaf. That's called using prep to your advantage. Too bad he doesn't have prep here.

Physical numbers yes. look back to the pain fight, without Sage amp, naruto couldn't even keep up with Pain, it took everything just to block his punches. As soon as he was sage amped he not only could keep up, He could Quickly out speed and over power Pain.

That still doesn't prove Sage Mode multiplies his power greater than 10 fold, though...

My entire point regarding Sage Mode is that we can only assume how much stronger it makes you, since there is no stated multiplier, and often at times, the increase doesn't seem consistent.

Another example. is the Frog statue. Before Sage Amp naruto couldn't even move it a single inch. With half a slight sage amp(only 1 eye was even shown to have the sage markings, meaning he wasnt completely mastering it at that point) was able to lift it pretty easily.

He had the marking in both eyes, actually, and it's not like he effortlessly lifted the statue either way.

Gallery

@thedarkpaladin:

I think you are too ignorant at this point?

Or you just don't want to accept my arguments?

Look things work like this,

Base Naruto<<<SM Naruto<<<<<rikudo SM Naruto.

All Base Naruto can do is throw a regular rasenshuriken at best. But with rikudo SM he can effortless crack Shinju, same shinju which has tanked Juubidama. And you are saying that doesn't prove SM doesn't increase his stats even 10X? WTH.

And no absorbing more senjutsu doesn't harm Naruto at all and he has shown he can handle all senjutsu chakra above the ground at once no problem.

Anyway lets agree to disagree, I know your record, I wouldn't want to get into debating with a wall.

With a buff like that Naruto can easily outclass Sasuke in DC department but winning a fight is a different story, which I think if Sasuke mastered his rinnegan he will beat Naruto regardless of how much buff he gots.

@never_give_up: Naruto characters are much more strategic in general. They have to be in order to defeat their opponents. In DragonBall Z, everyone fights the exact same way. There really isn't a need to be that strategic. In Dragonball Z, you beat your opponent by overpowering them. In Naruto, 9/10 you beat your opponent by outsmarting them. This is why with stats equalized I give it to Naruto. He has a much more versatile moveset, and is much better at thinking on his feet than Goku is. Now of course without stats equalized, Naruto would'nt even be a little bit of a challenge for Goku. But with the rules set by the OP, this should be a close fight in Naruto's favor.

@great_black_star: you don't think that now that Naruto has both halves of Kurama, he should be stronger than Sasuke. But I guess now Boruto is probably the strongest Naruto character.

@great_black_star:

I think you are too ignorant at this point?

It probably has more to do with you being unable to comprehend my posts, but ok.

Or you just don't want to accept my arguments?

Your arguments aren't backed up by anything factual. You're just flaunting your opinion without showing any actual proof. Sage Mode multiplying your stats over 100× is a ridiculous thing to say even for a known Naruto wanker.

Look things work like this,

Base Naruto<<<SM Naruto<<<<<rikudo SM Naruto.

What's your point? Hagoromo's chakra amped him by a ridiculous amount.

All Base Naruto can do is throw a regular rasenshuriken at best. But with rikudo SM he can effortless crack Shinju, same shinju which has tanked Juubidama. And you are saying that doesn't prove SM doesn't increase his stats even 10X? WTH.

That still isn't proof of Sage Mode being greater than Kaio-Ken ×10. Start debating with facts you can prove instead of biased opinion.

And no absorbing more senjutsu doesn't harm Naruto at all and he has shown he can handle all senjutsu chakra above the ground at once no problem.

Who said anything about Senjutsu harming Naruto? He still can only draw from a finite source. It isn't just some no limits fallacy you're making it out to be.

Anyway lets agree to disagree, I know your record, I wouldn't want to get into debating with a wall.

Yeah.... seeing as how you're the person who claims Naruto can breath in space, and that lightning in the Naruto verse is much faster than real world lightning, I think that's a good idea...

@thedarkpaladin:Ignore

Concession accepted.

I don't think Having full kyuub or every bijuu will have much effect against a rinnegan master. Prime example Momoshiki.

@thedarkpaladin:

Just to show how ignorant you are about the character you are supporting in this discussion. Kami DID blow up the moon. As soon as i am home will upload some hand taken pictures of my own personal manga volume showing it. As i am on my cell phone at the moment

Kami never blew up the moon. Please find those pictures that don't exist, because it's pretty clear from your first post towards me that you have never actually read the manga. I would be surprised if you actually read Naruto, to be honest.

@karsa_toblakai: Don't bother bro, debating with paladin is like debating with a wall. He has such a consistent record

Come back when you have an argument.

Wait...why are people arguing sage mode, that's a transformation, unlike kk.

@midnightdragon18: Because he can still use it? Every transformation is accessible, they just won't boost stats. Even though, technically, it's not a transformation at all.

But he didn't even spam it in the pain fight, and you can't rely on it for a 1HKO.

He can still sense intentions like with Future Trunks, if the real Naruto decides to hang back Goku will be able to sense that and figure him out after a bit.

Sage mode prcog is incredibly slight and Goku has AOE Kiai and superior h2h combat skills

In Dragon Ball the afterimage technique is not just "leaving afterimages" it's a literal technique. Hence why it works on enemies that they fight on par with.

@marczaddy: my bad, read the op wrong.

Naruto still doesn't have a counter for kk.

@never_give_up: I won't be doing much today besides celebrating mother's day, so you can explain to me in thorough detail why you believe Naruto wins and we can debate from there.

@stormking1221: I'm not debating I've already been convinced from the previous pages. You can look over them and try to prove them wrong if you'd like.

@midnightdragon18: Uh, yeah he does. 1. It won't boost any stats. 2. Goku won't start with that, he'll try to gauge Naruto's power first. 3. Goku can't kill them all before KK burns him out, and he'll still never find the real Naruto.

I really don't see Naruto losing this, at all. Goku's accepted win over Naruto spawns from him operating on a higher level and his huge stat advantage. With those two things nonexistent, Goku holds no advantages, while Naruto has several. Clones, numerous hax, plain old versatile attacks, and so on. With this, Naruto has this in the bag. Easily, almost.

ready for you too look like the biggest idiot on this site? haha. this 100% shows you have clearly never read the series. ANY true DB manga fan would remember these. i could just post scans but posting pics of my own manga from my own collection makes this so much better after all the shit you talk haha. check the next post in about 3 minutes

Naruto- while Goku seems to rely more on brute power and martial prowess, Naruto has that (equalized stats) as well as his whole Ninjutsu kit, which should be enough to take down Goku.

Good Fight Bro. Sucks to realize how ignorant you can be isn't it. Try to tell me I have never read the series, when i have every volume of both series.

But nice try. Your "debate" skills only work if you have actually seen/read the series.

@karsa_toblakai said:

@thedarkpaladin said:

@great_black_star said:

@karsa_toblakai: Don't bother bro, debating with paladin is like debating with a wall. He has such a consistent record

Come back when you have an argument.

@thedarkpaladin said:

@karsa_toblakai said:

@thedarkpaladin:

Just to show how ignorant you are about the character you are supporting in this discussion. Kami DID blow up the moon. As soon as i am home will upload some hand taken pictures of my own personal manga volume showing it. As i am on my cell phone at the moment

Kami never blew up the moon. Please find those pictures that don't exist, because it's pretty clear from your first post towards me that you have never actually read the manga. I would be surprised if you actually read Naruto, to be honest.

Good Fight Bro. Sucks to realize how ignorant you can be isn't it. Try to tell me I have never read the series, when i have every volume of both series.

But nice try. Your "debate" skills only work if you have actually seen/read the series.

hahahahahahaha

Is it too late for me to place money against you?

@karsa_toblakai said:

@thedarkpaladin said:

@great_black_star said:

@karsa_toblakai: Don't bother bro, debating with paladin is like debating with a wall. He has such a consistent record

Come back when you have an argument.

@thedarkpaladin said:

@karsa_toblakai said:

@thedarkpaladin:

Just to show how ignorant you are about the character you are supporting in this discussion. Kami DID blow up the moon. As soon as i am home will upload some hand taken pictures of my own personal manga volume showing it. As i am on my cell phone at the moment

Kami never blew up the moon. Please find those pictures that don't exist, because it's pretty clear from your first post towards me that you have never actually read the manga. I would be surprised if you actually read Naruto, to be honest.

Good Fight Bro. Sucks to realize how ignorant you can be isn't it. Try to tell me I have never read the series, when i have every volume of both series.

But nice try. Your "debate" skills only work if you have actually seen/read the series.

Dammit I was too late. You just made a complete fool of yourself. That's not Kami lmao.

@rexorr: Looks like you skipped everything else that was posted in this thread.

Naruto loses.

@karsa_toblakai:While I'm on your side in agreeing that Goku wins this; That isn't Kami.

What exactly did I miss? Sorry, didn't want to read a 5000 word wall.

@johncena69swag:

Are you serious??? this is "jackie Chun" who reveals himself as kami. are you saying NONE of you guys have even seen the series now? LMAO want more scans?

@karsa_toblakai said:

Kami

Master Roshi, AKA "Kamesennin"

It's looking like you're the one who's never seen the series dude

I almost want to let this go on, but I can't do that to you lol. For your sake, please don't try to argue this any further. This is Kami:

You're misremembering Jackie Chun was Roshi, Kami was masquerading as Hero in the 23rd WMAT.